Trinity Doctrine? Biblical or Catholic Teaching

[Kenon Veals]

There are many things that are in the bible and there are many things that are not in the bible. Historically and biblically, the Catholic church exists outside of the Christian kingdom. Jesus started only one church and that was in Jersalem on the day of Pentecost. The Protestant churches are the offsprings of the Catholic church having no connection to the church that Jesus started with the apostles at Pentecost. Did any Hebrew teach of more than one God that trinity doctrine poses? Did Jesus, who was born a Hebrew teach of more than one God as trinity doctrine says? Why do we have to look outside of the bible to establish a trinitarian view and doctrine of God? No where in scripture we find that there is a God the Son, or God the Holy Ghost. No where in scripture do we find that there are 3 gods, nor do we find, according to some, 1 god in 3 persons. Wow! so many things are leeched onto our belief system of God really makes u wonder are u truly worshipping the God of the bible. Where do we get that God is a person other than being Jesus? Does the bible say that the Father is a person or a Spirit? John 4:24 Does the bible say that the Holy Ghost is a person? I think we really need to take a look at what is taught by Jesus in the scripture.

[Della Morton]

Teaching Philip K Panyen (a trinitarian minister) about the One God. 1-19-09 by Steven D. Ashe
Here Is A recorded conversation between two ministers you will find very enlightening!


steven_ashe: Are you here?

philipkpanyen: Yes

philipkpanyen: I am here

steven_ashe: My yahoo crashed and had to reboot

philipkpanyen: likewise here

philipkpanyen: Just got back

steven_ashe: In the Hebrew language they always used plural words to describe God. Not that God was more than one but that in their belief and in trying to give Him the great honor He deserves they use what is called "Majestic Plurality" to describe Him.

steven_ashe: Example in Gen. 1 He is called 'Elohim' which is a word that means 'Gods'.

philipkpanyen: Yes because you have all right to have all names

steven_ashe: But you and I know that the Hebrew people only believed in the one and only single God.

philipkpanyen: Good

philipkpanyen: Friend i like God till i cry at time just to see him

steven_ashe: Here is another example for that same word being used found in:

steven_ashe: Exodus 32:23 (KJV)

23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

philipkpanyen: I am planning to write books praising him

steven_ashe: See the word 'gods'???

steven_ashe: Are you paying attention to me or just typing without seeing what I am trying to teach you?

philipkpanyen: Very sweet

steven_ashe: Are you paying attention to me or just typing without seeing what I am trying to teach you?

philipkpanyen: I am paying 100% attention to you

steven_ashe: Do you see the word 'gods' in the verse I typed???

steven_ashe: ????????

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Here is another verse

steven_ashe: Exodus 32:8 (KJV)

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: See the word 'gods' there????

philipkpanyen: Yes Example in Gen. 1 He is called 'Elohim' which is a word that means 'Gods'.

steven_ashe: You are not following me, if you want to teach this then you type all you want to as you are losing track of the direction I am going.

philipkpanyen: Oh my friend i am with you

steven_ashe: Then stop sidetracking my direction

philipkpanyen: I am reading through

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: You saw the word 'gods' in both Exodus 32: 8 and 32:23 right???

philipkpanyen: Yes i do

steven_ashe: Read these verses now:

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: Exodus 32:8 (KJV)

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.



Exodus 32:19-20 (KJV)

19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

20 And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.

steven_ashe: Exodus 32:24 (KJV)

24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.

steven_ashe: Read those verses and then I will ask you a very serious and important question.

philipkpanyen: I am through now friend

philipkpanyen: I am waiting for the question.

steven_ashe: Ok

steven_ashe: Here is my first question in all these verse I gave you that has the word 'gods' mentioned how many golden calfs were there that Aaron made???

philipkpanyen: 1

steven_ashe: Correct, yet they describe it as 'gods' correct????

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: So that tells me that when the Bible speaks of God as 'Elohim' it does not mean a trinity of 'gods' but a single one God, right???

philipkpanyen: Right

steven_ashe: Correct.

steven_ashe: For the Bible never mentions a trinity of 'gods' or a trinity of 'persons' or a trinity of anything to do with God but does mention multible ways or modes that this one God manifests Himself to man.

steven_ashe: You understand?

philipkpanyen: Yeah

steven_ashe: So, now read my personal Statement of the Godhead:

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: My Personal Statement Of The Godhead© Let me first say that I DO BELIEVE in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit/Ghost and I have no problem using those terms or titles at various times in teaching, preaching, praying, writing, or any other type of communications. I believe these 3 terms, or better yet, ‘titles’ are expressions of the One God, not in ‘persons’, but in modes or manifestations of His working, presents and involvement with mankind past, present and future. There is only one God who is called by the title ‘Father’ and only one body/flesh of God called by the title ‘Son’ and only one indwelling Spirit of God called by the title Comforter-Holy Ghost-Spirit. How-be-it there are many titles and various expressions of what God is called in the Bible there is only one family

steven_ashe: family name that is above every other name or title in Heaven, on earth and under the earth that has been given to us to be called by, saved by and live by and it is that one name that we know as the ‘I am he’ and that is the name Jesus Christ. The teaching of a 3 person 'trinity' is a false doctrine and I do not support any false gospel. Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

steven_ashe: I am Apostolic in Doctrine - Acts 2:38-47, Pentecostal in Experience - Acts 2:1-4 and Oneness in Belief - Deut. 6:4; Zechariah 14:9; Matthew 1:23; John 1:14; 1 Timothy 3:16; Colossians 2:9-10 Apostolic means one who believes, practices, teaches and/or preaches the same identical doctrine (teachings) of Jesus and the original Apostles as detailed in Acts 2:38-47. Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

steven_ashe: The New Testament Plan of Salvation is a 3 step process or 3 keys as Jesus gave Peter the ‘Key’s of the Kingdom of heaven’ in Matthew 16:19 and Peter then preached the first full and complete Salvation message in Acts 2 (to the Jews - see also Luke 24:47 = repentance and remission of sins [baptism in Jesus name] should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem), then again in Acts 8 (to the Samaritans) and once again in Acts 10 (to the Gentiles). This correlates perfectly with the blood being applied in Exodus by Moses and

steven_ashe: the children of Israel on their 2 door posts and the top lentil across the door. If any one of the 3 locations was overlooked or missed the ‘death angel’ would not Passover that home but come and take in death the oldest son and animals. Such is the importance of the 3 keys of Acts 2:38, neither you nor I, can afford to miss any one of the 3 locations of the application of the cleansing blood of Jesus for these are the Death, Burial and Resurrection (Gospel) made full and complete in our lives.

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: You read my full and complete message?

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Good, any questions???

philipkpanyen: No

philipkpanyen: i have read the bible

philipkpanyen: and do my studies sometime too

steven_ashe: OK, so tell me how you think one should be baptized, what words are to be spoken over them when they are put underwater???

philipkpanyen: i was baptized 2 times, i was a kid..i cant remember word 4 word

steven_ashe: What was the main words? Did you get baptized with the words 'father, son and holy ghost' spoken or the name of Jesus Christ???

philipkpanyen: father,son and holy ghost

steven_ashe: Ok, let me give you some more Scriptures ok?

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: Zechariah 14:9 (KJV)

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

steven_ashe: How many LORDS are mentioned here and how many names???

philipkpanyen: Okay

philipkpanyen: 1

steven_ashe: 1 Lord and 1 name right???

philipkpanyen: Yeah

steven_ashe: Ok, good

steven_ashe: Now in Matthew 16:19 Jesus give Peter the 'keys to the kingdom of heaven. No one else but only Peter right?

steven_ashe: Matthew 16:18 (KJV)

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Matthew 16:18-19 (KJV)

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.





steven_ashe: Right?

philipkpanyen: Right?

philipkpanyen: Right

steven_ashe: Ok

steven_ashe: Now Jesus said in

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: Luke 24:47, Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:15-18 that the gospel should be preached first in Jersulam then if all the rest of the world, right???

steven_ashe: Luke 24:47 (KJV)

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



Matthew 28:19 (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



Mark 16:15-18 (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

philipkpanyen: Yeah

steven_ashe: Ok good, you are following my direction ok???

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Peter was the only one with the Keys to unlock the gospel message to the world (others like Paul etc had them later but Peter was the first) right???

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Ok, next

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: Who was the one that first preached in Jerusalem???

philipkpanyen: Peter

steven_ashe: Right

steven_ashe: And who was the one that first told the Samaritans in Acts 8 about the Gospel plan of salvation???

philipkpanyen: ?

steven_ashe: Peter in verse 14 - 17

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: Acts 8:14-17 (KJV)

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

steven_ashe: Peter used the 'keys' to unlock the holy Ghost for them

steven_ashe: See it???

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Ok, good

steven_ashe: Next

steven_ashe: In Acts 10 who told the gentiles first about the Gospel plan of salvation?

philipkpanyen: Tell me

steven_ashe: Acts 10:25 (KJV)

25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.



Acts 10:34 (KJV)

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:



Acts 10:44 (KJV)

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

steven_ashe: You see and follow my teaching of the Bible truth of the correct Keys???

philipkpanyen: Okay

steven_ashe: Ok, good

steven_ashe: Lets review quickly before I continue

philipkpanyen: Ok

steven_ashe: Peter was given the Keys to the New Testament Plan of Salvation right???

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Peter was the first one to teach and preach those 'KEYS' in Jerusalem to the Jews right?

philipkpanyen: right

steven_ashe: Ok, Peter was the first one to teach and preach those 'KEYS' to the Samaritans (half Jew and half Roman) right?

philipkpanyen: right

steven_ashe: Ok, Peter was the first one to teach and preach those 'KEYS' to the Gentiles right?

philipkpanyen: Yes

philipkpanyen: Ok

steven_ashe: So that means that Jesus when He gave Peter those 'KEYS' gave him a very great responsibility for if he got the message wrong everyone Peter preached to and taught would be taught wrong and would be lost due to false information. Right?

philipkpanyen: right

steven_ashe: Ok

steven_ashe: You know that the book of Acts is the actual recorded actions (acts) of what Peter and all the other apostles preached, taught and practised right???

philipkpanyen: Ok

steven_ashe: Good, you agree right???

philipkpanyen: yes

steven_ashe: Ok, good

steven_ashe: Now, here is part 2 of my study:

steven_ashe: Ready?

philipkpanyen: Ok

steven_ashe: No where in any of the rest of the New Testament are there any baptisms mentioned or shown as they are all recorded in Acts only, right?

philipkpanyen: i dont have a bible

philipkpanyen: to check

philipkpanyen: right now

steven_ashe: Trust me as we will discover this fact in this study.

steven_ashe: ok

steven_ashe: ?

philipkpanyen: Ok

steven_ashe: Now, in Acts 2:14 it tells us that Peter stood up with (in agreement with) the other 11 disciples (later called Apostles) right?

steven_ashe: Acts 2:14 (KJV)

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Ok,

steven_ashe: So what ever KEYS Peter used on that day is the same identical KEYS the others agreed with and used themselves in the rest of the Bible, right??? Remember they are all in agreement with Peter who had the original KEYS given him by Jesus.

philipkpanyen: Yes

steven_ashe: Ok, good

philipkpanyen: Ok

philipkpanyen: my dog here

steven_ashe: Now we know according to God Word that no man can change His Word or teachings right? Once God puts a plan into action it is set (forever oh lord thy word is settled in heaven Psalm 119:89) right?

steven_ashe: Psalms 119:89 (KJV)

89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

philipkpanyen: Thank you so much my good friend

philipkpanyen: I have to go for devotion now

philipkpanyen: May God bless and protect you

philipkpanyen: Thank you so much\

philipkpanyen: I appreciate all you have done for me

steven_ashe: Ok, we will continue this next time if you still want to know truth.

steven_ashe: Jesus Bless you my friend.

philipkpanyen: likewise my friend

steven_ashe: We're just getting to the good part.

steven_ashe: ttyl



Pick up with



#1.

Galatians 1:8-9

1 John 2:19

2 John 1:9-10

Jude 3 2 Corin. 1:13

Rom 16:17

Rom 8:38-39

Deut. 4:2

Deut. 13:1-3

Deut. 28:14

2 Corin. 11:3-4, 13-14

Prov. 30:5-6

#2.

'A Study in Acts - Baptism

Acts is the only New Testament book where any baptisms are recorded and everyone of them were done in the name of our Lord and Savior ‘Jesus Christ’. Also no one every preached or taught in the titles of Father, Son or Holy Ghost at all but in the one name of those titles – Jesus Christ. There is nothing wrong with using those titles in preaching, teaching, etc as long as the user and listener knows that they just that ‘TITLES’ and not the’ NAME’



Acts 2:38 Peter who had the Keys of the Kingdom which were, and are, the words whereby we are to be saved by (Matthew 16:19; Acts 4:12; 10:34 & 36; 11:14), preached Jesus Christ. This is what the Apostles Doctrine was, is and always will be – see verse 42 also Acts 13:12 (Galatians 1:8-9; 2 Corinthians 11:2-3; 2 John 1:9-10; Jude verse 3; Revelations 22:18-19) and also this is where the one and only ‘church’ was born and established - see verse 47 (also Acts 5:14; 6:7; 11:20, 21, 24).

Acts 8:12 Here Philip preached and baptized both men and women in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:16 Peter again preaches Jesus Christ and then baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus [Lord Jesus is a shorter way of saying they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. No abbreviations or alterations were every authorized or approved by Jesus or the Apostles. (Galatians 1:8-9; 2 Corinthians 11:2-3; 2 John 1:9-10; Jude verse 3; Revelations 22:18-19)].

Acts 9:18 Paul then called Saul (Acts 13:9) was baptized in Jesus’ name (See verse: 5, 20, 27 and 29; 4:12; 17:3, 18; 18:5; Colossians 3:17).

Acts 10:47-48 Peter preached Jesus Christ (see verse 36, 38 and 11:17; 15:17) and here he baptized the first Gentiles in the name of the Lord [Lord is a shorter way of saying they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. No abbreviations or alterations were every authorized or approved by Jesus or the Apostles. (Galatians 1:8-9; 2 Corinthians 11:2-3; 2 John 1:9-10; Jude verse 3; Revelations 18:19)].

Acts 16:15 Lydia which worshiped God, heard Paul preach Jesus Christ (Romans 1:16; Acts 17:18) the Lord opened her understanding as he did to the disciples in the beginning (Luke 24:45) and she was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 16:15; 4:12; 17:3; 19:3-5; Romans 1:16; Colossians 3:17).

Acts 16:30-33 The keeper of the prison asked what must he do to be saved (Acts 2:37) and was told to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38, 42) and he was baptized, he and all his family in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38, 42; 4:12; 17:3; 18:5; 19:3-5; Colossians 3:17).

Acts 17:23 Paul preached to the men of Athens who had built an altar unto the UNKNOWN GOD was none other than Jesus Christ.

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue in Corinth and all his house and many of the residents living there heard and believed and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:16; Acts 4:12; 18:5; Colossians 3:17).

Acts 18:24, 28 Apollos taught and preached publicly showing by the Scriptures (the only scriptures they had at that time was the Old Testament) that Jesus was Christ (even Jesus told the Jews at Jerusalem to search the Old Testament for they testified of Him and Him alone - John 5:39).

Acts 19:1-5 Paul asked found certain disciples and asked them if they had received the Holy Ghost since then believed (Acts 2:38; John 7:37-39; John 3:3, 5, 7) and they said they had not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost and they Paul asked them a most important question: ‘Unto what then were ye baptized? And hearing their answer preached Jesus Christ to them and when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus then Paul laid his hands (in prayer) on them and they received the Holy Ghost just as all true believers did (Acts 2:1-4 11:15).

Acts 19:13-16 Here even the vagabond Jews, exorcists took upon themselves to use the name Jesus Christ and try to rebuke evil spirits (demons) out of some people who were possessed just as Paul had been doing (verse 12). The only problem was that the demons knew these Jews did not have the authority to use the name of Jesus Christ for they had not obeyed the Apostles Doctrine (Acts 2:38, 42) by repenting and being baptized in His name (this is where, and how ‘calling on the name of the Lord’ is done) and receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost. So even these false preachers knew enough to use the one and only name of God – Jesus Christ – and not the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And in Acts 19:17 because of the events of verses 13-16 the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.





"A Study In The Book Of Acts”

How Did The Original Apostles Baptize?© 1994, 2005, 2008





Here is my study called: ‘Who Is This Jesus We Love And Serve’.


Who Is This Jesus We Love And Serve?©

2004, 2008 by Steven D. Ashe and Study The Word Ministries®



First, let me set the tone of this study and my personal feelings of love, friendship and fellowship with all others as long as all are of a honest and truth seeking heart with this Scripture:

Ephesians 4:13 (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I personally subscribe to the following declaration of the things which are more surely believed among us (Luke 1:1 [KJV] Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,), praying that there be neither harmful nor divisive difference of belief to the injury of any, nor the disturbance of the peace and harmony of the church, and that we maybe all of the same mind and same judgment, speaking the same things in love (1 Corinthians 1:10 [KJV] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. And Acts 2:42 [KJV] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.) and with one voice glorifying God, to the edification of His people, and to give a true full and complete Christian witness to the world.

My Statement of Faith:

There is one God, called the Father, who manifested Himself in a body of flesh, called the Son, which was named Jesus Christ, and now indwells in us, and is called, the Holy Ghost/Spirit. I do believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit/Ghost and I have no problem using those terms or titles at various times in teaching, preaching, praying, writing, or any other type of communications. I do believe these 3 terms, or better yet, ‘titles’ are expressions of the One God, not in ‘persons’, but in modes or manifestations of His working, presents and involvement with mankind past, present and future.

For my complete Bible Study Lessons Series on the Godhead send your request for ‘The Godhead Lessons Series by e-mail to: [e-mail]



Scripture Base for this study:

John 8:24 (KJV)
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Questions to be pursued and answered:

1. What name did our Savior come in? Work in? And declare unto the world?

2. What is the name of the Father? And of the Son? And of the Holy Ghost?

3. What did Jesus mean when he said that we must know he is the "I am He" or we will die in our sins?

4. Are there 3 'persons' in the Godhead or 3 'manifestations' of the ONE GOD? or does it really matter if we know or not?

Scriptural Answer:

1. God (the Father) of the Old Testament declares that one day 'all will know His name' and that He is the 'I am he'.

Isaiah 52:6 (KJV)
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.



2. God declares that in that day there will be One King who is the ONE LORD and He will have only ONE NAME.

Zechariah 14:9 (KJV)
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.



3. The Father's name is what all the family in heaven and earth is named after.

Ephesians 3:14-15 (KJV)
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,



4. Jesus came in His Father's name.

John 5:43 (KJV)
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.



5. Jesus said He was the Father.

John 10:30 (KJV)
30 I and my Father are one.



6. Holy Ghost/Spirit was the father of the Son-Jesus.

Matthew 1:18 (KJV)
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:20 (KJV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 1:35 (KJV)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.



7. Jesus inherited His Father's name.

Hebrews 1:4 (KJV)
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Ephesians 3:14-15 (KJV)
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,



8. An angel of the Father named Jesus.

Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:30-31 (KJV)
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.



9. Jesus name is higher than any other name, in heaven, on earth or under the earth.

Philippians 2:9-10 (KJV)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;



10. Jesus came in the name of the LORD.

Matthew 21:9 (KJV)
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
Matthew 23:39 (KJV)
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Mark 11:9-10 (KJV)
9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
Luke 13:35 (KJV)
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Luke 19:38 (KJV)
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
John 12:13 (KJV)
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.


11. The Father is the only LORD.

Isaiah 37:16 (KJV)
16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
Isaiah 43:3 (KJV)
3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 43:11 (KJV)
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 43:15 (KJV)
15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 45:5-6 (KJV)
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:18 (KJV)
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.


12. Only One LORD, One Faith and One Baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,



13. Jesus is coming back in the name of the LORD.

Luke 13:35 (KJV)
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Luke 19:38 (KJV)
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.



14. Jesus is both LORD and CHRIST.

Matthew 1:16 (KJV)
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Matthew 1:18 (KJV)
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 2:4 (KJV)
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Acts 2:36 (KJV)
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 7:59 (KJV)
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.



15. The Father is the only Immanuel.

Isaiah 8:8 (KJV)
8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Isaiah 8:10 (KJV)
10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.



16. Jesus is the only Immanuel/Emmanuel.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23 (KJV)
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Acts 15:14 (KJV)
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
2 Timothy 2:16 (KJV)
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.



17. Jesus did all work in His Father's name.

John 10:25 (KJV)
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


18. Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost/Comforter.

John 14:26 (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Ephesians 3:14-15 (KJV)
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,



19. The Holy Spirit/Ghost/Comforter was the Father of Jesus.

Matthew 1:18 (KJV)
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:20 (KJV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 1:35 (KJV)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.



20. Jesus is the Comforter.

Notice in these following verses that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is to come to the disciples yet it is Jesus who is the one coming back to live inside of them.

John 14:16-18 (KJV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (Note: In the original Greek reading this verse actually reads: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another way to be comforted". [W. E. Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words - The word Comforter or Consoler corresponds to the name 'Menahem', given by the Hebrews to the Messiah, so every Jew at that time knew who and what that 'comforter' is and would be - Jesus Himself] and then in verses 18 and 28 we see what that other way is, it is Jesus in spirit form coming back to live within us. Remember in Hebrews 13:5 Paul speaking of the Lord, who we know is Jesus, quotes part of 1 Kings 8:57 "for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" and by these verses we see that Jesus never left us but lives in us via our own personal Pentecostal experience of Acts 2 as the Holy Ghost/Spirit.)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:28 (KJV)
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.



21. The Father is the 'I am he'.

Isaiah 41:4 (KJV)
4 Who hath wrought and done itbr /> ...

[Rev. Joyce Irvin Harris, M.Div.]

The doctrine of the Trinity is inferred biblically and codified through Tertullian and the early Church Councils. So the answer is BOTH. As for your assessment of the Christian church having no connection to Jesus, I find such patently false. The Catholic Church traces its history to Peter, one of the original 12. However, even if it's more accurate to speak of the Catholic Church being an offspring of Paul's missionary ventures, it is still connected through Pauline theology to the Messiah. Hence it and those Protestant traditions that sprang from it is Kingdom legitimate.

Of course, I suspect that we'll agree to disagree on this issue.

[Rev. Joyce Irvin Harris, M.Div.]

We stand in agreement that God is One as stated in the Hebrew scripture known as the Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4. The Christian understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity does not dispute that HaShem is One. It speaks of the one God manifesting or relating to us through three distinct personas.

[James Pierce]

It's my opinion that the doctrine of what we call the "Trinity" has been misunderstood for centuries. I think many christians misunderstand the creeds, and councils concerning the trinity. The truth is that God is not a trinity at all. None of the creeds, or tertullian, and especially the apostles, used the word trinity.

God himself is not 3 "persons". God is one. You have The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father(John 8:42). They are from the Father, and are of the Father, but they themselves is not the Father. When the Son, and the Spirit is speaking, and are in action, they are not doing these things of their own accord, but of what the Father says and does.

Jesus is the very words of God. Jesus is God's Logos---word, wisdom, reason. He is God's divine expression(Hebrews 1). It was not God that became flesh, but it was his word(John 1:14). The word is God in the sense of it being the exact expression of God(John 1:1).

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as well. He is of the substance of God himself.

God did not divide himself as Father, Son, and Spirit. That is clearly false, and to many, a misunderstanding of it.

About the Catholic Church. I can agree that God's church is the Catholic Church. The word Catholic means universal, and the early church, at least the 3rd and 4th century Christian Churches, referred themselves as the Catholic(Universal) Church. The phrase Catholic Church became sour, and rotten, when the word Roman was added to it, thus giving the world the RCC(Roman Catholic Church). It is the RCC that is drenched in paganism.

But, a real understanding of God, and his relation to the Son, and the Holy Spirit is essential to the faith.

God, Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE, and not 3.

God bless

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

If you were to understand something about the Council of Nicea, you would understand that ALL the Bishops from all the other regions were present. This was not a Roman Catholic doctrine, but a BODY OF CHRIST doctrine. Only 2 Bishops disagreed and soon after they were excommunicated.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

How are you brother? The concil of Nicea were a council in the 4th century. In other words, you skipped about 260 yrs of past church history, and what they believed. This council, to my understanding, were not Jewish, rather, they were all Gentile. According to Hebraic understanding, Yahweh was, and will never be a "trinity". I believe that Christians should refrain from using that word.

The sh'ma, in Duet 6, states that the Adonai our Yahweh is one. The hebrew for word is Echad. Echad does mean a compound unity. But, you must ask... A unity of what? According to Hebrew scholars, it is a plurality of majesty, which displays his power. He truly is the Elohim(mighty one) The first 15 bishops pf Jerusalem were all Jewish, and they brought the Hebraic understanding to the Gentiles living in Jerusalem.

It was not only until the Jewish revolt. with Bar Kokba, in 135ad, when the Church everywhere, including Jerusalem, were becoming predominatley Gentile. The result, Greco-Roman doctrine, and teaching, dominated the Church of Yahweh, and booted out any jewishness of it. Then you have the Council of Nicea, with only Greco-Roman understanding of the scriptures, to give us the doctrine of the "trinity". I will not use that word in regards to Yahweh, for it truly is pagan. I would rather explain Yahweh, and how is unified with his Davar(word), and his Ruach Hakodesh(Holy Spirit), instead of using a paganistic word such as "trinity.

Shalom Aleichem(peace to you),
Yaakov Ben Yahweh

[John]

Too much scholarly intelligence when it comes to God for me meaning man's education, history and such that seems to come before God's teaching and understanding. Personally and I'm done with this conversation but I'll take 1John 5:7 - 8; John 10:30; John 17:11, 21 - 24; Gal 3:28 to my grave. Man's education, wisdom and understanding is corrupt not God's. God bless you all and my prayer is for all to come to God's Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding and realize that man is a liar and like Satan the author of confusion full of his own self.

[James Pierce]

John,

Whats up man.. long time? It would not be safe to say that our conversations here too much scholarly intelligence, for that disrespects those who put their time in, and work hard in their studying to come to an understanding of Yah's word. Brother, the bible does not have all the answers, and so you must study hebrew language, culture, and philosophy to better understand the scriptures. If you believe that you will know Yah's word without studying Hebrew language, culture, and philosophy, then you are out of luck, for which it is safe to say; being that Hebrew culture is 3,000 yrs removed from ours.

Brother, I hope that you study truthfully, all aspects of the Hebrew understanding, and not rely on Greco-Roman understanding of the scriptures, which has plaqued the church for a milenia. Do not get caught in,"Well i'll just read the bible, and it will show me all answers." That is a lie from Satan, and you must not take heed to it. Study brother, ALL aspects of the Hebrew people, and you will be blessed.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The funny thing is this: YAHWEH is not GOD of the Jews only, but of the Gentiles as well! For us to understand YAHWEH, HE cannot be simply limited to the Hebrew mentality and culture, otherwise HE would have had absolutely NO Gentile thought within it. This would boot out a host of people:

-King Melchizedek
-Noah
-Luke
-Silas
-King Nebuchadnezzar
-Titus

By your standpoint, the only way I can understand GOD is if I were from the tribe of Reuben, Gad, Levi, Judah, Simeon, or any of the rest of the 12. Yes, the Bishops were from the Greco-Roman empire, but there were Jewish leaders that stated the SAME EXACT THING.

JESUS called Himself the Son of GOD, declared that the FATHER was greater than Him, and even called us HIS brothers and sisters. If HE were the FATHER, then why call us HIS brothers/sisters and joint heirs? Who will HE inherit the Kingdom from if HE is the FATHER? Apostle Paul said in 1st Corinthians 15 that JESUS will submit to the FATHER and give the kingdom back to HIM.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Forgive me If I did not make myself clear enough. I never said in order to understand Yahweh and his word, you must be from a Tribe, and or you must be Jewish. My words were that if you want to understand Yah's word, then you must understand it from a "Hebraic understanding". There are many books that will help you understand the scriptures from Jewish eyes, for the scriptures were written in their culture, understanding, and language.

It is true that Gentiles dominated the church, but as I told another Brother, Greco-Roman understanding dominated with them. The Jewish understanding of the scriptures were virtually gone from the church. There were no Jewish leaders in the council of Nicea. If there were, trust me, half of the doctrines we have today would not be so. Yahweh truly does communicate to Gentiles, the Gospel message, at the same time, its up to many of us to give them the original, Hebraic meanings of the scriptures, and thats exactly what my job is, and doing.. to bring Christians back to the law of God in full obedience to it.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

So in other words, the only understand of the true and living GOD is from a Hebrew's eyes? I TRULY beg to differ!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

The scriptures were written by Hebrews. If you want to understand the scriptures, then you must understand it from a Hebraic perspective, otherwise you will be swimming up the creek with no raft. You can make it up the creek, but the struggle is tight.