Apostleship vs. Apostolic Succession

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

A question was presented to me concerning the Apostleship...my Apostleship in particular.

"Regarding you being an Apostle, can you trace your apostleship back to the original 12 Apostles? If you can please start a new blog, listing all the men in your spiritual genealogy back to one of the 12.

Of what significance is it if the authority behind the hands laid on you, cannot be traced by, man to man to man, through the centuries to the original 12? Black people probably can't trace their spiritual genealogy back past slavery. Then you get into Protestant Europe, then back to the Roman Catholic church.

If you cannot list your spiritual lineage, I suggest that you refrain from using the term "Apostle".

The doctrine/idea this individual has set before me and us all to see is one called Apostolic Succession. This comes from a thought on the Papacy/Bishopric being able to trace its origins all the way back to the original twelve Apostles as a lineage/family tree.

There are several problems with such a doctrine, but for the sake of this conversation, I am going to approach it from the office of the Apostle. We Apostles do not trace our line all the way back from person to person, Apostolic fathers ordaining us along the line as time passes and people die. The Apostleship is not gained by such. Such an idea derives from the thought of a "monarchy", and not from the origin of the office. A king chooses his successor after him to fill the place of rulership.

Contrary to such, the Apostles do not choose who will be the next Apostle down the line. It is the LORD GOD the FATHER, the LORD JESUS, and GOD the HOLY SPIRIT who decide the next Apostle. Only in the case of the 12 did the LORD choose one to replace a fallen Apostle. This Apostle was Matthias (Acts 1). By definition, Judas has to be the Apostolic father of Matthias. This is heresy because Judas was dead already, so there was no "succession", but a replacement. Each Apostle is elected and ordained directly by the LORD JESUS Himself. Man cannot ordain an Apostle, only "affirm" his Apostleship. Paul was not ordained by any man on Earth. James, Peter, and John gave him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, thus affirming their Apostleship (Galatians 2:7-10). If Paul was to trace his Apostleship back to the 12, then he wouldn't have said what he said in Galatians 1, or 1st Corinthians 9:1-2.

It was the Papacy and the "Episcopal Monarchy" that brought about the heresy of Apostolic Succession.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I have to say that, from a biblical understanding, An Apostle is one "who is sent." He is sent under his MASTER'S TEACHINGS. The Apostles went under the teachings of Yeshuah, and what was apart of Yeshuah's teachings? TORAH!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Beat it James! LOL

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

There is so much more to the Apostleship my friend!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Being under the Master's Teaching of TORAH is the foundation.

[Anna]

Tell us what the Bible says are duties of an Apostle.

[Anna]

So, Trevor, Let's get this straight. Here are some questions for you to respond to:

#1) Are you alledging that our Messiah PERSONALLY PICKED YOU OUT to be an APOSTLE, the same way as He did Paul, Peter, James and John?

#2) Did you have a "Damascus Road" experience that you could share with us?

#3) Are you doing "signs and wonders and mighty works" of a Apostle? That is performing miracles, healing of the lame, raising the dead, curing people by cloths that have been on your body? Please share those miracles and mighty works with us, with Physician's names to confirm the healings you have performed.

"Now many signs and wonders were done among the people by the hands of the apostles." (Acts 5:12 RSV)

"The signs of a true apostle were performed among you in all patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works." (2 Corinthians 12:12 RSV)


4) Are you teaching the "apostles doctrines" which included the Sabbath, the biblical dietary laws?
Can you say as Peter did in

Acts 10:14 - But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Chances are, UNLIKE PETER, you have eaten unclean food every day of your life that you have called yourself an "Apostle".

[A.W. Bowman]

Excellent call brother Greene. Also, an excelled note that there were more apostles identified than just the original 12.

[Anna]

Bro Bowman:
What would your response to this verse be, John the Revelator stating that there were ONLY 12 apostles of the Lamb/Yahshua:


Re 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The term Apostle means "

G649 -

1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders

a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ

b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers

1) of Barnabas

2) of Timothy and Silvanus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Undoubtedly the Apostles sent forth delegates, messengers who they could rightly call their "Apostles" just as Yahshua set the pattern when he sent for the 70 others to preach the Gospel, heal and cast out demons, during His earthly ministry.

That in no way puts them on the same ecclesiastical (for the lack of a better term) level as the
"12 Apostles of the Lamb."

Only 12 are referred to as "Apostles of the Lamb" having the foundations of the city of Jerusalem with their names adorning them....

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

No Apostle is called buy the people. The 12 Apostles of the Lamb were merely called that because they were the first twelve to accept their calling into the Apostleship. Contrary to belief, Paul wasn't even the 13th Apostle, or even 14th!!

[Pastor valentine]

I must disagree on two of your points. First the requirements for an apostles can be found in Acts 1 :20-26.
The Apostles today have the same calling, but not the same anoiting as the first twelve (13] Judas iscariot fell by perdtion. Jesus the christ Called Paul on the damascus road. Then Jesus the Christ Anointed paul with that special Anoiting. I mean by Special anointing, they could raise the dead,[ I have yet to see a nowday apostle do this].Call down fire ,Mutiply food etc. also if you read Romans 1:1,
1 Cor 1:1,2Cor 1:1 etc. cleary explaines the Paul was endeed an apostle {13}.The orginal apsotles did not charge money, or accept a special place or postion. they did not sell prayer cloths,patchs,towels, rug's, or even oil.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I have to ask, what exactly does that have to do with the post????? we already know that such things are false...

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Sorry Pastor Valentine, you are in error here in a few places:

-I never said that Paul was not an Apostle. I clearly said that Paul was not the 13th Apostle, and this was proven by his own statement (1st Corinthians 15). Other Apostles had seen the risen LORD and began their ministry before Paul was even saved. Remember, 7 years had passed already between the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of CHRIST, and the conversion of Paul.
-All Apostles have the same anointing, but not the same "mission to fulfill", and therefore not the same gifts.
-Just because you haven't seen someone raise the dead, doesn't mean it doesn't happen! Are you in tune with every single event that happens within the Body of Christ worldwide? If so, PLEASE tell me how you keep track of everyone's ministry so well.....
-As for the selling of those things, what does that have to do with the post??? Yes that is not of GOD, but that was never mentioned in any way shape or form....