Acts 15 & The Jerusalem Council. What did they really decide on??
I would like to address the problem of Acts 15. Make sure all of your pre-conceived understandings of what I am about to say are set aside, and open your mind. Before one jumps forward to the conclusion of Acts 15, one must ask themselves,"Why did the Jerusalem council come together, and what was the problem?" The problem is laid out in Acts 15's premise, verses 1-2:
Acts 15:1-2,"But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
As we see here in Acts 15's premise, the reason why this council of Jerusalem came together, was because certain men were teaching that If you are not circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. Paul and the Apostles came together to discuss this very matter., and its so much to the reasons they came together.
First off, we have to consider some key things before actually diving into Acts 15. Background information is critical here. Notice that these men, who were most likely Jews, was teaching that circumcision saves you, and that it is according to the custom of Moses. I have come to tell you that there is not one single verse in God's law that even hints that circumcision saves a person.
The bible does shows us that God commanded his people to be circumised, because it is the sign of the covenant He made with Abraham. The consequence of not being circumcised was being cut off from his people, and not be apart of Israel, and the covenant. The scripture states In Genesis 17:10-13,"And this is the covenant which you shall fully keep between Me and you, and between your descendants after you for their generations; every male of you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised by you, every male throughout your generations, and the servant born in the house and he that is bought with money, of every son of a stranger, who is not of your offspring. He that is born in your house, and he that is bought with money shall surely be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."
The scripture clealy shows us what circumcision really is according to the written law of Moses, and not from traditions. Get circumcised as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant. Each person, including the Gentiles that went with Israel, had to undergo this commandment.
The bible shows us that Abraham was saved before circumcision was ever a law. Romans 4:3 states,"Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” You can attest to this fact. So, the premise of Act s 15 is really showing us that its not actually the written custom of Moses that tells us salvation comes through circumcision, rather, it is the written customs of man that teaches this.
Take note of Jesus' words in Mark 7:6-8: This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.
Notice the phrase where Jesus said that they leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men. That's exactly what's happening here in Acts 15. It is the mere posing of man's traditions on the followers of Jesus and the Israelites. And so they are bringing these traditions into question at the council. These traditions are what ancient, and modern Rabbis refer to as "fences", which guard around the written law to conceal the truth of actual interpretation.
Another key thing to understand is that Jews back then, and even in this day and age, still hold the Oral law(Talmud) in higher esteem than the actual written law that is outlined in the 1st five books of the bible. In their world, and today's world, a Rabbi's word will take 1st place over,"This is what the LORD says, or it is written." This is the exact background of Acts 15.
So, now you understand that its not the custom of Moses that command circumcision for salvation, but its the custom of man that does, for Jesus said,"You leav e the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.
Now, the Apostles are there confronting this very premise, and Peter made the truth of the Gospel very clear to them all. He stated this truth in Acts 15:11,"But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
Do you see that? Peter refuted any salvation by the law, and made the Gospel statement, that we are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, and that the Gentiles will be saved the same way. Paul attested to what Peter said concerning salvation in Christ when he said in Eph 2:8-9,"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." There is no separate law, or salvation for the Jew & Gentile. All are one in Christ, and all are saved by Christ, and not the law.
Lets get to the four laws that all the Apostles agreed upon to give the Gentile believers as the intial acceptance into the Messianic Jewish community. It is the common misunderstanding, and possible deception, to believe that these four laws that were given to the Gentiles are the only laws that they will ever have to follow in their walk with Jesus. But, is this actually true?
Let us take a closer look at these 4 laws:
abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols
From scripture, and historical background information, we know t hat things that have been sacrificed to idols are food. Even Jews are not to eat anything sacrificed to pagan gods. In the Greco-Roman world, this practice was carried out in the pagan temples, where they would have feasts, and eat meat that was given to idol gods for their own pleasures. This actually breaks the 1st commandment in Exodus 20:3,"You shall have no other gods beside Me".
from blood
Dealing with Blood, Lev 17:12,"Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘No soul of you shall eat blood, and the stranger that abides among you shall not eat blood." Technically, the Apostles were agreeing that Gentiles follow Torah here. The word stranger here refers to Gentile peoples, for the record. If Gentiles are to live with, and be in covenant with Hebrews, then they are to adhere to their laws.
from what has been strangled
To get a clear understanding of what this actually means, one must look into the culture of the Greco-Roman people. It is shown that when these pagans do their sacrifices to eat them, they would strangle the animal, and technically, blood will be trapped in their flesh. The animal is not properly drained. Jews were commanded to stay away from this as well. Them eating strangled animals will violate the command to not eat blood. Thus, Gentiles were commanded to keep Torah here.
from sexual immorality
Lev 18 clearly gives us laws dealing with sex, and that Jews should stay away from any sexual conduct that violates Torah. Gentiles were to do the same thing, and hence, they are following Torah on here.
What am I showing? I am showing that Gentiles still obeyed Torah, and I am also showing you that these four laws were what the pagans actually did. In other words, they ate meat given to idols, things strangled, ate blood, and fornicated.
But why give them just these four laws to obey? The answer is interesting here.
Jews of that time were already offended that uncircumcised people(Gentiles) were going into the courts, and synagogues, learning their laws. They did not even want to be around Gentiles. In order to not offend the Jewish community, and, in other words, make them feel good, the Apostles wanted these Gentiles to keep these four basic laws that everyone agreed on to get them accepted into the community. By the Apostles agreeing to these four laws, they would be accepted by the Jews, and this would lead to the understanding of verse 21.
James also states a great statement that most Christians miss. He stated in acts 15:21,"For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
In other words, Every city has someone teaching God's laws every Sabbath, and eventually, the Gentile believer would learn of their new God, and his laws every sabbath. In fact, this is the only time they could hear the Old Testament---The Sabbath! By doing this, th ese new Gentile believers would also be learning about the Sabbath day and how to keep it. It would not make sense to cram every law of the Torah down their thrats right then and there, therefore, they would learn all the law every Sabbath. James gave those laws to get them accepted into the community, and to start them off with the law, which is the right thing to do with Gentiles who were not born into the Hebrew faith.
One may mention Acts 15:10 where it talks about putting yokes around the necks of the Apostles, and others that want to follow God. The yoke is not the law of God. The Law of God was never looked on as a yoke of burden. If that was true, then all the prophets would have been in trouble, and they would not have blessed God's law. Paul said in Romans 3:31,"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." Its no use to uphold a law that is burdensome, and cannot be kept. God's word declares that we can keep his law, and its not a burden. Duet 30:11,"For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off."
In fact, Paul stated in romans 7:12,"So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." No burden at all. 1 John 5:3 states that Gods commandments are NOT burdensome. So, the yoke he mentions is not referring to the Law itself, but of the TRADITIONS OF MAN, which these traditions forces the law to become a burden to men.
This is why they did not want to put everything on these new Gentile believers. They would eventually learn the Law every Sabbath(Acts 15:21), so that they will learn the TRUTH of the law so that it would not be a burden resulting from Men's traditions. I believe I have addressed this problem of Acts 15, and I hope your mind stays open to learning of the wonders of God's holy law and prophets, for it is the foundation for which all of God's word incepts(begins).
1 John 5:3,"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."
Shalom
Acts 15:1-2,"But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
As we see here in Acts 15's premise, the reason why this council of Jerusalem came together, was because certain men were teaching that If you are not circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. Paul and the Apostles came together to discuss this very matter., and its so much to the reasons they came together.
First off, we have to consider some key things before actually diving into Acts 15. Background information is critical here. Notice that these men, who were most likely Jews, was teaching that circumcision saves you, and that it is according to the custom of Moses. I have come to tell you that there is not one single verse in God's law that even hints that circumcision saves a person.
The bible does shows us that God commanded his people to be circumised, because it is the sign of the covenant He made with Abraham. The consequence of not being circumcised was being cut off from his people, and not be apart of Israel, and the covenant. The scripture states In Genesis 17:10-13,"And this is the covenant which you shall fully keep between Me and you, and between your descendants after you for their generations; every male of you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised by you, every male throughout your generations, and the servant born in the house and he that is bought with money, of every son of a stranger, who is not of your offspring. He that is born in your house, and he that is bought with money shall surely be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."
The scripture clealy shows us what circumcision really is according to the written law of Moses, and not from traditions. Get circumcised as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant. Each person, including the Gentiles that went with Israel, had to undergo this commandment.
The bible shows us that Abraham was saved before circumcision was ever a law. Romans 4:3 states,"Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” You can attest to this fact. So, the premise of Act s 15 is really showing us that its not actually the written custom of Moses that tells us salvation comes through circumcision, rather, it is the written customs of man that teaches this.
Take note of Jesus' words in Mark 7:6-8: This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.
Notice the phrase where Jesus said that they leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men. That's exactly what's happening here in Acts 15. It is the mere posing of man's traditions on the followers of Jesus and the Israelites. And so they are bringing these traditions into question at the council. These traditions are what ancient, and modern Rabbis refer to as "fences", which guard around the written law to conceal the truth of actual interpretation.
Another key thing to understand is that Jews back then, and even in this day and age, still hold the Oral law(Talmud) in higher esteem than the actual written law that is outlined in the 1st five books of the bible. In their world, and today's world, a Rabbi's word will take 1st place over,"This is what the LORD says, or it is written." This is the exact background of Acts 15.
So, now you understand that its not the custom of Moses that command circumcision for salvation, but its the custom of man that does, for Jesus said,"You leav e the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.
Now, the Apostles are there confronting this very premise, and Peter made the truth of the Gospel very clear to them all. He stated this truth in Acts 15:11,"But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
Do you see that? Peter refuted any salvation by the law, and made the Gospel statement, that we are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, and that the Gentiles will be saved the same way. Paul attested to what Peter said concerning salvation in Christ when he said in Eph 2:8-9,"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." There is no separate law, or salvation for the Jew & Gentile. All are one in Christ, and all are saved by Christ, and not the law.
Lets get to the four laws that all the Apostles agreed upon to give the Gentile believers as the intial acceptance into the Messianic Jewish community. It is the common misunderstanding, and possible deception, to believe that these four laws that were given to the Gentiles are the only laws that they will ever have to follow in their walk with Jesus. But, is this actually true?
Let us take a closer look at these 4 laws:
abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols
From scripture, and historical background information, we know t hat things that have been sacrificed to idols are food. Even Jews are not to eat anything sacrificed to pagan gods. In the Greco-Roman world, this practice was carried out in the pagan temples, where they would have feasts, and eat meat that was given to idol gods for their own pleasures. This actually breaks the 1st commandment in Exodus 20:3,"You shall have no other gods beside Me".
from blood
Dealing with Blood, Lev 17:12,"Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘No soul of you shall eat blood, and the stranger that abides among you shall not eat blood." Technically, the Apostles were agreeing that Gentiles follow Torah here. The word stranger here refers to Gentile peoples, for the record. If Gentiles are to live with, and be in covenant with Hebrews, then they are to adhere to their laws.
from what has been strangled
To get a clear understanding of what this actually means, one must look into the culture of the Greco-Roman people. It is shown that when these pagans do their sacrifices to eat them, they would strangle the animal, and technically, blood will be trapped in their flesh. The animal is not properly drained. Jews were commanded to stay away from this as well. Them eating strangled animals will violate the command to not eat blood. Thus, Gentiles were commanded to keep Torah here.
from sexual immorality
Lev 18 clearly gives us laws dealing with sex, and that Jews should stay away from any sexual conduct that violates Torah. Gentiles were to do the same thing, and hence, they are following Torah on here.
What am I showing? I am showing that Gentiles still obeyed Torah, and I am also showing you that these four laws were what the pagans actually did. In other words, they ate meat given to idols, things strangled, ate blood, and fornicated.
But why give them just these four laws to obey? The answer is interesting here.
Jews of that time were already offended that uncircumcised people(Gentiles) were going into the courts, and synagogues, learning their laws. They did not even want to be around Gentiles. In order to not offend the Jewish community, and, in other words, make them feel good, the Apostles wanted these Gentiles to keep these four basic laws that everyone agreed on to get them accepted into the community. By the Apostles agreeing to these four laws, they would be accepted by the Jews, and this would lead to the understanding of verse 21.
James also states a great statement that most Christians miss. He stated in acts 15:21,"For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
In other words, Every city has someone teaching God's laws every Sabbath, and eventually, the Gentile believer would learn of their new God, and his laws every sabbath. In fact, this is the only time they could hear the Old Testament---The Sabbath! By doing this, th ese new Gentile believers would also be learning about the Sabbath day and how to keep it. It would not make sense to cram every law of the Torah down their thrats right then and there, therefore, they would learn all the law every Sabbath. James gave those laws to get them accepted into the community, and to start them off with the law, which is the right thing to do with Gentiles who were not born into the Hebrew faith.
One may mention Acts 15:10 where it talks about putting yokes around the necks of the Apostles, and others that want to follow God. The yoke is not the law of God. The Law of God was never looked on as a yoke of burden. If that was true, then all the prophets would have been in trouble, and they would not have blessed God's law. Paul said in Romans 3:31,"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." Its no use to uphold a law that is burdensome, and cannot be kept. God's word declares that we can keep his law, and its not a burden. Duet 30:11,"For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off."
In fact, Paul stated in romans 7:12,"So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." No burden at all. 1 John 5:3 states that Gods commandments are NOT burdensome. So, the yoke he mentions is not referring to the Law itself, but of the TRADITIONS OF MAN, which these traditions forces the law to become a burden to men.
This is why they did not want to put everything on these new Gentile believers. They would eventually learn the Law every Sabbath(Acts 15:21), so that they will learn the TRUTH of the law so that it would not be a burden resulting from Men's traditions. I believe I have addressed this problem of Acts 15, and I hope your mind stays open to learning of the wonders of God's holy law and prophets, for it is the foundation for which all of God's word incepts(begins).
1 John 5:3,"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."
Shalom
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by James Pierce on
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Hey Yuri,
Yes, one can ever not be of the seed. Seeds do die, and they can die. Each man has a free choice to either walk away from the Lord, or stay with him. The scriptures say if we disown him, he will disown us. But, to go back to the foundation of the NT--- The Law & The Prophets, Duet 30 has a different story to paint. I call this chapter the teaching chapter of choice.
Duet 30:15-21,"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
God lays out the choices we have. Yahweh says he lays before us life and good(The Blessing), and the death and evil(The Curse). Whether a person is saved or not, if they choose to, by their own free choice, to begin to live the life of death and evil with no desire ever to return, then of course, that seed has died. Yahweh never brings anyone to life against what they themselves desire. James said we are tempted by our OWN desires(James 1:14), which shows our free will. Yahweh does not tempt us.
Ezekiel 18:24,"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."
This scripture also bears witness to the chapter of free choice in the torah. When a righteous man turns from his righteousness, and begins to practice breaking the law, then NONE of his righteous deeds willl be remembered. In other words, when a Christian goes back to law breaking, then none of his good works will be remembered by God. We will either be obedient, and endure to the end, or we will not be obedient, and go back to a life of law breaking. -
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Permalink Reply by Yuri Solomon on
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Sorry... but I'd like us to deal with the scripture at hand, 1 Jn 3:9, and make good sense of it.
The "seed" being spoken of is the eternal seed of eternal birth. How many times can a person experience "eternal birth"? Can a man be born again and again and again and again... or is eternal birth a one time thing like natural birth as it would be in keeping with the analogy rendered? -
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Yuri,
Sorry, but my foundation is in Torah. You only use the NT to support your doctrine of OSAS, but just as Paul told Timothy to use Torah for TEACHING, GUIDANCE, etc... so will I. Torah disproves OSAS. Each man has a choice to either walk away, or to stay(Duet 30).
The "seed" being spoken of is the eternal seed of eternal birth. How many times can a person experience "eternal birth"?
Eternal life is a "gift". You have free will to keep that gift, or to give it up. When you are saved, you will either remain in the blessing, and abandon it to seek after the curse. How many times? Hmmm, that question is kinda foolish. If you are true to the end, then there are no how many times. If you get saved, then 4 years later, leave, then come back, leave, then come back, well I'd truly say you arent really saved, because your heart is unstabled. But GOD is the judge of that situation. -
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Is not the OT but a demly lit room only fully understood in the light of the incarnate Christ?
Does the OT shed light on the NT or the New on the Old?
Is the Torah greater than Christ having come in the flesh? -
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Permalink Reply by Anna on
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Yuri:
Our Messiah IS the Torah having come in the flesh.
He is the LIVING TORAH.
John 1
1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
~~~~~
He came to show us HOW to live and to practice our faith.
Unfortunately, the majority of those who call themselves CHRISTIAN, practice a faith totally foreign to his.
How about you? Yuri, Is your faith a replica or his, or is it patterned after another? If so, who is that Biblical personage or can you find your spiritual role model in the Bible? -
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According to the Book of Hebrews, Jesus Christ is better than Torah. Torah was not able to communicate the spirit of truth... Observance of Torah can only condemn and never saves.
Jesus is indeed the reality of which Torah spoke, (I say spoke pastence because, God hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son) Yet the reality remained a mystery in the mere observance of Torah itself.
Torah kills but Jesus maketh alive...
In following Christ righteousness is found by faith apart from law...
Law is upheld, not in the observance of ordinance, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
Does not Eph 2:14 say "For He is our peace/unity" not Torah, not law, not observances of ordinances! -
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Mark,
I'd like for you to actually address the article at hand, because you have not done so. What do you think of my article on Acts 15?? -
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Yuri:
Have you ever been shown Paul's own testimony, from his own mouth. That he believed everything written in the Law and the Prophets and had never broken any Jewish laws. :
Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Acts 25: 8 Paul argued in his defense, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I committed any offense.”
Do you know what that means?
That means that he lived his life just like Messiah, who did not break any of His Father's commandments.
That means he KEPT THE SABBATH AND THE FESTIVAL DAYS AS WELL AS THE DIETARY LAWS.
Your interpretation of the Pauline texts you have posted is obviously erroneous, unless Paul is either a BOLD FACE LIAR, or a schizophrenic!
Here is a reference to support my posts regarding the NT being full of interpolated texts:
Dr. Constantine Tischendorf says, in his Introduction to the Tauchnitz New Testament: "I have no doubt that very shortly after the books of the New Testament were written, and before they were protected by the authority of the Church, many arbitrary alterations and additions were made in them."
The Great Commission by our Master Himself mandated that the Jews teach the Gentiles WHAT SO EVER HE HAD COMMANDED THEM AS JEWS.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them (GENTILES) to observe (KEEP OBEY HONOR) all things whatsoever I have commanded you (WHO ARE JEWS): and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Yuri, Did Messiah observe and teach His disciples to keep the Sabbath?
Yuri, Did Messiah teach His disciples to eat SWINE?
Yuri, Did Messiah teach His disciples to keep PASSOVER or Christmas and Easter?
He had 40 days after His resurrection to teach the disciples NOT TO KEEP the Father's commandments and or the Sabbath but we find the Apostles keeping the Sabbath throughout the book of Acts and in 1 Cor.
You must decide WHO you are going to obey. The Savior who died for you, who lived His life as the example, model for you to emulate, keeping ALL of His Father's words/ commandments, or will you obey the message in the altered texts of Paul, although from Paul's own mouth, from his own testimony, twice he emphatically stated that he kept the Commandments/Laws which were in the Law and Prophets of our bible, just as our Messiah did.....
Can you give us an example of which Bible character you model your Christian faith after?
Please provide us the individual's name and the book, chapter and verse. -
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According to the Book of Hebrews, Jesus Christ is better than Torah. Torah was not able to communicate the spirit of truth... Observance of Torah can only condemn and never saves.
Yuri, when Anna stated that Jesus is the living Torah, she meant he is the TEACHINGS of God in flesh. Torah, primarily, means teaching. Jesus was better than Torah as far as "salvation" is concerned, but as far as obedience, Jesus was not above the law. Obedience is key, Yuri.
Jesus is indeed the reality of which Torah spoke, (I say spoke pastence because, God hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son) Yet the reality remained a mystery in the mere observance of Torah itself.
Jesus is truly the reality of Torah, amen.
Torah kills but Jesus maketh alive...
The Torah is duality, Yuri. It contains the blessing and the curse. The whole torah does NOT kill, rather, whats contained in the CURSE is what kills. Whats contained in the blessing only gives LIFE AND GOOD.
In following Christ righteousness is found by faith apart from law...
Thats correct, for salvation is not obtained through works of the law. But, this DOES NOT cross out obedience.
Law is upheld, not in the observance of ordinance, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
The law is upheld in all its glort, but to those in Christ are not under the curse of the law. Christ lifted that. But, this DOES NOT cross out obedience to the law.
Does not Eph 2:14 say "For He is our peace/unity" not Torah, not law, not observances of ordinances!
If one does not observe the law for obedience, then you will be told to depart from Jesus. -
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James,
If Torah cannot save, as you acknowledge and only Jesus can save then...
#1 how can you believe that observation of Torah or moreover the failure thereof can trump Jesus?
#2 how can death trump eternal life?
#3 how can things of eternal life ever by nature be in need of that which was only meant to reflect death? -
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how can you believe that observation of Torah or moreover the failure thereof can trump Jesus?
First, you have to show me where I said that Obedience to the Torah trumps Jesus.
how can death trump eternal life?
If you are calling the WHOLE Law death, then you are sadly mistaken. For you to make that claim, then you must call the blessing of the law(life and good), death, but thats a grave contradiction. ONLY the curse of the law contains death and evil. Read Duet 30:15-20.
how can things of eternal life ever by nature be in need of that which was only meant to reflect death?
Again, you make a grave contradiction of the scriptures to believe the whole law is death. That would go against the scriptures such as Romans 7:12 that says the law is HOLY, GOOD, AND RIGHTEOUS, and that would go against the duality of the law that also includes the BLESSING OF THE LAW(LIFE AND GOOD).
Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, Paul was a Pharisee, even after his conversion, to his death. THEY ALL KEPT THE LAW. The new covenant INCLUDES the law(Jeremiah 31:31-34 & Hebrews 8:8-12).
Why are YOU being the antichrist... wanting to change the times, and the law(daniel 7:25)?
Why are you trying to get rid of the decree of the new covenant that says the LAW OF GOD would be on our hearts(govern our choices and lives)?? -
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Anna,
My model for Christianity is the founder himself, who had his disciples to pick and eat corn on the Sabbath, proving that relentless observation of the Torah does not end in life but in death. Such observation of the Torah is void of the spirit, purpose, compassion, love, mercy, peace, etc. of God. #1 it can't be done... #2 it was never meant to be done... #3 Jesus Christ did not do it.
Now moving on…
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Was the problem here that Peter was sitting at the same table with the gentiles while eating only Jewish food? Of course not!!!
He was eating from the gentile table.... eating that which the law forbade...
These were not unconverted Jews that came to visit, but Jews who understood and knew gentiles were now in the fellowship. They had no problem with Peter sitting and eating with Jews. The only hang-up in the New Testament church after the Holy Spirit fail on Gentiles in chapter 10 is "should they have to obey the Torah?" The #1 thing would have been "circumcision"... Now if the Gentiles don't have to obey the command to be circumcised, then every observance which follows that is obsolete as well.
If circumcision is of the "heart" than every other outward sign of distinction such as foods, days, sacrifices, etc. is of the heart as well. It is just that simple.
P.S. I find it interesting that you would attempt to use the NT to prove your point, and at the same time attempt to totally invalidate the NT as unreliable. -
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