Bible Scholars: Can you help me on this?

[praiZe]

I needed a bible with a better concordance while studying yesterday, and I picked up a bible in a home where I serve as Nanny for 3 children.

This family doesn't serve God, but the mother handed me a bible called the New American Bible I thought OK, I've never heard of it, but it's got large letters (the other reason I needed another bible:)

Upon further inspection, I noticed it was a Catholic Bible, containing books I've heard of, but never actually read i.e. Sirach, Tobit, Baruch, the book of Wisdom and a few more.

I was fascinated reading the history of these books! In many of the description there was a notation: "this book is not recognized by the protestant faith"

If the Bible is inspired word of God given to men so that we ALL may come to know him, why aren't all the known books included in mainstream christiandom for our growth and edification?

[Anna]

To All:
Regarding the uncounted numbers of denominations they are, it is just like in Israel of old "everybody is doing what is right in their own eyes...."

To address why we have certain books in our bible, and others were not included, sounds like a study on the history of the cannonization of the Bible is needed here. But more important than that, the content of the books we have need to be clarified. Most Christian denoninations have their Jesus nailing the "law to the cross" yet we are told that the "law" is to be written in our hearts", under the New Covenant. That law is the TORAH, if you will check the Hebrew of Jeremiah 31, for the word "law". The Law in that verse mean Pentetuch or Decalogue, That means the first 5 books, the 10 Commandments. That is what is to be written on your heart. Yet Christians deny that filtering everything they believe through Paul's writings, which they feel denounces the same law that we read is to be written in our hearts and which will also be the laws of the Kingdom of YHWH, if you will check Is.2 & Micha 4. It is undenyable except for those who cannot accept YHWH's law, due to their carnal mind as Paul indicate.

Regarding Catholic Bibles, most didn't know that the man who provided what is called the "recieved text" was a Catholic priest, who got approval of his work from the Pope. So yes you as a Protestant do have a Catholic Bible, just as you have the Catholic Sunday and her other Feast Days of Christmas, Easter, Halloween, New Years Day, etc. None of which you find support in the Bible. Next time you celebrate one of the Catholic Feast days remember the following:

Rom.6
[16] Know ye not, that *to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey*;

Regarding the texts that we are obligated to follow, a little bit of history, for those who are not familiar with the following:

In Messiah's day, and in the days of His apostles, what was the document that were labeled the Scriptures?

What document did the Bereans search when they heard Paul's teaching to see if he was teaching correctly? (If Paul was actually teaching differently from the Scriptures, that they would have gotten a "red flag" and rejected Paul's teaching. Paul was not teaching contrary to Messiah or the OT texts. He didn't come to "upgrade" Messiah's teachings to the degree that Christians claim. Almost without fail, when one mentions a "commandment" that Christians have been taught that they don't need to keep, even though you quote if from the SCRIPTURES, or from Messiah Himself, the Christian's reply for why they don't keep it will be 'WELL PAUL SAID..."

My question is did Paul die for you? Is he your Messiah?

Why do you allow Paul's words as they have been copied or as you percieve them to TRUMP, uproot, overthrough, negate much of what Messiah taught and the lifestyle He lived?

Our Messiah called such a one who hears but does not live by His words a "FOOLISH MAN" in

Matt. 7:26 -
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a FOOLISH MAN, which built his house upon the sand:

So based on whether or not you hear and do His words, you decide what type of man you want to be, wise or foolish....

Paul does not have the "last word" on our faith and doctrines. If you think he does then you might as well call yourselves PAULICANS, because you are definately not following the one you call Christ...

So about the Scriptures, to what document did our Messiah point? It was the writings of the Prophets written before His coming, it contained "every word that proceeded out of YHWH's mouth" which is our obligation to obey, that is what Messiah said, I hope no one disagrees.

Is Messiah the "way, the truth and the life" or is Paul "the way the truth and and the life"? From the pulpit to the pew people need to choose, who they are going to follow.

Even Paul said in "1 Cor.11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Messiah." Paul had to be one who observed YHWH's laws/His torah, otherwise Paul wouldn't hae made the comparison of himself to Messiah. We all know that Messiah kept the Sabbath, this is one texts that tells me that Paul followed Messiah and kept the Sabbath too.

Also Paul stated:

Acts.24
[14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

and also in-

Acts.25
[8] While he (Paul) answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.
~~~~~
Paul would have been a liar, if he said he believed all things written in the law and in the prophets, and that he had not done anything against the "law of the Jews", if he did not believe the Sabbath was holy, a day in which he did no work, and a day he used for worship, and kept it Holy as our Master did. (Contrary to what some teach the Sabbath was ordained to be a Holy Convocation, in the following text: Lev.23:3 "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest,
***a holy convocation*** You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the LORD in all your dwelling places."

Paul said he believed this, does anyone dare call him a Sabbath breaker or say that he taught anyone to break the Sabbath, (or to violate any other laws) contrary to what Messiah taught?

Is there anything in Messiah's words that indicated that the Scriptures of which He highly spoke and believed from which He taught, would become obsolete?

Lastly, to what documents did Paul point Timothy as the source of his doctrines and faith?
Wasn't this after the resurrection?

The answer to all of these previous questions, the documents written from Genesis to Malachi in the Protestant Bibles are the "scriptures" spoken of in the NT.

It is unlikely the authors of the NT even realized that their writings were going to be kept in the manner that they were. The cannon as we know it did not become set until the 400s under the "watch" of the Roman Catholic Church. The "cannon" changed many times up until that point. More on this later...

Here are the verses in the NT that use the word "scriptures":

Matt.21
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matt.22
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matt.26
[54] But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
[56] But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mark.12
[24] And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark.14
[49] I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luke.24
[27] And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
[32] And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John.5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts.17
[2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts.18
[24] And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

[28] For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Rom.1
[2] (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Rom.15
[4] For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Rom.16
[26] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Cor.15
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

2Tim.3
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Pet.3
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[Pastor Rodrick Sweet,ThM]

I think that this is the answer to the question you are looking for! There is no way to have a Bible with an exhaustive concordance in it. The very best thing to do is pick up a concordance to go a long with the Bible that you use. Many concordances are keyed to Strong's numbering system. I hope that helps....
Blessing.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Interesting subject! There are certain books that have been left out due to a lack of belief, not by the "move of the Holy Spirit". One example that I love to mention is the blessed Book of Enoch. Why did they remove a book from the Western Church Canon when the Prophet was quoted by Apostle Jude?

[Dr. Cheryl Durham]

The books you are referring to are called the Apochrypha and are added books that the Catholic Church wanted to use to justify purgatory and extreme unction (last rights). They were rejected by Church Councils as the historical accounts in the books were seen as inaccurate and the Church Council did not see the same 'thread" in them that was apparent in the other books of the canon. Additionally, they were added late. They are books that describe the intertestamental period during the time of the Macabees.

Any good church history course, or book, will give you much more information. The Story of Christianity by Justo Gonzalez can be purchased through amazon at a very reasonable price.

[praiZe]

Dr. Durham,

Since I've posted this, I've done research on the Apochrypha, and have come to understand many of these books do support a belief that is definitely not in line with the God I serve.

However, in every LIE there is a bit of truth, and I believe through the centuries many of the teachings have been rejected in their entirety, neglecting a great resource in the carnage. In other words, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I also believe a babe in Christ, should not be introduced to these books while working out their salvation and personal relationships with God.

As I embark on publishing the parenting magazine "Quite AParent,", and continue to build the platform for SiS - Sisters in Singleness Ministries, I've found treasures of wisdom in many of the passages that speak to issues, and problematic circumstances we struggle with today.

There may be some who read this who'll defer to Gal 5:9, which is mainstream teaching. However not all of Pauls teachings are accepted, and I DON'T want to go there.

I thank God for the Spirit of Discernment, and I thank you for responding and supplying additional resource.

blessings,

praiZe

[Dr. Cheryl Durham]

Forgot to tell you....you can find all kinds of free resources and try out several commentaries and bibles at the following site: www.studylight.org You can also download free software with a complete bible library at:
http://www.bible-explorer.com/

I have it and use it every week to create my bible studies

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Dr. Durham, hello. I have done alot of studies on the Canon of the Western Church as well as the development of the Church from the days of the Book of Acts, on thru history to today's church. The Epistles that were mentioned were not added "late", but were regarded by the very Apostolic Fathers that you and I have grown to respect today: Ignatius of Antioch, Clement, Tertullian, Oregon, and the like. Books like 1st Enoch were older than many of the books of the Bible, older than Job even. Remember the Dead Sea scrolls? One thing that is not often mentioned due to popularity is the fact that Enoch had more manuscripts found there than almost every other traditional book read within our Bible. There are places were in the NT that the Apostles-EVEN JESUS- were found quoting the Book of Enoch.

As for the thought of purgatory, it is a doctrine twisted and misunderstood. The dead all do go to the grave and await the Judgment Day of GOD. The Greek word for the grave is exactly where you get the word Hell from. Hell is NOT the place where you burn for eternity, the lake of Fire is. Hades (Hell) and Gehenna (Lake of Fire) are two totally different places! Revelation 20 says that even Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire after they give up all the dead within them. Once the dead raise up, they will all be judged according to their works, and whosoever doesn't have their name in the Book of Life is cast into the Lake. This indicates that there are people that will be found with their name there that will come from the grave (Hades-literally Hell). Purgatory is just a misunderstood place. But since it is misunderstood, people have cast it out all together! "Kill em all and let GOD sort them out!" is what the Church Councils said. Is that right????

[Anna]

Bro Treavor, Wow, I must say that I agree with most of what you said regarding your view of the state of the dead and eternal punishment, which is not eternal "punishing".

Regarding the book of Enoch, are you aware of the following false teaching it contains:

.........the BOOK OF ENOCH, which teaches that fallen angels had physical intimacy with earthly women that produced offspring 450-feet tall? I don't think so! Without a doubt, the primary claim of the Book of Enoch is that fallen angels had sex with human women and produced 450-feet tall giants upon the earth. This teaching is ridiculous, unscriptural, and has no solid evidence to support it (Biblically or scientifically).

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Truth be told, this does have a lot of truth to it. Have you forgotten a man by the name of Goliath? What of the Nephilim, the giants in the Bible mentioned in Genesis? These are unexplained biblical features, and the reason for them going unexplained and untaught is because they lack the teaching material: The Book of Enoch! I don't know about people be9ing 450 feet tall, but I do know that there were giants.

[Preacher]

hello sister,
the closest bible to the original text God's word, is the KJV. stick to that and maybe use a strongs concordance for clearer understanding.there is only one book thats is inspired by God, this is the bible
God Bless

[Anna]

Bro, Dukonia, why do you so value the KJV, and based upon what evidence do you feel it was inspired by God?
Why do you say it is the closest to the "original text"?

[Preacher]

the original text the of the word of God is inspired by God, this would be the Greek and Hebrew,the KJV of the bible was translated from this, the oldest of these manuscripts, the others were translated from a 2nd translation after the Latin translation,in other words the original text was translated into Latin, then the other translations were translated from that..accept the KJV which was translated from the original Greek and Hebrew.
this makes the KJV supirior to all other translations,although the KJV isn't perfect either, but its the closest to the original language of the bible.

God Bless