Show me where?
Where in the word does it say that God is calling for Prophets and or Apostles? What about the scripture in Hebrews 11:1. God is all that we should need and want. I believe that as long as we have the Word of God then no one can tell us anything new or different. Jesus chose 12 and eleven became apostles, he then chose Paul to become the twelth. There are no more and can be no more. Let us stick to preaching and teaching Jesus and the Salvation that he shed his blood to bring.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene on
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My brother, you missed ALOT of scriptures here!
-Acts 1 says that Matthias was the 12th Apostle selected, not Paul
-Acts 13 says Barnabas was an Apostle that worked side by side with Paul for a time.
-Acts 15 says Judas & Silas were both Apostles & Prophets selected to do a work. They also were not of the original 12
-Acts says Agabus was a Prophet that prophesied to Apostle Paul.
-In 1st Corinthians 15 Paul said that the 12 say HIM, then 500 people, then JAMES AND ALL THE REST OF THE CURRENT APOSTLES, then himself, leaving plenty of room to say that there were more than 12 Apostles.
-In 2nd Corinthians 8:23, Paul called Titus a "messenger" using the Greek word "Apostolos". This is the word Apostle.
-In Philippians 2:25, Paul called Epaphroditus a "messenger" using the Greek word "Apostolos". This is the word Apostle.
-1st Thessalonians 1:1 & 3:1 says Timothy was sent by Paul to establish their faith. Apostles were the only ones sent for that job at the time.
-Ephesians 4:10-17 shows that the 5 ministry offices are done when the Body of Christ is complete. WE AREN'T COMPLETE YET!
-Hebrews 11 speaks of the faith shown by PROPHETS, and that we should follow suit!
-Jude was NOT of the original 12 Apostles, yet he has an Epistle.
-Apostles are mentioned in the NT scriptures a ton more times that Pastors Evangelists and teachers combined. The same can be spoken of for Prophets.
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Permalink Reply by Elder David Brittain on
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And again I point out that that was then, there was a need at that time for prophets to speak the word or direction of God to the people because they did not have the written Word of God as we do today. We don't need prophets to tell us what God wants from us or wants us to do because we, each and every one of us, can go to God for ourselves, and read his word for ourselves. I don't, none of us, need anyone to tell us what God wants or has planned for us. I also believe that the office of the apostles has been translated to that of preachers and teachers. The Word says that the Apostles appointed deacons to over see the affairs of the church so that they could devote themselves to the preaching and teaching of Word of God.
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How is it the you can dismiss the Apostle's office and replace it with the Teacher and Deacon, when the original Apostles didn't do that themselves?!!? By your theory, then your very own position is in danger as well! The Bible says that the HOLY GHOST will guide you in all truth, and that JESUS is the Bishop (presbyter, the same word for Bishop and Elder) of our souls.
Moses did a similar act by installing leaders over the flock, but that didn't replace his office over Israel when the Law was given. A leader is still a leader, and the Apostle's office is STILL in affect. Have you clearly read Ephesians 4 on this subject? NONE of those offices will be done away with until the Body of CHRIST is perfected. Last I checked, the Body is far from that point. They didn't only plant churches and write scripture. In fact, not all the Apostles even wrote scripture! Plus you STILL need a Prophet. Why? The very scriptures you would believe to be enough speak about it also: AMOS 3:7-8. Its interesting that when the Apostles and Prophets were no longer regarded was around the time that the Church began its spiritual decline. I showed scripture after scripture to defend my point. Please show us a few scriptures that eliminate the Apostolic and Prophetic offices, while upholding still the Evangelist Pastor, Deacon, Teacher and Elder. Also, you did not comment on the point that there where more Apostles mentioned in the Bible besides the 12 and Paul.
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I didn't reply because I don't see anywhere in those scriptures where he called them apostles. He referred to them being a help to the apostles but did not call them apostles themselves. I do not discount Barnabas as an apostle because he was chosen by the others but God did not choose him yet he allowed it. Christ chose Paul to be his added apostle. A Prophet's job was to speak to the people and inform them of God's will and plans for his people, we no longer need anyone to tell us of God's plans because his written Word tells us exactly what he wants for his people. God's will for man, according to his Word, is that all men might be saved. There is nothing any so called prophet, or prophetess could tell me that I cannot find in the Word of God for myself. And yes, there will come a day when we will no longer need preachers and teachers and I believe that day is when Christ himself returns and calls his people (Church) home.
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You mean to tell me that you didn't see that GOD called these men Apostles!?!? No real Apostle that GOD allows to operate in the office is called by man, but by GOD alone. Paul said he was not an Apostle by man simply because he was declaring that he wasn't FAKE! Did you even READ the scriptures for yourself? I encourage you to do so, and as an Elder, I also would like to see scriptures that prove your point, not just churchy opinions. You said show me where, and I responded with not just one or two verses, but a few, and the list can EASILY go on, now I request that you "SHOW ME WHERE" the Bible declares that the Apostle & Prophet's office is done with now and not the Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher and Elder as well.
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Permalink Reply by Apostle Rolanda Ross on
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its time to SEEK THE LORD and HEAR WHAT HE IS SAYING IN THIS HOUR! APOSTLES & PROPHETS ARE DOING THIS THING! WHILE PASTORS ARE BABY SITTING! NOW CHEW ON THAT! MUCH LOVE
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The only thing I will chew is the Word of God. I don't nor does my Pastor, babysit anyone. We preach and teach the unadulterated Word of God. Yes, there are preachers and teachers out there who baby their congregations, and they are going to have to answer for their actions or non-action. I preach what the Word says, and I also encourage everyone to get in the bible and find out what God's Word says for themselves. I seek the Lord and listen to what he has to say for myself, that is why I don't need an Apostle!
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Permalink Reply by James Pierce on
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Apostles are ones that will ALWAYS be around. The Greek word for Apotle means "to send". In a theological understanding of it, it means "to send under the Master's teaching"
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Amen and AMEN!
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Its clear that there is a lack of understanding as to the origin of the office, or its duties and need. Do you truly and fully understand what an Apostle actually is and where it originated from? Most people don't unless they did extensive studies on it. Certain organizations unfortunately have not. When teaching on the Apostle, what do you tell them? Or do you even teach them about what an Apostle is at all?
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Permalink Reply by Rev. Kareem A. Christian on
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those that acclaim these titles are those who aren't concentrated on God but are concentrated on building their personalities/egos... the Scripture is completed in Jesus... and the last apostle wrote Revelation...the Cannon is complete... God isn't speaking no more through prophecies... Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecy... and His Word is what's needed for salvation today... the apostolic office is another office that was temporary... the last apostle was Paul... the Bible says, if any man say he's an apostle or prophet then he must show the signs of an apostle of prophet... and if he fails to show the signs... then let him be cursed..." (paraphrasing).... all prophecy and apostleship must be tested by Scripture... we must operate on the order of Scripture not according to feelings...
today more than ever we have many false prophets and false apostles... many voices in the world without affect...
The True Prophet Preaches Repentance And Obedience To God's Law
Jer 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jer 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
Jer 26:4 And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you,
Jer 26:5 To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you, both rising up early, and sending them, but ye have not hearkened;
Jer 26:6 Then will I make this house like Shiloh, and will make this city a curse to all the nations of the earth.
Jer 35:15 I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Defining The False Prophet And Their Fate:
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Jer 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
The Motivation of the False Prophet Is Money:
Micah 3:9 [NIV] Hear this, you leaders of the house of Jacob, you rulers of the house of Israel, who despise justice and distort all that is right;
Micah 3:10 [NIV] who build Zion with bloodshed, and Jerusalem with wickedness.
Micah 3:11 [NIV] Her leaders judge for a bribe, her priests teach for a price, and her prophets tell fortunes for money. Yet they lean upon the LORD and say, "Is not the LORD among us? No disaster will come upon us."
Micah 3:12 [NIV] Therefore because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble, the temple hill a mound overgrown with thickets.
Jer 6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
Jer 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
Jer 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
Ezek 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Ezek 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Ezek 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Ezek 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered mortar, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
Many People Actually Prefer False Prophets:
Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
Isa 30:11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.
Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
The Fate Of False Prophets And Those Who Follow Them:
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Jer 14:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
Jer 14:16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.
The Prophecies Of False Prophets Do Not Always Fail:
Deu 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
Deu 13:2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them,"
Deu 13:3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
Deu 13:5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
The New Testament
Wonderful Works Are Done By False Prophets In The Name Of The Lord:
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness].
False Prophets Will Be Numerous, And Very Successful:
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity [lawlessness] shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
2 Pet 2:1 [NIV] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Pet 2:2 [NIV] Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
2 Pet 2:3 [NIV] In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Many Prefer The False Prophet:
2 Tim 4:2 [NIV] Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
True Prophets Are Always In Harmony With Other Prophets Of God And Scripture:
1 Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
False Prophets Work Impressive Miracles That Deceive:
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
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