I think it is very important that preachers of today need to be seminary trained .

[Delbert Vaughn]

i say that because there are no more dumb folk in the church and i feel that it is a sad day for the preacher if he has somebody in the congregation that knows more about the bible than the preacher. Also i feel that if the pulpit is dumb then the pews are dumb.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

CHIEF APOSTLE, AND BISHOP, And you have been trained and well suited. Confused if anything. In the order of God, I think not. The Holy Ghost, Guides and teaches in everything, according to the Word, Servant happens not to be a subject nor degree offered in your seminaries. It is most likely the fault of not reading and comprehending, that many do not know that the Apostles did not worry of the daily administration of the Church.. You most likely could have been taught some lies{God is truth, and every man a liar}. Too maximize GOD'sS call on your life submit yourself {mind,body,and spirit}. and see what they call you.lol they called the true Apostles un-learned men, after they witnessed the power{call} of God upon them. What does Seminary teach you that others in a book haven't all ready, the difference is truth and falsehood, lies. With God we learn too discern{as in know the difference} between what is God and not God...

[John]

Welcome back Brother West! Been a while since you, Brother Moreh and I have been here at the same time. Much love and peace.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Elder Scottt: you exlaimed,

"Why would I join a Church where the Pastor places to high a value on an education that I have not had the priviledge to get.and therefore limits how he preceives my calling or my effectiveness, be it in ministry or some other form of Church committment"....all I can say is WOW!

Why would you sit under a leader who FAILED to influence of his or her congregants to be all they could be? Since the heart of the black community and family has always been the black church, why would you pursue a leader who placed so little value on education (since this is one area that will lift our people)? I do not understand, and perhaps do not need to....but I would hope that people would not discriminate against me because I value education and migrate to another leader SIMPLY because he or she doesn't. Could you have generalized a few of your personal experiences and perceptions to all preachers who are educated, Elder? You make some good points, however. Not all who attend seminary are called to preach. By the same token, not all who CHOOSE NOT to go are called either. There are those with questionable callings irespective of education. However, this is not the issue that has been raised for this forum.

Since more preachers are NOT seminary trained than ARE, then this cannot be the reason that the church is not reaching out to people who need it the MOST (and we have NO way of knowing who they are except by the Spirit). To assume that those who need it most are those in the "poverty stricken inner cities" is stereotypical thinking at best. Conversely, I could make that same assumption: Maybe the reaosn why the church cannot reach out to the people who need it the most (the highly educated and successful) is because of our own unadeucated selves. Some of the most arrogant preachers I have seen have not been the most educated--that's for sure. Arrogance comes in ALL forms--lol--and when we see the educated being arrogant--it's just "educated arrogance"--the character flaw was there before schooling.

Most people in this country have had the opportunity or chance to educate themselves to some degree or another. It's just that they have either chosen other paths, chosen NOT to, or simply did not believe that they could do it. Not all of us who went to seminary were priviledged. At the time I went, I had been preaching 10 or better...and my decision to go was greatly influenced by my EDUCATED pastor and Bishop. It was no pic-nic Elder. I was BROKE....some days not knowing how I was going to eat. I had NO money to go to school--I borrowed it, and cleaned white folks' apartments after they moved out of them. Yup, the "national evangelist" cleaned toilets so she could go to school. That was not privilege--It was purpose! I did not agree with my leaders' pushing me to go to seminary but I was too afraid of God to disobey, and to presume I knew more than they.

Eccl. says that time and chance (opportunity) come to every man...many who did not further their education decieve themselves into believing they did not have the opportunity, chance, time or money (just as I did for 10 years). It all boils down to what people are willing to give up or pay to better themselves (whether that be seminary, college, bible school, on-line study, seminars, conferences or whatever).

What I find most disturbing about OUR people is that the church is the only place where their OWN people are criticized for chosing to educate themselves. What a pity. We used to celebrate our educated because we lived through them vicariously.

I suppose people will never agree on this issue....to each his or her own. The bottom line great Elder is this: If EVERY one would do EXACTLY what God tells them to do in preparation, sanctification, and dedication for ministry, what EVER that is, we would ALL be the better for it--wouldn't you agree? Thanks for sharing Elder.

[Angela]

When you are looking, where are you looking: When you are seeking, where are you seeking; If we are looking that means we are doing some preparation of our own. When Jesus was 12, I'm sure He knew all, but he still sat at the feet of Teachers, asking questions learning. The bible says people perish for a lack of knowledge. Knowledge consist of facts, ideas, truths, and education broadens your knowledge; Education gives you an abundance of knowledge. Education is bringing out of you that which is already in you. I'm not suggesting that its required to be effective, I'm just suggesting that the its good to get an abundance of knowledge. If you are preaching about the fig tree; or the Cedar of Lebanon, scripture doesn't expound on how figs grow; When you did deep, you find out more about the fig tree; Even the palm tree.

[Delbert Vaughn]

brother west i am praying for you...

[Christopher L. McCall]

Brother Vaughn, the only reason that I can see that many don't want to continue in higher learning is because they are afraid of their own potential. Seminary is not set up to "take your Jesus away," however, it provides for the individual a more critical way for the individual to look at Christianity and other faiths. If one is not willing to open him/herself to a greater understanding of who God is and study with some of the great theologians, what happens with the person when a church member comes to them with a topic of conversation that they are not even knowledgeable about. "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us... As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

[Pastor Melvin King]

Higher learning is the bomb! Im all for higher learning but is seminary really higher learning? I have ascertained to higher learning. I just didn't go to the cemetary. When I was a young preacher, about 24 years ago, I was very busy as an evangelist. I was quite popular and sought after. God had deposited in me a wisdom and understanding of His word that blew my mind. Before this, I had no understanding. I would go to bible studies, and church school functions trying to gleen as it were from others who I deemed to be great teachers. Yet my understanding was unfruitful. I was attending college at the time. I would be sitting on the side of my bed studying my psycology book, or business Law, or maybe anatomy and physiology. By the way I was named among the most consumate philosophers of my class. But my desire was for the Word of God. I would cry nightly. Like David, I desired His Word more than my necessary food. I considered going to seminary maybe I can learn there. But one night with my bible in my hand sitting on the side of my bed, I began to cry-out aloud for understanding of God's word. The tears were unstoppable. I was poured out like water. And when I was done pleading and crying, I said to my soul. I'm going to open this bible, and if I do not understand, I will not preach, as God had just called me to ministry. And when I opened the book, it was as scales had fallen from my eyes, and I recieved a revelation of God's Word. I was so excited. I wanted even more then to go to seminary, so that I could show them my "stuff" but God spoke to me and said, I shall teach you. What I have to show you cannot be mixed. So I didn't go. I was sought after by many churches to preach meetings, conventions, seminars and the like. But the men who I honored the most, began to blackball me because I was different. I would not conform. The young preachers in our area, upon being called to ministry were immediately recruited to seminary. I honestly did not have the time. between school and preaching, and having a LIFE, I just didn't see it possible. Besides, God told me not to. So while seminary is the right choice for some, it is not always the right choice for all. My potential has not been stifled for the lack of seminary. Seminary preachers come to me often for answers. Study and pray. That's all we really need to do. Seminary don't teach biology, physiology, child development, the way of a man with a woman, botany,ecthimology, medical science, anatomy and physiology, business, etc. These things also make a good preacher. Study and stay aware of current events, be focused and if you have any questions, Ask God. and keep asking him until you can hear Him. Some people use seminary as an excuse for not being able to hear and recognize the Voice of God. Love you Brother. Stay strong in the Lord. I do see a great man in you. I dare you to put down your outline, and let God open up the heavens and set a scroll before you when you preach, and watch His mysteries, even the deep things of God unravel before your eyes, and all that hear you will find the knowledge of God, and be blessed. Peace and be blesed.
Pastor Melvin.

[Ryan D. McDonald, Sr.]

Well said Rev. McCall!

[Dr. Linda Holliday]

Please know that this is not a debate on my part.

Jesus Christ is the greatest tutor and Master In this great ministry he has called us too. He spoke to Peter in Matt. 16:18 Because Jehovah God revealed to Peter who Jesus Christ was and he turns to Peter and say Upon this rock I will build my church emphasis on "I". he gave the power to the disciples to cast out unclean spirits in Matt 10:1 and He sent them into the highways and byways.
God's People are not looking for our theology their looking for deliverance.

We must study to show ourselves approved when we are to preach the gospel to the lost, and seemingly hopeless. But you must be prepared to be use of the Holy Spirit when you are called upon by Him. He as called yes, But he has chosen and given the Apostle, Pastor , the Prophet, and Evangelist, to the perfecting of the Body of Christ. He also gave the teacher to edify the Body this teacher was to only speak the oracles of God which is the wisdom of God and not man's philosophy or doctrine.

God used Me to raise a Dead man to Life and it took the Power of the Holy Spirit and me hearing the voice of God instructing me. That, that man would live.
Higher Learning is great and I am not against it But ask yourselves how much of it do you use to destroy yokes and burdens.how much of it When it it time to lay hands on the sick that they would rise from their infirmities. When I pray for people in wheel chairs and those walking with a cane or a walker and instantly the Healing Power of God over takes them and they began to walk uninhibited.
Yes I am Dr. Linda Holliday but that means nothing to God. But He does honor my prayer, fasting and times of Conseration and my dedicated life so he can use this yielded vessel.

The Logos word has no power but that Ramah is Fresh Living Water from the Holy Spirit.
Ask Him to Breathe on all Your Theology and your seminary studies that you too will have the scale lifted from your eyes and ears that you may really be use of God.

many went to school because it was such a way to make money, get a pretty cute wife to stand by your side dress her up in her Saint John suits call her first lady, build the mega building to blind the people of God to still their money and off you go You can become a Bishop in a few months.

That is not God's intentions for the salvation of the saints of God.... There is a famine in this land for the Spirit of Truth and we the true Prophets of God Need to stand up and say so.....

I Challenge you wonderful people of God of Higher learning to Seek the Holy Spirit and not be those Pastors that God speaks about In the Book Jerimiah and the book of Ezekiel

He set the watchman in Ezekiel to bring the warning to the house of Isarel Hear the Word of the Lord.....
Dr. Linda Holliday Apostle/Pastor /Evangelist

[William Glass Jr]

I would think that any preacher wo does not pursue education is failing to equip themselves with the necessary tools to lead Gods people. The prophets had a school.The diciples had a school. We have schools. Were you called or chosen? many are called but few are chosen the chosen ones seek higher education in the craft that God has gifted them with. You will only limit yourself and put a ceiling on who you can minister to without it
God bless

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

Oh contrare, my brother check the record again, read the word and notice the men whom God used for His good pleasure.

[Pastor Melvin King]

The Wisdom of God is greater than the wisdom of men. Are you not taught in your seminaries that a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump? Who can honestly tell me there is no leaven in the seminaries. I say, all preachers pursue an education. But should all pursue after seminary? I think not. Does seminary empower me to judge my brother as a failure in the work of God because he himself did not attend? But what saith the scripture? "Who are we that we should judge another mans servant? He belongs to God. The necessary tools to lead God's people come from God. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God. God did not gift me with a craft. He gifted me with His anointing. And that same anointing teaches me what I need to know to prosper HIS work. Trust me brother. There is no ceiling. If the people can speak and understand english, the language that I speak, I can minister to them. The truth of the matter is this. Some of us need not consort with men (where there is leaven and much inflation of pride) for the knowledge of God and the work of the ministry. We need to go somewhere and get alone with God, and get some anointing. It's not going to happen in the seminary. God anoints you when you are alone. The prophets of old had schools, and the disciples had schools. This is true. But this was what their educational system offered. This is how they learned to read, and to write. A man with a GED is as apt to preach, teach, and understand God's word as a man with a PHD. And I sincerely hope my brother that you are humble in spirit enough to write a recant regarding the statement you made, But I do not charge it to your heart. You just don't know any better. There are hundreds of people on this network, and all of them did not go to seminary, but they are beautiful. and you are too. "Beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel... "
Pastor Melvin