I think it is very important that preachers of today need to be seminary trained .

[Delbert Vaughn]

i say that because there are no more dumb folk in the church and i feel that it is a sad day for the preacher if he has somebody in the congregation that knows more about the bible than the preacher. Also i feel that if the pulpit is dumb then the pews are dumb.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

I asked you not to write me again...and again, your words be returned unto YOU.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

You can destroy me with ONE word of your mouth--yet Yah has spared me life.....yet you claim you are speaking the words of the Spirit...well if this is so, then the Lord has contradicted Himself....not so....this is exactly as you said--YOUR opinion....throwing around your prophetic weight and treatening my life is but a power play used to exalt yourself, debase me, itimidate me and the like....none of which are characteristic of the G-D you say you speak for. So curse me all you wanty...let G_d be true and EVERY man a liar (even if that's me--but let G-D be true). Guess the Lord told you that your wife was a genious and smarter than me too? Now Yah, who created all, and created all knowledge has told you to compare our intellects...apparently she is not a bright as you purport because she put her mouth on me---she is embarrased that we are the same sex....and CLAIMS that this is the Spirit of God (the same one who created me as a women). This is but another attempt to degrade, demean, and exalt one's self as being superior.

The placing of degrees behind my name is no more prideful than you placing --PROPHET OF THE LORD in front of yours or me placing Bishop or Apostle in front of mine. Would not the simple desgination of prophet have been enough? The use of these things are to bring order, accountability, and flow in the body. As a former university instructor and as a psychologist, the use of letters is a standard protocol and has NOTHING to do with a person's character--just their qualifications, rank, and area of expertise --in the same regard as they are used among the theological and scholarly community, and in the same regards as you use your title. I have not discussed my degrees, so why are YOU? Are you blasting the brothers who list theirs?

I take no issue with the use of your title --because it is needed so people will know what to expect of you, your area of knowledge, gifting and expertise. So, if I am a braggard, then so are you.

Since you are right in your OWN eyes, and are a prophet of truth --trying the spirit by the spirit is not scriptural.....neither is the use of "first lady"....it is a tradition of men.

I categorically renounce your words to me--and return them to you--if they are good for me, then certauinly, they are good for you. I too know the power and accuracy of my mouth Sir-- but why would I need to BRAG about what my words could do to YOU? It's arrogance, yet you stand as my accuser, making it clear to this whole LIST of preachers that you could have destroyed me with one word out of YOUR mouth....if that is not an abuse of power and position, AND disrespect and abuse of this forum, this thread and other preachers who are here, what is?

You called me rude, arrogant, and essentially rebellious....again this is defamation of character! You have disrespected my gender, apostleship, and my bishopric. You said the Holy Spirit revealed to me who you were, and convicted me--well you must be equating yourself with the Holy Spirit--YOU said you were the prophet of the Lord, and YOU have convicted me. None of what you said happened.

You are wrong in this regard also---just because you are given to the Body does not mean that you have jurisdiction over it in it's entirety.. G_d has given us a specific territories in which to govern....I am not YOURS to curse or correct...just like I cannot bring a word of correction to you....but I also CANNOT let you and your wife defame my character and trash my name--that is of another spirit...

Indeed Prophet, you KNOW how every prophet is defamed, persecuted,and misunderstood. These factors alone should have caused us to form an alliance --not a war. It is a pity! We could have learned from each other--but you will probably never admit to being able to learn from this woman.

By the way, the bantering I was speaking about DID happen....the stuff was not directed to me, but was becoming very fleshly and personal....for one preacher to call another a MORON---that is personal. Any prophet worth his or her own weight would have called for a cease fire---and that's what I did.

You do not know what I teach....You do not know who has more degrees than I since I have not listed them all....after while Prophet...it ALL gets boring...even to me....lol This was no disrespect to my brother Moreh, if that is to whom you refer....it was he who was called out of his name, so I called for a cease fire...and it was getting personal both ways. Again, you have misconstrued facts and slayed my reputation based on such.

Since apparently you are my enemy, judge, convictor, and offender, it is probably better than we refrain from anymore conversation lest G_d judge us BOTH harshly for the improper and harsh use of our mouths.

[Apostle Robert L. Mitchell III]

First and foremost i would like to say that my first and last Pastor Whom I love Is my Mother, Pastor of Beauty for Ashes International Ministries. Being a woman has nothing to do with it and yes she has just as many degrees.

I have not spoken harsh to you. The truth does hurt at times but it is needed to stand in the gap. I am glad that you have wisdom. You should have taken the peace offering that I left in your box though.

I will only repeat what I have already said. Wisdom is knowledge and leads to understanding. I have not personally bashed you. I am open to correction if I am wrong. You have taken out of context what has been said by me. I stated that; after i read your comment my flesh rose but I was put into submission by the Ruach so the message that I left was without my feelings. I also said that she was right in what she said because you have asked people, myself included, to stop all the bashing and bantering, but you are still debating? to say someone is "smarter than you and I" WOW I don't see how that is bad---like you said congratulate don't hate. Our people is the People Of Yah, no exceptions. You played the race card that will offend others here on this site as well. But you did that defamation to your own character.

What you fail to see is that there is a very thin line to tread.

NOW let's get to the Grit. You already stated things that were far worse than what I said I was capable of, just go and read them. You need not curse a person to bring ill fortune

I stated responsibility of that position and how the enemy tempted me to do you wrong! Did I not say these things. Did I not say that; My responsibility is to the people, if I didn't then show me! Did I not say that I wanted to say something else but I was brought to submission. As I read that is what it says. I never said that I was beyond the temptation of flesh. You have not used WISDOM NOR UNDERSTANDING IN ALL THAT I HAVE SAID.

The prophets position is not to always bring a good word. The Majority of the Prophets brought a word of destruction. And a major Prophet brought it to the Nation as a Whole. Yah's territory the last time I checked was the Universe. HaShem sends us where he would have us it is not our choice. And we say as HaShem sees fit there is no exceptions. And yes, I say this in the light not in the dark cause there is nothing to hide. When I gave my opinion I let it be known. So other than this one of two posts that I personally have made to you I have only spoke The Word in the first and Confessed in the second. To tell another your intentions to them and how you were convicted is not a crime and neither is it bragging or boasting it is what is called humility. This is where I sinned against you! It was in my Heart because the pride of man arouse But YHWH put me in place. I learned in that post not to step across the line. But you have not listened.

"Touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm". This is you is it not?
Which is the reason why I have said nothing bad nor done.

this is what you should have done, not what you did.

Matt 18:15-16....
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

And this is for the Scripture you say does not exist and is a Tradition of man.

1 John 4
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

So we do try the Spirit! And only the Spirit of Truth can give you revelation to truth! I have always, like I said, stayed in the Scripture. So according to the Word nothing I have said contradicts it.

In all you have said, you have to follow the rules! Just as I have followed them! Their is no exception for anyone.

[Cynthia Williams]

The word of God said study to show thou self approval unto God! The word have I ponder in my heart! When You are called anointed and appointed by God It's already done!, but it is ok to delight meaning to study more. If you want a closer walk in anything you do ! You work hard at it!!! So all depending where your faith is in God. If You have crazy faith that God will open up your understanding go for it, If you think you need a teacher to teach you! go for it. God will lead and guide you in what should me done.

Blessings
Minister Cynthia

[John]

I totally agree with what you said. All I'm saying is "to study to show thou self approved unto God" does that necessarily mean a school or does it mean His Holy Word? You have to study His Word over and over and over until you die to get the understanding He will provide to you wouldn't you agree. It's not some dead book that you read once and have it all! I'm not saying you shouldn't go to a school if that's what is good for you. I'm saying you don't have to in order to get His understanding of His Word because it's Him that gives you His understanding, wisdom and knowledge of His Word and not man no matter where you get it. So please don't take what I say as a slap in the face to those that feel they need to go to school to get that. I am not saying that at all. I'm saying if you dont go to any of those schools He can/will still give His understanding, wisdom and knowledge to you if you are real and serious. This is not for you but I've had ministers calling me a layman because I made a comment about Theologian schooling before like I had blasphemed against them and that was not the case. Egos can get involved and I understand that it's just that I'm not talking against schooling period. I'm saying it's not the only way to be blessed by God in His Word. He will teach you if you are receptive. I truly believe that, that's all. I know what He's done for me. Much Love and Peace.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

John, unfortunately, just as it was in the days when Jesus walked the earth, there are "educated" fools. LOL I totally understand where you are coming from and what you are trying to express here and I do not take offense to what you have said (and I'm in seminary -- LOL). There are sooooo many ways that God can and does teach us, be it a formal school, be it every day life, be it through nature, through science, etc. We limit Him when we ... limit Him to our preferences.

Seminary training for those who wish to preach or teach... is it necessary... NO. Is it profitable... ABSOLUTELY. Can you be effective without it... OF COURSE. Is it impossible for the Holy Spirit to "teach" you through another person... such as in seminary... of course not. Wisdom comes from God and if you allow Him to teach you directly or indirectly through a willing vessel... hey... more power to you.

There are some (and John I don't mean you) but there are some who believe they are more "spiritual" because they don't go to seminary. That too is and over inflated ego that is focused on self and not on the work of the ministry nor the leading of the Lord.

The correct attitude should be... "not my will but Thy will be done" however God chooses for the individual.

I'm all for the Holy Spirit teaching me Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic, and church administration and legal issues facing the church and an understanding of biblical times culture, etc. He can teach me these and many other things directly.. just He and I or He can teach me these things through a person.

Can God use a person who has formal biblical training more or less than one who doesn't? Whose measuring stick are we using, ours or His?

And why in the world are we comparing our apples and oranges instead of making wonderful fruit salad and feeding the world? Don't we see that the bait of Satan is offense? That by keeping us offended with one another, he makes us ineffective for the kingdom.

[John]

Oh thank you my beautiful Sister! This is all I was trying to say though you more eloquently stated so much better. That's all I intended to get across (and I sometimes don't) was that God chooses and not us. He is in control. No way was I saying it's not good to go to school only that it doesn't provide the only way. I agree with everything you stated. Satan is always at work isn't he? Thank you for not taking it personally. You will be a good soldier I can tell. I pray that God continues to bless you and work through you in all you do and all He chooses for you to do and be. God bless you.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Ach Moreh, why don't you start a thread abou the Shabbat, and/or the feast days? There, you guys can battle it out there without all of us having to be subject to this banter, as so many of us us are essentially dissinterested in dialogue. Those who are interested, can join you in the forum you create. What do you think about that idea?
Bishop H.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

The laws of God cannot be abolished...I'm not with the "grace" covers it all stuff either. That's not my issue.....who called you racist, or worse? I do not think that of you....that's what I'M usually called--LOL!!!!

I just asked if you could start another forum about it, so those who want to, may freely dialogue with you. This forum was supposed to be about whether preachers need to be educated --that's all.

Oh my, where did all this OTHER stuff come from dear Brother? I am not among your accusers....I have no stones (though I feel like your people have thrown a few at us---I guess you feel the same way too). Ach Moreh, we have dialogued....have we not? I t hought you knew by now that I am not proponent of the lies that have been perpetuated by western Christianity....or any other religion, for that matter, that keeps us from THINKING, and acting responsibly. As you can see, I too have been attacked because I have studied, and have been called "even WORSE" too because I do not preach what others try to MAKE me preach (so that they all can remain comfortably ignorant). Those who go against the grain are always persecuted. It just seems like we keep going in the same circle....and nothing is being accomplished....you are right about that. It is getting STALE.

Talking about seminary cannot save a soul....no more than arguing over what day the shabbat is on can....I think we've missed the whole principle behind it anyway. That is not why the question was posed in the first place...I think the brother was saying in sense, it's TOO much ignorance coming from the pulpit....I too am saying the same thing; I think you too are saying the same thing. I thought if you started your own thread on the Shabbat and the feast days, it might be more benificial to us all. If it didn't matter at all, I certainly would have not suggested you start a discussion on it. Folks preached lies to me, but I STILL got saved--they preached holiness to me, albeit with some ignorance, as I too teach with some degree of ignorance (because I do not know it all--not even half of it all). But can't we move on to something else....maybe we will fare better on another subject...this is becoming quite unpleasant.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

You are too funny Moreh....it is good to know you have a sense of humor. Now Brother, what label did you hear me call myself by? In the words the the honorable Min. Louis Farrakhan (and it is a TRUTH)....G_d is not a Jewish God, a Hebrew God, a Christian God, nor a Muslim God--He is the G_d of the Righteous! We cannot ALL defect --Just as Yeshua did not defect...he stayed IN His religion and brought truth to it--the true Spirit of it as G_d intended... The most damage done to a system is not from those who attack it from the outside, but from those who are from within. Yeshua did this--did he not? ....this is the venue and people to which I have been called....I can find fault in all religion Moreh, probably yours too-- and in all interpretation of the Law...there is probably some flaws too.

But if we cannot dialogue (since G_d has not given ANY one group a monopoly over the revelation of Himself), we cannot ever truly learn G_d. I think it is truth in most religions and "YEAST" in the same....it is my job to deal with the yeast in mine, and yet still find a way to point people back to their creator...helping them become fully human and yet divine.

I called for a cease fire when you were called out of your name --and asked even that we allow no one to draw us out into our flesh like that. Yet your people slandered me for doing so...so what is a girl supposed to do? I did speak out-- and was BLASTED

Yes, Moreh -- these things ARE repetitious...it was getting a little stale--I do understand multitasking too-- you can almost forget WHAT thread or even what website you're posting on.

Perhaps people do not know how to take you (as I said to you in an earlier post because nobody else responded to you--LOL)....it seems we are the ones being attacked ---yet you feel like you are being attacked.....what is a girl supposed to do? I can't fix this mess, and in trying to --I have gotten attacked....this is one HOT mess, and we know it is the Spirit of the Lord Sabboath.....so I give up --it's not even worth my time....this one is WAYYYYY bigger than ME....I'll let you guys HAVE it...lol Someone posted earlier, and the brother was right--seems we will never agree on the education piece--that battle is too old....and it seems to bring the worse out in us--now WHAT is THAT Moreh?

.....Ach Moreh....bats and stones????...........HAHAHAHA....that is too funny....sounds like we are talking about the Flintstone Age--ROFL.....I suppose preachers fighting among themselves is as old as that if not older....

I have enjoyed your humor here. Thanks!
Bishop H.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

HallejuYAH,,,,,I am LOVIN the hallelu-God....ROFL

[Ryan D. McDonald, Sr.]

Jesus died at 3p.m. Joseph took his body some time after. It is my interpretation that it took probably a couple of hours to take him down and bury him, meaning that he was buried early Thursday morning. (1 day) Thursday night (1 night)
Friday morning and night. (2 days and 2 nights) Saturday morning and night (3 days and three nights) And got uuuuuppp wiith alllllll p oowwer! Didn't he do it, yes he did!