Yes it was in California,but I am now COGIC, I concour with the statement Dr. Watsin posted. I don't feel this as a doctrine statement, but more of a reality/actuality statement. If memory serves me correct it was in a religious ethics course.
I make or pass judgement on no one, yet I believe in my spirit that most pepole probaly faulter in this area.Including my self at times. As the old folks would say we need to stay on our knees in constant prayer. I feel many in ministry should be open and honest about this. There is to much Holier than thou going on. I must be real before God First and also the people of God.There is nothing wose than a hypocrite in minsistry. If we do wrong Confess and Repent it before the Lord.
Hi Evangelist apology first of all as I appeared to have deleted your email so my response is not the email you send. Also I must inform you if you are not already aware I am a Sister in Christ of 16 months, I am not a minister, a elder, a pastor or any other ordain member. So I speak purely from my own view point as a member in Christ. I response only because you pose the question to me by email so I have given what I consider to be the best answer I can give, at the end I have analyse what I believe to be the only answer I will offer as every individual have a responsibility to make their own decision on right or wrong as on the day of judgement it's no point me saying but Evangelist Mercury tell me this is how I should be.
The question pose is Can a Pastor Lie? My answer is a bit long winded, but please note my response is as follows base on the scriptures:
Ephesian 4:11- 15
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love
* I guess in Ephesian we can see the role of the calling above therefore base on the above and other scriptures what follows is my answer to your question:
John 21:15-17 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep." The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep".
* We all know that Peter who was charged to be a Shepherd of God’s flock lied when ask if He was one of Jesus Disciples and denied knowing Jesus not once but three times. Now whether or not there are conditions as in Peter’s case that permits a Pastor to lie is not for me to judge that. That may very well be the case as Our Lord already knew that Peter would lie before He charge him as a shepherd of His sheep.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 1 Cor. 3.2
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
*A Shepherds responsibility above is to teach and train the Sheep in righteousness. To be righteous requires us to be truthful. The passages below imply without truth one cannot enter into the kingdom.
Psalm 24: 3-4 ask Who shall ascend into the Hill of the Lord? Or who shall stand in His Holy place. He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully
*With the above passage from the Bible in order to enter the kingdom of God one cannot deal in falsehood as one is required to have a pure heart and not deal in deceitfulness (lie)
2 Tim.4:2-5 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage— with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, and discharge all the duties of your ministry.
*The passage above implies that we need at all times to stand in righteousness even when we are faced with hardship. Even when your flocks want you to sugar coat the word to their liking, you are to keep your head and go on preaching the right things.
Now I note you ask ‘Can a Pastor lie’ not ‘Should a Pastors lie’ neither did you ask are there Pastors who are liars.
* Pastors are like everyone a human being living in the flesh only he has being called to a higher position which carry a far greater reward or punishment than that the sheep’s would face depending on how he leads the flock.
* One of the great things about our God and compare to other religion is our God when He formed us He formed us in His own image so we have a choice in every decision or route we take. Adam and Eve eating from the forbidden tree ensure we became aware of right and wrong which means we have to decide for ourselves the route in which we travelled so ‘Can a Pastor lie’ of course everyone can lie including a Pastor. However should a Pastor lie, in my opinion no but as god gave us the ability to make a choice the Pastor must make his decision as with everyone on the road he wants to follow and where he wants to end up when the final judgement comes.
Actually Pastor Valentine the answer to the question cannot be no as he did not ask if a Pastor should lie he ask Can a Pastor lie and the answer has to be yes because we all can lie, whether we choose to lie or not is where we make the choice to walk in righteosness or not. All human beings are born a sinner and have the ability to lie. Should we lie of course not, should a Pastor lie my answer is definately not, however, God gave us a free will and each person have to choose the route they want to follow, God or satan. We also cannot ignore the circumstance under which Peter lie and was still allowed to Shepherd the sheep so even though to me it should definately be no a Pastor cannot lie, it look like there may be conditions where it may be premissable for them to do so otherwise how do we explain the fact that Jesus knowing Peter would lie still allow him to pastored the sheep..
Pastor's like all human beings have in them the capacity to tell a lie...Only God lacks that capacity -Heb 6:18....God cannot lie. However in this physical human ability Pastor's like all men have the respsibility to tell the truth - Rev 21:8 ...all liars ahall have their part in the lake of fire. Having said Keep in mind there is a big difference between a lie (something said or done for the deliberate purpose of deception) and a mistake or error - Something said or done that was believed to be the truth yet it was not the truth) where there is no "intent to deceive" there is no lie however that does not mean that it was true...if you believe that a Pastor "lied" (a very seriouse offence) in the company of 2 witnesses (respectfully) ask him to clarify himself - and point out what you believe to be the truth- (we has humans are quick to lable it a "lie" when it could have been a simple mis understanding) The Bible in no way condones lying - for any reason! hopes this helps.
Brother Hez I am puzzle the discussion is here so if you have a response why not type it here so we can see why do we need to visit a website for your response. As children of God, one of our major problem is we failed to stand in unity. When are we going to realise that satan's best hope for our downfall is to devide us. United we are too strong for him but devided he has a chance, so come on Brother Hez the discussion is here if you want to respond do it here not somewhere else.
in my experience...pastors lie all the time. as a matter of fact, there are more pastors teaching traditions of man rather than what thus said the Lord. they usually arent hard to pick out if you study for yourself a little.