There are many things that are in the bible and there are many things that are not in the bible. Historically and biblically, the Catholic church exists outside of the Christian kingdom. Jesus started only one church and that was in Jersalem on the day of Pentecost. The Protestant churches are the offsprings of the Catholic church having no connection to the church that Jesus started with the apostles at Pentecost. Did any Hebrew teach of more than one God that trinity doctrine poses? Did Jesus, who was born a Hebrew teach of more than one God as trinity doctrine says? Why do we have to look outside of the bible to establish a trinitarian view and doctrine of God? No where in scripture we find that there is a God the Son, or God the Holy Ghost. No where in scripture do we find that there are 3 gods, nor do we find, according to some, 1 god in 3 persons. Wow! so many things are leeched onto our belief system of God really makes u wonder are u truly worshipping the God of the bible. Where do we get that God is a person other than being Jesus? Does the bible say that the Father is a person or a Spirit? John 4:24 Does the bible say that the Holy Ghost is a person? I think we really need to take a look at what is taught by Jesus in the scripture.

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HA HA HA! James He All ready is swimming up the creek with no paddle or raft!! He believes in the Trinity!
1) Luke was not Hebrew, and he wrote 2 books. King Nebuchadnezzar wrote a chapter within Daniel, and he was Babylonian. To understand the Bible merely from the Hebraic standpoint is to only look at it from one angle, when the GOD of all creation utilized multiple cultures. You would be a fool to look at a ball from only one angle. Thats the mentality that had Europeans thinking the world was flat, but the Bible itself says that the world is circular. Is the Hebraic thought the ONLY thought utilized by GOD?

2) Actually, believing in the Oneness doctrine has you in a leaky boat. Belief in GOD's Trinity means that I'm walking on the water you're afraid of drowning in!

believe what you like :)
To look at it from only a Hebraic standpoint is a MAJOR error. Paul was a Pharisee, but he was also a Roman. The NT was written by mainly Jewish men. However, Luke was Gentile. Also, the entire NT was written in Greek, so therefore, you had to get a Greek understanding as well. The term Apostle is a Greco-Roman office in origin, not a Jewish one. But thats another subject.

I noticed that you never answered to 1st Corinthians 15. Care to comment?

To say that reading the bible from a Hebraic perspective is an error is like saying you dont need to carve out wood to make a wooden house. Its pretty much impossible. luke was a Prosylete, who converted to Messianic Judaism. Sha'ul was Jewish by blood, and roman by citizen, yet the bible is written from a Hebraic understanding.

You must understand something. The letters that Sha'ul wrote, he wrote them to already established churches that were taught torah, and Yahshua by him. He did not write those letters, and by those letters, he etablished the churches. Those churches were previously taught by Sha'ul. I say again, if you do not study Hebraic thought, then you will be limited in understanding.

I am not sure if I understand you concerning 1 cor 15.
What I mean about 1st Corinthians 15:25-28 is this: Apostle Paul said that JESUS will submit HIMSELF to the authority of GOD the FATHER and turn the Kingdom back over to HIM. If JESUS IS GOD the FATHER, then how can HE submit to Himself?? It makes absolutely no sense!

And as for Hebraic thought, GOD would not have everyone conform to just simply one culture, for YAHWEH is not just the GOD of the Jews, but of the Spanish, the African, the Chinese, the American Indian, the Vietnamese......True HE a GOD of order, but HE's also a GOD of VARIETY just as well! Sha'ul's Greek name is Paul. YESHUA's English/Spanish name is JESUS. HIS Arabic name is ISA.What gain would it be to have everything in black and white? The first covenant that GOD gave after the flood was the rainbow, remember?

I am not trinitarian, therefore I do not comform to the belief that Yahshua is Yahweh, at least in the morphe sense. The point as far as which thought to understand the bible in, it will always be in Hebraic thought. The point is hardly that Yahweh reaches the masses, rather, the point is that these masses must be taught Hebraic thought in their own language.

I am one who disagrees with the literal meaning of the Noah story, for this same story of Noah and the flood existed in Sumerian, and Babylonian texts that came before the Genesis creation story.

No matter what tribe, tongue, or race you are of, when you are reading the bible, an ancient Jewish text, you must read it from their perspective. It would not make any sense for an American to read a book of culture and language that is thousands of years removed from our culture, reading it to understand it via our own culture and language. It must be read from the ancient's perspective.

You can deny this all you want, and try to rationalize it to the cows come home and say,"Moooo", the fact still stands that the bible was written from a culture, and language of Hebrews, and Hebraic understanding is essential. No matter what language it has been translated into, or what country the holy scriptures is in, they must study the culture, and language of the Hebrews to better understand the bible.
You dodged my question. To say that JESUS is the FATHER is totally false because JESUS will turn the kingdom back over to GOD the FATHER and JESUS will submit HIMSELF to GOD the FATHER. Also, we are called "joint heirs with CHRIST" in Romans chapter 8, so that would make us sons of GOD, the brothers/sisters of the SON of GOD.

As far as the Noah story, if it appears in other people's history, the OBVIOUSLY it is true. Shem Ham and Japheth are the 3 fathers of us all, remember? Therefore ALL nations in their original history will have this story to tell!
TREVOR Or ANY TRINITARIAN, Please answer these questions.



1. Why would the APOSTLES say something totally different than Jesus said as to how we should baptize?

2. Did they merely have a better understanding of Jesus and his word, than we do?

3.Were the Apostles being blatantly disobedient to Christ since they did not baptize in the trinity?

4. If so, shouldn't we disregard every book of the bible written, by the Apostles? The whole new testament?

5. Could it be that they had a deeper understanding in that Jesus didn't want to say "Baptize them in my Name"?

6. Could it be that they understood him to be God, therefore none of them baptized in any other way but in the Name of Jesus?

7. Could it be that they were not disobeying but understanding what Jesus was commanding them to do?

I wish to have those who believe in trinity baptism to expound on the above questions and to show why we should Eliminate or Ignore the scriptures that state that we should baptize in Jesus name.


You are foolishly making this an issue of what name to baptize in. This is NOT the issue. Its the same issue that we have been through before: is the Trinity biblical or not. If the Trinity is not biblical, the n you claim that JESUS is the Father. If you claim that He is the Father, the you are saying that JESUS will submit the Kingdom to the FATHER (JESUS) in the end, and that is totally wrong! If you say that HE is the FATHER, then you are saying that HE prayed to Himself, and thats wrong! If you say that He's the FATHER, then you are saying that HE has two wills and yet one will, and thats wrong!
I knew you couldn't answer my Questions and try to change the subject. But this is THE issue of the name that Trinitarians deny like yourself.
So I am still waiting for an Honest answer Trevor can you answer at least One of the Seven? and if So Where do the other scriptures fit in that I gave?
Thanks Love In Christ Della Morton
Della, don't play this game as if you actually try to answer anyone's statements! I said that about you LAST NIGHT!

However, I'll take the time to answer any real question if you take the time to actually present them as questions instead of hour long lectures......


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