Show me where?

[Elder David Brittain]

Where in the word does it say that God is calling for Prophets and or Apostles? What about the scripture in Hebrews 11:1. God is all that we should need and want. I believe that as long as we have the Word of God then no one can tell us anything new or different. Jesus chose 12 and eleven became apostles, he then chose Paul to become the twelth. There are no more and can be no more. Let us stick to preaching and teaching Jesus and the Salvation that he shed his blood to bring.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, for by it the elders obtained a good report."- Hebrews 1:1-2

These are my favorite scripture verses! Sir I must say your interpretation IS off! What on Earth does that have to do with Apostles Prophets evangelists Pastors Teachers or any ministry office still being open?!?!? If anything, it aided in what I spoke on, for the same faith that spoke of and ordained Apostles and Prophets back then is the SAME faith that we preach on and are to use to this day! Jude spoke of the faith that was once delivered unto the saints. Has that faith changed? If so then the ministers change as well. The OT faith changed from waiting for a Messiah, to having HIM finally come. The Levitical Priesthood was for that faith, but once Messiah came, HE brought in the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. The difference is no more lambs and other offerings like that and the ministers are ministers FOREVER. The Priesthood of the Levites was to come to and end to give way to the 5-fold ministry, and it did when JESUS came. When HE came, HE installed Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers"for the perfecting of the saints..till we all come to the unity". Are we all unified? If not, then our jobs aren't done. Deacons were installed to care for the needs of widows while Apostles did what they were called to do. Bishops were installed like Pastors to watch over flocks while the Apostle went out and planted new regions for the Kingdom. This faith has not changed because the Apostle and Prophet are needed for the Preacher and teaching of the Gospel just as well as the Evangelist Pastor and Teacher. By taking them out of the equation, you have altered the faith and the system that GOD installed. Now GOD is trying to reinstall it, and you are using a verse that is taken out of context to justify why you wouldn't want to acknowledge another Minister of the Kingdom??? I thought you said you believed the Bible? Then why have you not acknowledged the scriptures that I used? If they are wrong, then please explain where I am wrong with them, just I did with yours. This is not sarcastic, but a serious request.

Also, the flaw that is present here is that you cannot build a whole doctrine around one single verse of the Bible. It has to be found in both OT and NT, and I can PROVE my portion in both OT and NT.

[Elder David Brittain]

You read and quoted Hebrews 11:1. I gave the scripture Hebrews 1: 1-2 or at least that is the one I meant to put down.

[Elder David Brittain]

I attempted to finish my reply above but it did not save. I will try to re-write the rest of my response a little later. Sorry

[Elder David Brittain]

I want to start this off by saying I don't and won't take away from any work that anyone is doing for Jesus Christ. I will never belittle it, or discourage anyone from doing what they believe that God has called them to do. I may not agree with how you get the job done, but I will agree when it produces results. I said this previously and I will say it again, "I BELIEVE THAT IF THE LOVE OF CHRIST DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF US THEN I CAN STILL LOVE YOU AND RESPECT YOU EVEN IF I MAY NOT AGREE WITH YOU.

Now my reply:
Don't assume that I don't talk to God. Don't assume that I don't pray, just because what I believe is not the same as you, or that I may not be listening to God. And just as you said to me I say the same to you, "don't believe that you have an answer or all the answers." I read, believe and trust in the entire Word of God, from Genesis to Revelations. I have read each and ever scripture that you gave, and that I gave, my interpretation of them may not be the same as yours for each and every scripture but my faith in them never waivers or fails. Again I say, as you look at these scriptures remember the time, circumstances, and things happening at that time. The scripture that you speak of in Acts 11 still deals with a time when there was not a written Word of God, and the spreading of the faith was still in its infancy, or beginning. I can understand a need for prophets to still be used by God because the gentiles were still being introduced to Christ, and there were those who still needed to see signs and wonders in order to believe. The scripture that you quote in Ephesians clearly states that He (God) gave some, the key word here being "some" Apostles, that some was those that Christ called at that time. He gave some Prophets in a time when there was still a need for Prophets. If you study what the prophets you will see that yes they were called and yes they were sent to the people, but they were sent to tell, warn, or deliver Gods Word, Will, and intentions toward his people. Now we have all of these things in his written word. I can study for myself, show myself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
I will end with this; if you are serving the Lord, if you are giving him all the praise and all the glory then you have all my love and respect. I only speak out against those who would steal the praise and honor that is due to God, and yes there are those out there who abuse these and many other offices and positions within the body of Christ. The sister below is correct when she states that the real issue is do we know Jesus.

[Apostle Rolanda Ross]

we are doing the work, because these will follow us according to revelation. We as Apostles & Prophets, establish, impart, teach, love, build, give, have patience with God's people, clothe the naked, feed the hungry and so on. The real issue is DO WE KNOW JESUS? After doing all these things. I know HIM. I believe you do. I am what I am by the grace and MERCY of GOD! Your opinion of my call as an Apostle really dont matter.I am a SON of GOD (no gender here) and HE has given me power and authority in the earth and in heaven. So I get my instructions through my fellowship (intimacy) with Him. Anybody else is irrevelant. Try telling some of the people who are following the Apostilic anointing that there are no Apostles or Prophets! You'll get your feelings hurt! (SMILE) Grow up, seek God out of a humble heart. One that desires to KNOW and I decree Heaven will open up for you. Love & Hugs! Got work to do! Peace

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Oh Ok, Hebrews 1:1-2: "GOD, who at sundry times and divers manners spoke in times past to the fathers by the Prophets has in these last days spoken to us by HIS Son, whom HE has appointed heir of all things, by whom also HE made the worlds."

I see what you are saying here, however, to say that because of these two verses the Apostle and Prophets are done is totally inaccurate. You failed to balance this with Ephesians 4:8-16. According to those scriptures it was Christ who sent Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers in these last days as well as in the times of the 12 Apostles and the OT. When HE ascended on high, HE gave gifts to men "for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifiying of the Body of Christ, till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of GOD, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ that we...." Are we a perfected body as of yet? Is the ministry done? Don't we cry out saying "LORD send laborers into the field" still? Then why, when Christ sends them, do you fight against them saying "we would prefer another type of laborer"?

The Bible clearly states that there were Prophets in the NT times like Agabus. You said men made them Prophets and men called them Apostles, not GOD. If that were true, then they were false Apostles and Prophets, and therefore heresy was spoken by the 12 Apostles. They prayed and asked the HOLY SPIRIT who would be the 12th Apostle, and Mattias was chosen. Were they in error? Did they ordain the wrong guy? In Acts 13:1-4 the HOLY SPIRIT likewise chose Barnabas and Paul for Apostleship as well. Was hat an error as well to say that Barnabas was an Apostle? Didn't the HOLY SPIRIT send them both? You may say "Paul allowed Barnabas to come along", but in those verses, Barnabas was named first and Barnabas was the elder between the two. In Acts 15, they said Silas and Judas were "....also Prophets". They were sitting in the Council of Apostles, and were called "also Prophets". Did you miss that particular verse before? In 1st Corinthians 15, Paul mentioned the 12 Apostles, then he mentioned James then "the rest of the Apostles". You said that there were only 12 Apostles plus Paul. Paul said there were more Apostles besides himself. Whose write, you who are reading his Epistles, or him who wrote them? Paul also called Titus "messenger", using the word "Apostolos". Apostolos is the specific word used for Apostle. We in English trdition used the word Messenger, but that was totally wrong. The doesn't mean Messenger, it means "Sent One", and it denoted a governmental and militaristic office, like that of an Ambassador and/or Naval Admiral. I have to ask you two things Elder, and please answer this:

-what studies have you actually done on the background of the office of the Apostle?
-Will you please do the background check? Even if you are an Elder in the church, you, as well as any one else, are still learning.

Don't reject such a request out of falsely "feeling insulted" or "challenged", because anytime a person feels like that, ESPECIALLY towards a Bible study subject, its not of GOD. Its nothing but pride. Likewise, if you want for me to read up on anything, I will gladly do so at a brother's request. The reason why we are going so hard at defending the offices are not because we wanna look big or sound important. we can do that any other way like call ourselves Bishops or Elders (no offense) or Archbishop (which aint even official). The Apostle Paul in 1st Corinthians 12spoke about the different ministry gifts as though they were different body parts. Would you simply remove a part that you "figure" wasn't in use anymore? Even people in wheelchairs don't do that to their own legs, even though they don't (presently) work. Then why are you and others doing it to theses two ministry "body parts"? To take away the part would leave the body disfigured, going against the plan and will of Christ.

Selah......

[Rev. Eric Culberson Jr.]

Here is my only qoestion on this matter, as I have an opinion but I choose not to state it. Can someone bring this question to an understanding for me. How does one get elevated to the office of Apostle? They start of as preacher, then they go to Bishop, then Apostle? If all are offices that one must be called to, why are there these different elevations?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

An Apostle has to first have seen the risen LORD JESUS. People doubt this, thinking JESUS don't do that anymore, but JESUS has not changed. The Apostle must also not only evangelize, but make disciples of men. The Apostle will plant churches. Churches not meaning only church buildings, but establish the Kingdom in the land by establishing it in the PEOPLE of the land, for people place too much stock in a building. Apostles preach the Kingdom of GOD, and teach Kingdom principles/laws. Different signs and wonders will follow the ministry of the Apostle, as it should ANY believer. Elder said: "I can understand a need for prophets to still be used by God because the gentiles were still being introduced to Christ, and there were those who still needed to see signs and wonders in order to believe." This is STILL true. America is much like Jerusalem back then though: DOUBTERS OF THE ACTIVE POWER OF GOD, & KNOWLEDGE SEEKERS. Paul said I do not come with excellence of speech, but demonstration of power. Apparently he needs to read up on world missions, and not the regular stuff either! However, DO NOT place too much stock in or simply judge by the amount of or quality of the signs and wonders. Like any minister, we are not here to just do parlor tricks, but do Kingdom work. Apostles break into uncharted/unreached territory, and aide in the work in already charted territory. These are just the basics of an Apostle. Each Apostle is different in specific life experiences and callings.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Elder, you said some things hat caught my eye. You responded to a scripture (Acts 11) that was never even given to my knowledge, and yet didn't respond to the others. You said you gave your interpretation of the scriptures, but again thats wrong because you never responded to them. You mentioned signs and wonders being needed back then. Thats true, but there are instances that signs and wonders are needed today. Are you telling me that the power of GOD is no longer active in such a manner any more? If not, then I suggest you read up on the testimonies of many believers within the last 100 years, INCLUDING MY OWN. You mentioned reading up on Prophets. I would know about them because I just so happen to be An Apostle-Prophet, sir. Its one thing to "study them", but its another to walk in their shows. Thats like a white man describing a black man's problems with discrimination in this country, or a an describing a woman's issues: close, but not as good as a first hand account.

You mentioned that you only have to "study to show thyself approved" now. Ok, thats cool. Then since you have the Bible and the Word is all you need, then surely you don't need Teachers, for JESUS said "you have One Teacher". You don't need a Pastor anymore either, because Psalms 23 says "The LORD is my Shepherd". You don't need an Evangelist because "they shall not be drawn unless the FATHER draws them", right?

You said they didn't have the written word, but thats not true either. They had the OT all along, and taught mainly from it. They had the Apostles themselves at the time and the Epistles over a short period of time. You neglected to speak on what 1st Thessalonians said about Prophecy (despise not prophecy), loooooong after 1st Corinthians spoke on the Prophetic gift.

You forgot one thing about prophecy my dear friend: Agabus said some PERSONAL prophetic words to the people that the Bible could not have predicted.

[Elder David Brittain]

Yes I responded on your comment about Agabus. I said that there was still a need for the prophet at that time because the spreading of the Gospel was still in its infancy, and a time when people still needed times and wonders. I never said that God still did not perform miracles and wonders, what I said was that we should not require signs and wonders but that we should have faith. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Our Faith should be enough. We should believe whole heartedly that God is, and will do everything that he said he would. Yes we are to study for ourselves, no one should take wholeheartedly what any man says without searching the scriptures for themselves and finding out if it is true according to the Word of God. When people begin to just accept what is said, preached, and taught then they usually end up disappointed,discouraged, and lost. To blindly accept someone else's interpretations, beliefs, or teachings is the same as joining a cult.
As we study the scriptures, we sometimes may not understand all that we read and so then we need teachers to give us clarity on the Word of God that we have read for ourselves. Anyone can twist the scriptures to suit their needs, the devil did it when he was speaking to Christ, that is why we need preachers and teachers to give the unadulterated Word of God and to correct the mis-truths that others may spread, and for those who want to know the truth but are not willing to study for themselves. You spoke on scriptures that were written after others yet you fail to recognize that all the scriptures you gave come before the main scripture that I used to back up my understanding.

Maybe this is a subject better left alone, and we should agree to disagree and just praise the Lord together.