In the holiness churches of old, the pastor and the church mother were styled as the spiritual parents of the congregation. This certainly was an idealized viewpoint--and reality didn't always match the ideal--but I think the first and second generations of the church would have called the pastor a "father-figure" for certain, and called either the church mother or the first lady a "mother-figure."

When in these days a woman pastors a church, who then fills the role of "father-figure" for the local church? Do female pastors ever appoint a "church father"? Is there any concerned about the male/female balance in their church leadership?

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I agree that the church today is facing a paucity of father-servant leaders, but I do not see a plethora of overbearing "father-lords" risen up in their place. Instead, it looks to me as the spiritual equivalence of "absentee fathers" in leadership. Men too insecure, or too personally compromised, to stake out standards of holiness to which they hold themselves and their congregations accountable. Or women pastoring with nary a male role model in the leadership team. More and more, leaders seem to want to "befriend" the congregation... and their approaches to leadership seem designed to win a popularity contest rather than nurture a flock.

The goal remains for us to use the bible as our measure as we assess our modern churches; if we don't conform to its guidelines, our congregations will remain dysfunctional. The wisdom in Paul's pastoral epistles is being ignored to our detriment.

Joseph,

 

"it looks to me as the spiritual equivalence of "absentee fathers" in leadership" XCELLENT point you make there. So what do you think the remedy to this is, if men wont step up in church or even step into church? There are plenty brothers of every generation in the church I fellowship with, but so many others Ive gone to there are none, or only old men rooted in traditional ways.

 

*Wondering if that last statement is the problem?* having a form of godliness but denying the power of God

Sister Toni, I can identify with your experience. I was "born" into a local church that had a gigantic disparity between the number of women and men, but I have since found a  home where men make up over a third of the congregation. And we're not all wearing turned-around collars, either.

Our pastor has created an atmosphere of responsibility and authority for lay brethren, so that even the sisters expect us to assume the role of leaders in the church family. Pastor throws down the gauntlet every year... we men are to provide the "spiritual covering" for the women and the young people. We must shore up the faithfulness and consistency of the  congregation: first, by exemplifying these traits ourselves, and, second, by requiring the same behavior from our family members. We must be the leaders in financial giving, not falling back into allowing the women's department to shoulder the burden of financing the ministry. We are who's responsible for maintaining the church property, and keeping the worship experience a pleasant and safe one for our families and our visitors.

Pastor imparts to us a portion of his authority, and then holds us accountable to use it. If he is in any way intimidated by delegating to other men, he doesn't show it. He seems to operate with the understanding that "iron sharpens iron": he trains and nurtures men for future leadership. That is why men continue to join our ranks.

Praise our Lord, and Saviour Jesus Christ, our most high God; I Linda ILonzo, who love the Lord with all my heart, soul, and mind, and believe every word that proceedth out of His month.

Far it is written, that not one word, or one tittle of His word, will fall to the ground; I don't understand how you can discuss gender, when God had the prophets to prophesy to His people, about the end times, when He, God will poor out His spirit on all flesh; Far His son's, and daughter's will prophesy. Why do you continue to judge after gender of the flesh? If you are in Jesus, and He Jesus in you, then you would not be having this type of conversation. Our Father in Heaven is looking far a vessel walking before Him with a pure heart, humble like into a little child. A vessel without spot, or wrinkle, that has no guile in the heart; Far it is written, our Father God, has no perspective person; He, God, is looking high, and low far a vessel to step in, and use far the saving of His hurting, ignorant people, who has been trick by satan, to care more far worldly things, than to care, or love the Lord unconditionally, keeping His commandments, and not be worring about who is great, who is rich, who is poor. Please understand, It doesn't matter how rich, or how much word you have in you; If you don't give all your heart to God, and the work He has call, and choosen, and saintified you to do, you are a no-man, a hunk of dirt walking to and throw bumping your head from wall to wall, hear, and there; These are perless times, people need to be healed, delivered, and restored, set free. God is using any one who is willing to do what He say with love, and not complaining, and boasting, like you are all that. Thank about what God has done far you, and where would you be, if He had not reach down and pull you up out of the garbage can, or worse. Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; Seek the Kingdom of heaven, and everthing will fall in place. God bless you with that; Evang. L. ILonzo

I don't understand how you can discuss gender, when God had the prophets to prophesy to His people, about the end times, when He, God will poor out His spirit on all flesh; Far His son's, and daughter's will prophesy.


Evangelist,

We can and should discuss gender because Scripture discusses gender. We have been referencing Titus 2:1-8. Rather than defending the office of the prophetess (an office for women in the church which no one in this thread has attacked or minimized), why not make an analysis of the Titus passage? If we are never to acknowledge gender in the church, why does Paul give gender-specific instructions in that passage?

Praise our Lord, and Saviour Jesus Christ, our Saviour; Who is above all, through all, and in us all; The scripture discusses many other topics too. Like saving souls, and far pastors not to be Lord over God's

people, but preach His word, and not our word; help the women that labor in the Lord;

Some of us talk about what we want to talk about, and not what God give us to speak on; Woe unto the Pastors that feed themselfs, and not the sheep; Talking about gender is not setting the captive free, it is not healing the sick, it is not casting out demons, or raising the dead, feeding the hungry, or bring a homeless person in your home; Or, praying far those in prison; The church is a hospital; If, and when I have to go to the hospital, they are not going to ask about why I am wearing pants, or why I have my hair braided, or ask me if I want a male or female to wait on me; The most important thing the hospital will be concern about, is my recovery; If a homeless

women walk in the church with pants on, will you ask her to leave; Are we under grace, or under the law?

Paul discuss gender specific instructions, not Jesus; And not every time paul was lead our Father. God bless; evang. ILonzo 

 

 

 

 

 

Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, and for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action), So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. [2 Tim. 3:16,17, Amplified]

 

You may be comfortable deciding when Paul's writing is authoritative, and when it is not. I believe everything we read in his epistles was written at the leading of the Holy Spirit. I don't have to be picky about what I believe in the bible; I eat the whole roll.


The holy Apostle Paul rub people the wrong way alot these days, Brother Gill.

If we disregard Pauls writing - then  whats the use of the rest of the scriptures.

Lets disregard Peter's writings and then the Revelation of John.

Its dangerous and pure evil.

 

Again, you're right, Sister. If we can jettison Paul's writing when it becomes inconvenient for our beliefs, what would prevent us stripping out anything else in scripture? It is the fear I would have about being under a woman pastor: I would suspect there are some parts of the bible she'd avoid teaching and preaching.

Oh sitting under a woman pastor is a very insidious deeply spiritual wicked thing.

Dont do it.

Just dont.

Praise our Lord Jesus Christ; Let me reiterate; Everything must be done decent, and in order; Now, for instance, if I was a confuse, and unstable female in desperate need of God's word, I would end up leaving your church the same way I entered  in, because, all I would hear about in God's house of prayer that He put you in charge of is. as a women, all I am fit far is, to have babies, cook, wash clothes, and clean house; I would end up dying before my time far listing to you, telling me how weak I am as a women, and how i must be quiet in the house of God, when I  know far a fact, I been called, chosen, sanctified, and ordained by my Father God, a prophetess to go out and evangelize, and to compell His people to come to Him, no matter what condition they are, in the mind. I mean, shouldn't I obey God, more than man? When He has said in His word, if I don't say what He, God, tell me to say, or do, He will confound me; And, He also said in His word, not to care about what man say or do, but care about the one who will kill you, and cast you into hell; Should I die before my time, and go to hell because you man, walking in your flesh, misquote the scriptures, telling me, God don't want me to preach His word, or to be a leader in the church, because I am a female, when He said in His word, He has no perspective person; Judge after the heart the way God tell us to do, and not after the flesh. It is written, we will know them by the fruit they bear. He that walk in flesh, is none of His; {God"s} We women are the glory of God too; He love us too; He, God uses us far what ever He feel like using us far; We are Christ, and Christ is God.

 If God Has chosen a women of your congregation to preach the gospel, cast out demon's, lay hands on the sick, and they recover, set the captive free, and raising the dead, what does that have to do with you as the leader? Is it not written, that the pastor's are not suppose to be Lord over God's people? And is is not written, that as a leader, that you must help the women that labor in the Lord, and not quench the spirit of our Lord? Shouldn't God, do what ever He want with His own? Who are you, we, to judge another man's servant? Far Christ is all, above all, and through us all; And if we women seek the kindom of our God, asking Him to use us to preach, or prophesy, or teach His word, going out compelling His lost souls to meet Him in the upper room, it shouldn't be question by you, because we are female, or a young male child, or a ninty-two year old man. Remember God used a women, He had cast out seven devils, to go tell His disciples, He has risen, and to to meet Him in the upper room, and they did not believe them, or the young men Jesus walk with, and reveal Himself to, by giving them bread to eat, after praying over it, after they arrived at the village in Emmaus:Luke,24:13-32. You don't question the wonderful works of God; You just follow Him, and live, and declare His works; If you lack wisdom, faith, strengh, ask Him, and you shall receive.My 

 brother, Let us not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, whereby we are sealed until  the day of redemption. We must work while it is light, because when darkness come, no man, or women can work; It is not about our sou, that is already saved, but it is about God's lost souls who He, God love so much, that He gave His only son, Jesus to die far our sins, that who so ever believe in Him, receiving Him, loving Him with all our heart, soul, and mind, shall not perish, but have everlasting life;Amen; God bless you with message; Evangelist L. ILonzo

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Now, for instance, if I was a confuse, and unstable female in desperate need of God's word, I would end up leaving your church the same way I entered  in, because, all I would hear about in God's house of prayer that He put you in charge of is. as a women, all I am fit far is, to have babies, cook, wash clothes, and clean house;

Why do you presume so? Because we teach the whole Word of God? "An unstable female in desperate need of God's word" would find it at my church because we are unafraid of the whole counsel of God.

 

I would end up dying before my time far listing to you, telling me how weak I am as a women, and how i must be quiet in the house of God, when I  know far a fact, I been called, chosen, sanctified, and ordained by my Father God, a prophetess to go out and evangelize, and to compell His people to come to Him, no matter what condition they are, in the mind. I mean, shouldn't I obey God, more than man?

When was it that I told you that you were weak? When was it that I told you that you weren't called of God? When did I say you weren't a prophetess, or evangelist, or preacher, or anything else you profess? I think you read a lot into some very pithy posts, but please be at ease. Nothing I have written was meant to discourage you from being all that God called you to be.

 

 

If God Has chosen a women of your congregation to preach the gospel, cast out demon's, lay hands on the sick, and they recover, set the captive free, and raising the dead, what does that have to do with you as the leader?

I'm not a pastor, but spiritual gifts are distributed through a body of believers as the Holy Ghost decides. Any one person's gifts are a blessing to the church as a whole. I celebrate them.

 

Is it not written, that the pastor's are not suppose to be Lord over God's people?

I think you mean "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:3

 

And is is not written, that as a leader, that you must help the women that labor in the Lord, and not quench the spirit of our Lord?

"And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves." 1 Thessalonians 5:12,13.

"Quench not the Spirit." 1 Thessalonians 5:17

Are these the verses you are thinking of?

 


 brother, Let us not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, whereby we are sealed until  the day of redemption.

When you wrote, "Paul discuss gender specific instructions, not Jesus; And not every time paul was lead our Father," I think you grieved the Spirit of God. Paul is His instrument to enlighten the church. I did not belittle your ministry, but you belittled Paul's.

 

God bless you with message.

 

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