For All to Consider: The Difference Between the FATHER and the SON.....

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

1 Corinthians 15

²²For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 ²³But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

 ²⁴Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 ²⁵For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

 ²⁶The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 ²⁷For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things
under Him.

 ²⁸And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

With all the talk and so-called debate of the Oneness doctrine, vs the Trinity, this verse should come into play. What do those of the P.A.W., U.P.C.I., Apostolic Faith Inc., and all other who adhere to the Oneness doctrine feel concerning this scripture? What is your interpretation? Does this effect your view of the Trinity or the Oneness doctrine in anyway? If so, how?

[Della Morton]

Did Jesus Claim to be the Father?

Call Jesus a liar. Say He did not say it. Believe He did not mean it. Believe the Pope or anyone one else but His words will live on forever!

What did Jesus say about being the Father?

John 8:23-24, 27
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

John 14:6-11
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


Because Jesus as us had a dual nature sometimes He spoke as the Father and at other times He spoke as a man. He had a divine nature and a human nature. There were times Jesus spoke and acted as a man(son of God), there were other times he spoke and acted as being God. Every born again believer also has these two natures. You must be able to decipher what nature was speaking. Was He speaking as God or man? If God uses you to heal the sick the divine nature is in operation but if you are eating dinner your human nature is at work. If you are being a witness to a sinner your divine nature is at work but if you are sleeping your human nature is at work. If you do not understand the dual nature of Christ you will always see God as more than one.

Rev 1:8
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Here is a prophecy that Jesus will return again to the Mount of Olives.

Acts 1:10-11
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Here is a prophecy that Jehovah will come and stand on the Mount of Olives.

Zech 14:4
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Are two coming to stand on the Mount of Olives? No, Jesus as God Almighty the Father is coming once again and will stand on the Mount of Olives!

Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The name Jesus identifies Him as being the father. The name Jesus means "Jehovah has become our salvation".

Yes, Jesus is the Father!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Della TOTALLY TWISTED SCRIPTURES UP in order for the Oneness heresy to survive!! I'll prove it right now!! You said:

John 8:23-24, 27
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

This is nonsense for you left out verses 25, 26, & 27, the scriptures that prove that JESUS was talking about the Father not Himself. Why didn't you quote those? Since you want to dodge them, or maybe you missed it, I'll help you out. This is the ENTIRE portion:


John 8:23-30

23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

27They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

29And He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

30As he spake these words, many believed on him.

[MIN L.C Graham]

who was jesus talking to when he was on the cross and said father not my will but let thy will be done?????????


JUST LET God be glorified. If some of you would spend more time cleaning your lives up than debating the word. the enemy has you where he wants divided. give honor where honor is due.jus proclaim the word. i just wanna get to that prepared place. three four or five i need them all

[Della Morton]

Trevor: Questions about the trinity:
1.) If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time?

2.) If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable) according to the doctrine of the Trinity, how can the reign of the Son have an ending?(I Corinthians 15:24-28).

3.) Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke
1:35). Which one is the true father?

Only three questions,I would like to hear your answers on this concerning the trinity.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

bump

[ShekinahLife]

Mrs Morton writes for Thee answers...1.) If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time?

2.) If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable) according to the doctrine of the Trinity, how can the reign of the Son have an ending?(I Corinthians 15:24-28).

3.) Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke
1:35). Which one is the true father?

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The Hebrew name in the TaNaKh for your Eve' is Chavah which simply means 'Mother of all living"...All living humans She essentially is the Womb of G-d~for all humanity!... That would include the man known as Yeshua /J-sus...
# 1...Yeshua was and will forever be a simple man/ student of G-d who went about doing good....as we all should try to do it is called Tikkun Olam~~
#2 ~You answered your question/// According to the Trinity or Imperial church of Rome would have you believe~)... 1) Maimonides devotes much of the “Guide for the Perplexed” to the fundamental idea that G-d is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. G-d is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes G-d small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity.

As the Torah says: “G-d is not a mortal” (Numbers 23:19).

#3~Yoseph is Yeshua's biological father.Mariam and he went out to the field(As was done in those days) and knocked boots or whatever is the proper term for intimate communion..without the Catholic version that all sex is dirty and our little baby Jesus would not have any of that un-clean stuff)

Also~~To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke. There are four basic problems with this claim:

a) There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third chapter of Luke traces Joseph’s genealogy, not Mary’s.

b) Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn’t help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. Cf. Numbers 1:18; Ezra 2:59.
c) Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendant of David through his son Solomon (II Samuel 7:14; I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6). The third chapter of Luke is irrelevant to this discussion because it describes lineage of David’s son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31) d) Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah. If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a Messianic progenitor. As to trinity it is antisemitic and replacement theology at best... What is true is Sh'ma Israel Deverim 6:v4-9ff

I hope that helps someone~"come out of Her"

[MIN L.C Graham]

1. god the father sent him in the form of man not only to do a work but to be that example that we to can do greater work. remeber god is a smart god. if he had sent jesus as spirit being watever people would have been scared.
2.jesus had to prove himself worthy of the seat next to his father, so therefore we must follow his example if you want title earn dont let man give it to u, he earned that seat next to his father and that was some of the work. we know and it was time for him to go.
3.mary & jospeh didnt have sex to conceive him god the father spoke to them thru angel. you forgot jospeh knew about the birth before it took place. i will give to u a son and you shall call him jesus. so if its one why not say i coming to be born through u you mary and call me jesus........... duh no, the god head is the father of jesus.. joseph was a vessel to be that step in on earth.

JUST LET God be glorified. If some of you would spend more time cleaning your lives up than debating the word. the enemy has you where he wants divided. give honor where honor is due.jus proclaim the word. i just wanna get to that prepared place. three four or five i need them all

[ShekinahLife]

What-so-ever thou accuses another of,..~ Thou doth the same things...




Go study with the real Men...young man Just go and study...The Virgin Birth is a LIE!!! and Rome knows it!!!


You might also find this link to be of interest: The Alexamenos Graffito.

In the literature of the Church Fathers there is, in a book (c. 210 CE) entitled, Minucius Felix, the account of a Gentile Christian named, Octavius, who, whilst walking "along the shore (of the Tiber)," converts to Christianity a man named, Caecilius, "by very weighty arguments." Octavius has this to say to Caecilius:

"For in that you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross, you wander far from the neighbourhood of the truth, in thinking either that a criminal deserved, or that an earthly being was able, to be believed G-d.... Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for. You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners; and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses glided and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it. We assuredly see the sign of a cross, naturally, in the ship when it is carried along with swelling sails, when it glides forward with expanded oars; and when the military yoke is lifted up, it is the sign of a cross; and when a man adores G-d with a pure mind, with handsoutstretched. Thus the sign of the cross either is sustained by a natural reason, or your own religion is formed with respect to it."

Minucius Felix laid the groundwork that Tertullian, the so-called "father of the Latin Church," built upon.

See further:

Pre-Christian Gnosticism: A Survey of the Proposed Evidences by Edwin M. Yamauchi

The Economic and Social Origins of Gnosticism by Henry A. Green

Paul & the Gnostics by Walter Schmithals and John E. Steely

Gnosticism in Corinth: An investigation of the letters to the Corinthians by Walter Schmithals

Review of: Gnosticism, Judaism and Egyptian Christianity

GNOSTICISM, JUDAISM, AND EGYPTIAN CHRISTIANITY by Birger Pearson

No Longer Jews: The Search for Gnostic Origins by Carl B. Smith

When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome by Richard E. Rubenstein…

[Gregory Anderson]

To Mr. Greene and all his 3rinity friend, i will pray that God will reveal his oneness to you before it's too late. I recommend for those who don't know or understand the oneness doctrine to read The Oneness of God by David K. Bernard, you can buy the book or read it online for free, he will break it down so wonderfully even a child could understand it. One other thing before you all read this book pray and ask God to open up your understanding and have your bible you.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Lets lay it down flat: the Oneness doctrine is nothing but a heresy.

[ShekinahLife]

Mr. Green writes: "Lets lay it down flat: the Oneness doctrine is nothing but a heresy. I agree the Xian version of oneness' is flat to say the least

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"Kol Yisrael arevim zeh bazeh." = "All Yisrael is responsible for one another." (Talmud Shavuot 39a)~~~As it should be:
Why I ask does Moshie offer himself to YHVH to redeem the people Israel?..."If you kill them you kill me"
Because Moshie dealt with the reality that they were one! one Humanity~ one species.. that is the real oneness and that brings you to oneness in Ha'Shem Or as your Rabbi stated Yochannon 17:~"I Daven (pray) that you become Echad (one) with ABBA as I am Echad with HaShem~[Slight paraphrase] All Israel is One and the great responsibility of the Bride Israel is She is to carry the Torah truth of YHVH to the world until all is Shabbat [Yom Shekulo Shabbat]
Shema Israel Deut 6:v4-9ff

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This may be of interest~ http://shekinahlife.com/jewish-persecution.html

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Baruch haba b'shem YHVH
We are all the creators son's[ daughters] we are all one, from one, in one.
Only our perception of what and who G-d is keeps us divided,...yet our heart yearns to be one'
Selah

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

OK, let me clear then: The Sabellius Doctrine is Heresy