I think it is very important that preachers of today need to be seminary trained .

i say that because there are no more dumb folk in the church and i feel that it is a sad day for the preacher if he has somebody in the congregation that knows more about the bible than the preacher. Also i feel that if the pulpit is dumb then the pews are dumb.

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Please those of you who feel having a curriculum in school about the Word is a higher learning feel that I am demeaning you I'm not. It is the Holy Spirit that teaches us God's Word and truths and not man's education. Our wisdom is foolishness to God. Education leads to having man's traditions and viewpoints. Personally I would rather be taught by the Holy Spirit than man any day of the week. Man's education always leads to a false since of knowledge and intelligence. We have people with Doctorate degrees or those that graduated with honors and A's but can't servive without having a job (security blanket). They can't run a business of their own and then we have dropouts that have very successful businesses. If getting acronyms such as minister, reverend or what ever title you get for completing Theologian school means something to you then you should go do that. If you feel you get a higher education of God by going to Theologian school then you should go do that. But please dont' feel if one doesnt' then they are less educated in God's Word. If they are truly being blessed by the Holy Spirit they will teach with no problems. If you feel you can get a higher understanding of the Holy Spirit at school as opposed to the Holy Spirit teaching you about the Holy Spirit then good for you. I applaud you! I do know ministers that have gone to Theologian Schools and don't know or understand the bible or how to teach or rightly divide God's Word. I know men who didn't go to Bible Schools that are so blessed in God's Word. Schools are man's traditions and not God's. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to go to those schools I'm saying it's doesn't give you the best views of God's Word or teachings necessarily. By all means get an education if you feel it provides you an edge. I'll take the Holy Spirit any day. God bless you all.
John, thanks for your views.....I don't think the issue is do we choose Spirit over Education (and education is not simply a tool of man since ALL knowledge ultimately comes from G-d)....I think the issue is do preachers today (regardless of their own self-perceived spirituality) need some formal education. The matter is not an either-or--all or none. If all schools are the "traditions of man", then wouldn't every preacher who studies books, articles, the internet, or even other preachers also be studying the traditions of men?

If you assume that those who do not go to school are as "educated" as those who do, then one would have to deduce that schooling is of no benifit. In some regards, if one does not know God, then school could be of little benifit to those whom they must teach.

But my question is this John, if a preacher has a gift of revelation, a close walk with God, integrity, AND educational training vs. one who has the same, except NO education, who has, as you term it, "an edge"? I would think that the most balanced person would be the one who has invested much in his or her walk with God, in suffering for the cause, in his or her own peronsal self development, and in walking worthy of the vocation where with he or she has been called by being properly trained and educated. Either one, in nd of itself, anointed but not educated, or educated but not anointed is a menace to the people of God. Why can't we have them both?
I would say that college and seminary isn't for everyone. It surely was, and isn't for me. I am self study, and that fits me. Not everyone is disciplined enough to study by themselves without having someone over them giving them a syllabi.

Whether one goes to seminary, or not. It is the spirit that guides the Christian that wants that hardcore, unbiased truth, and kingdom business will be done!

God bless
Because Bishop,

I take it, you like myself are educated, correct?

But in all the Bible They were all educated and rich . But it mattered not to Adonai. They were all taken from what they knew and re-taught, stripped down and refashioned by the Ruach Ha Kodesh. The simplicity of it all is education is good but Wisdom can only be gained from Yah. Moshe, David, Solomon are just some examples of educated but Wise in the knowledge of Yah through and by Him only.
Thank you for your response! I knew when I replied as I have posted about this in the past that it would be taken wrong and especially by those who have had what we call formal education. In no way am I saying that going to school is wrong or worthless. My statement is that it isnt' the only way. I've had conversations with individuals with formal education in God as they put it who feel they are better equipped to teach about God and my opinion is not in agreement with that. I've seen those men/women that weren't from a school blessed in God's Word and those with the education that weren't and vice versa. I just think when we put God in a box or even our selves we are wrong. I take nothing away from those that go and get the education they feel they need to be equipped but I don't take anything away from those that don't. Just feel God uses who He wills and how he will that's all. I don't agree with so many of the "give me your money preachers" but I can't say what they do is wrong I'm just not in agreement with them and their teachings. I've known pimps (one very popular) that is preaching and preaching "give me your money" but that's between him and God, not him and me. I just don't agree with it. I know God can change us because He's changed/changing me. I know he took Saul who persecuted His church and changed him. I know it's a touchy subject of those who go to school and those who don't and those that feel you can only get the true meaning of words by going back to Greek, Hebrew and whatever and that the English translations are off in it's meaning. I just feel God gives us what is real no matter what language and it's man that misinterprets words and not God. Trust me I"m not as educated in school with God's Word as those that are and have done so and I may be off base but I will ask and voice my opinions and appreciate the replies because I'm trying to get answers. Thank you for the love and response and I mean that.
Pimps come with and without degrees....unfortunately there may be more of them out there than we realize. More often than not, those who are playing folks for the loot are not formally educated--though they have a lot degrees...if you know what I mean. You could start a thread on how to earn a doctorate without ever having been to undergraduate school----LOL...I have a few junk degrees myself...these jive schools GIVE them to you....so they can use your name to bring credibility to their jive schools.....but for me, I HAD to sit my behind down in a class and learn the discipline of being taught and trained, and the discipline of study....I had to earn several REAL degrees in order to obey the will of God for my life--other wise I would have been limited in my knowledge and understanding, in the circles that I must minister in, and in doors that might have otherwise been closed to me....I preached just fine for 15 years without seminary....but additional training opened up my HEAD to recieve MORE revelation.

Bro John, can you define what the "box" is? Could not the refusal to submit to formal eduction also be a means of putting God in a "box"...whatever that means. Exactly what IS the box? I'm sure whatever it is, I have put God in it and even myself in it (I probably do it every day)....but just what IS this box? Now THIS could make for an interesting discussion Bro John.....thanks for hittin' me back (:

Bishop H.
Too funny! I have to stop laughing and so glad you have a sense of humor! I do agree with what you say and understand and appreciate you breaking it down for me in your classroom ethics. Thanks for your sharing and insight.

What I guess I was trying to refer to was the individual telling me he was more equipped in teaching God because he had a formal education was saying if you didn't then you weren't equipped with teaching God because you have to have a school education passing with a grade to do so. That's what I was referring to as being in a box. Now I'm not saying my analogy isn't wrong because I've been wrong before. (I know you find that hard to believe LOL) Thanks again.
Well Bro. John.....like one of my professors told me...what do you call the person who graduated LAST in their class in medical school? DOCTOR! lol....just because we went to school doesn't mean we excelled in school....somebody even graduated LAST in seminary...LOL ..and they call "Doc". I guess the point is we DID learn something by being in school though ....just like the person who finished last in their medical class.

Honestly John, several of the bishops in my circle have not been formally educated---unfortunately, you see this more in pentecostal circles than other main-line denominations. But for real, some of them cats can preach circles around me....I'm actually the baby in the bunch....still -- they often come to me for the hard questions, or for apostolic or psychological advice. Sometimes, because of my training, I am limited in my conversation with them....I actually feel uncomfortable because of how badly and negatively educated preachers are stereotyped and accused of being arrogant. Plus, I don't want to be talking jargon that is unprofitable to the conversation. Ain't that some stuff?


But the beauty is that we ALL learn from each other. They say I challenge them to think....but they challenge me to further study....especially when they shoot that revelation from the hip like that....I'll hear a piece of something that sends me CRAZY--what I hear will drive me to seek God, and to also hit the books....

I think the "box" is any thought, religious or otherwise, that keeps us from pursuing greater knowledge, revelation and wisdom--or that inhibits us from CHANGING. If we think G_d Himself is limited to our itty-bitty knowledge--SURELY that's a box.

We all have been wrong before--and are probably wrong more than we know...adn are probably wrong as much--if not more--than we are right. This is why it behooves us not to assume that we are the only ones who know anything....the more I learn Bro John, the more I find I don't know JACK (or Jill--lol)...that's the beauty of it all....we need each other to learn. It is unfortunate that most of us who have been to seminary are not welcomed to share our knowledge because we are getting beat up or tuned out for having studied. I suppose those who have not been to school feel like they get beat up too. This is a HOT mess ain't it John--lol. We will probably never resolve this issue...so let's talk about something else....

Here's a good one...we will ALL know how "effective" we are by how many folks become better people and better servants because of our LIVES first, and THEN our message.
Once again and PLEASE believe I'm not in any form, shape or fashion putting anyone that goes to school down. To the contrary, I'm simply saying it's not the only way to know God and to be able to teach His Word. God chooses doesnt' He? (this is a question to reply with please and thanks in advance) I just feel that some get the big head in that they have a degree and other don't. Trust me I'm nothing in the scheme of things Sister Hyman, the lowest on the site but one that truly loves God and wants to know Him so I'm don't put anyone down but I feel when I'm in His Word He is showing me something each and everytime. I can read a verse one time and not get anything out of it and then read it again and He shows me what He didn't before. Am I just imagining this? Thanks for your honest responses each and every time and please bare with me ok. I'm only educated from college with man's education and not educated in college from a Seminary so I do have questions. Just want to get educated and that's why I'm on this site.
Ma'am...with all due respect, you are way out of your league. The Holy Spirit has NOT called you to correct me, as you have NO divine authority or jurisdiction over me--- you just THINK you do. G-d has not called you to abuse the scriptures to condemn me. This is an abuse of this forum.

It is by this SAME arrogance of which you have accused me that you that you have taken it upon YOURSELF to correct me. Who are YOU to correct ME--- to talk to me as though I am one of your children? Who do you think YOU are? I am only asking YOU the same questions that you have asked me. Doesn't feel too good, does it?

Obviouisly, you think you are far more than me (and perhaps you are)--and you think you are above Yah, since you think He cannot correct me Himself. You have attacked my reputation and character with personal opinion and offence--this is defamation of character--an infraction of the law, and certainly not the Spirit of G_d. We need not get personal--unless you want me to BLAST you with my personal opinions of you...and prooftext the scripture to do it ---I'll just return your words to you....May your words of accusation and arrogance return unto YOU. Indeed, you cannot bid me shalom when you mean me no good will--this is hypocritical.

Please do not preach to me the scriptures as though I am too stupid to know them for myself (and that's not arrogant)??? You do not know what you do, nor whom you have attacked....but you will. I am not impressed with my degrees--it's just PAPER....but apparently, YOU are offended by them. That's YOUR personal issue...

What is the REAL impetus for your venom---your own religious gender bias? You are condemned by your own words. I STILL maintain that only among OUR people are we persecuted for being educated. Don't HATE --celebrate--and if you cannot do that...move on. I TOO am the prophet of God....so BACK off....this forum is for black preachers, irrespective of gender....

Please do not bother me again....that is not what this forum is for.....by the way, I have been in ministry 28 years...not 15 --(apparently you did not read my comments with understanding). Why do you care about my comments to other preachers who say what EVER they want in this forum? It's been some WILD stuff espoused in this thread, by both the educated and the non-educated--but you had NO words for the uneducated, or the brothers???? hmmmm...

Be it known, the fact that you are the prophet's WIFE is of no consequnce to me....I'm sure it is a blessing to him....but it carries no weight here!

Also, you know nothing of my relationship with G-d....yet you judge me and my walk with Him? Go head Girl --you BAD. Yes, I have been taught by fallible men--so have YOU-- I too am fallible. Has not your fallible husband,the prophet, taught you? We are ALL fallible....yet G-d in His infinite mercy and wisdom chooses to use His own creation for His glory...so I fail to see your point here. If you offended and angry....check yourself! ....."and the confidence of fools shall destroy them...."

....forget all the religious rigormorole....just say "lady, I don't like the way you talked to my husband, because you're a female and he knows more than you"...but don't put G-d in something that CLEARLY is void of ANY of His attributes.

I'll ask you kindly, please do not bother me again....if I am so wrong and you are sooooooo right, then let the Lord correct His OWN servants--but you are not called to do it. You are the one who has over stepped your boundaries.....your husband cannot speak for himself--you are fighting his battles.....you call yourself correcting THIS prophet--yes, YOU have overstepped your boundaries....and thanks for letting me know my degrees (which you seem to discuss more than I do) are precious---I never thought about them that way. Gee thanks!
My sister don't mean to offensive, but where have you read where the sister was arrogant? She is one of the more humble persons who went to seminary!
Shalom Achoti,

Bishop, Now I will give my opinion on the topic at hand here. The Ruach gave you a word on page one to the response that you gave me stating that this is not a forum to condemn.

You have ignored this word and continued your onslaught.

I have read also all the other posts here you have placed but I only answer once as lead by the Ruach. Re-read my posts they are ALL educational.

Humility means to loose to self. If you have your degrees placed behind your name you are not humble you are bragging. In the streets they call it bragging rights. there are many here who have Degrees and do not put them on showcase here. These same people are advocating against this topic.

The First Lady, If I may toot her horn for her, is a Genius probably smarter than you and I. SHE IS RIGHT. You attacked the Hand of Yah without thinking. I have Authority to put those in place that need to. My ministry is not to the masses it is to the Body. I keep complacent because I know if I lost it I could destroy your life with one word. The power that has been given to me I do not take it lightly. To be a Prophet of El Elyon you are accountable for those lives. I was not lead to say those things although I had every intention when i wrote that response. I still do not understand how that came out except by the Ruach HaKodesh. Yah saved your livelyhood! He let you know who you spoke to. HE then convicted you on your so-called covering. If you know who Yah is you have an obligation to teach it! But I see that you refuse to. You tell another who has as many degrees as you that he is "bantering" HOW RUDE! You know as I do that seminary taught you these things but if it didn't then the school was inadequate. These are basic teachings all around the board and anyone with a little bit of knowledge can take a class on it.

So let it be witnessed here, As The Most High Elohim Lives, The Word of El Elyon is to be Faithful! You will teach the truth or be yea cursed for not teaching it. You will follow the Commandments or be yea cursed for not abiding in HIS presence. This is the WILL and WORD of El Elyon.

Now be yea fruitful and multiply. Be not dismayed for the Word of Adonai is Truth! For I have tried The Ruach By The Ruach.

Shavuah Tov Lehitra'ot Xavera

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