The Word of God Transforms, If We Would Stop Beating People With Our Bible...and Let The Word of God Do Its Work...We Would Far Better Be Off In The Kingdom...." Ye Who Are Spiritual Restore Them With A Spirit Of Meekness(Gentleness)" Its Peoples Insecurities that Make Them Target Others Bruh...also Ignorance empowers many in the church...its sad to say but its true.
Because they have great taste and are excellent dancers!!!!! Im just kidding!!!! Their are many groups that people hate on. NOt just the gays. Lose women, and men, drinkers, drug users, skin color, and heck can you believe there are people who even hate christians?????
As long as their is air in our lungs man kind will always find a reason to hate. I think if we are going to make a difference in this world we have to find reasons to LOVE. Everyone. Even the homo's, drug abusers, and the fine women and men who do things they shouldnt. We dont have to love their sin or hang out with them but we must love the sinner.
Maybe by our example of love and treating all as equally in Gods love, it will make a difference......YOu know what I take that back. BY TREATING PEOPLE AS GOD HAS COMMANDED US WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!!
I learned a long time ago hate the sin not the sinner gay or not we still have to love them and in love we will win them to jesus but on the flip said like my brother said there are so many other things that are hated in the church and you don't have to be gay to fit in you can be disliked because your just different. A word of advice keep your eyes on god and let him worry about the gays you just do what God has called you to do and maybe you have this burden because god wants you to pray for them and the people who are in the church that mistreat them. Hope this helps God bless.
what do you mean quote Ghandi god tell us to have no thing to do with people like that but does that mean you can't pray for them i don't think so god is a loving god he doesn't want any one to be lost so praying for someone in sin such as being gay not wrong that is still a soul that needs to be saved. do we give up on them pretend they are lost and no hope for them or do we pray. by the way are you following me.lol
Homosexuality and Lesbianism is one of many problems that plagues the Body of Christ. As Christians, and for those of us God saw fit to raise up as shephards and leaders, it is our responsibility to minister to those who may be struggling with their flesh. This is our mandate for all who have fallen into sin, regardless of whether it is perversion, heterosexual lust, gossipping, lying, among the many other sins of mankind. I find that in many instances, we as humans pick which sins we FEEL are the worst of them all. In all honestly, the sole theme of the bible is the fall of man, the coming of Christ, and the redemption of mankind, for ALL sinners who choose to accept him.
Yet, one of the chief issues that have hindered many individuals is that they choose to willingly and purposefully live an un-godly lifestyle, and yet they want to serve as a leader in the church without correction. They believe that any sort of correction is a condemnation, and dare anyone to address their sin. This is true of many sins, not just those engaged in an alternative lifestyle. We do not have a responsibility to judge an individual to heave or hell, yet the Word of God also calls us Watchman who are to be sitting high upon the watchtower for the purpose of protecting, (1) the land, (2) the inhabitants of the Kingdom, namely the Body of Christ. Anyone or anything that threatens that must be exposed.
Exposure sadly too often means hiding our own sin to condemning others. Exposure and Disfellowshipping was only for individuals who purposely chose to continue their lifestyle. As leaders, it should be our primary goal to minister to those who truly want deliverance. Yet, it is up to the individual to work out their own soul's salvation. While Jesus often fellowshipped with people the typical "church person" would condemn, He would always send them off with a Word of both warning and encouragement, by saying, "Go and sin no more."
God is a loving God and we must be a loving people. Remember though, love covers a multitdue of sins, it does not condone it. If we are guided by the Holy Spirit, and agape love abides in us, then we can be effective. It takes more than knowing a scripture or having a title in a church. I believe many are ineffective in ministering to the needs of gays, and people in general b/c truly many aren't really chosen by God. After all, "Many are called, but few are chosen." Truth be told, if we examined ourselves the way we do others, many of us would have to condemn ourselves to hell.
Yes, sin must not be tolerated. Yes, the Body of Christ must be protected. Yes, we must stand on the Word of God or be judged ourselves once we have become knowledgeable. Most importantly though, we must love people so that they might see God through us and want to change.
I agree with you that part of the issue is that homosexuality has been tolerated for the sake of not wanting to hurt people's feeling, or wanting their gift (music, singing, etc) to CONTINUE benefiting the church. There are many pastors who look the other way, and many members who pacify those in alternative lifestyles.
While I agree that we must be governed by love, God also declares in 2 Peter, "Be ye Holy, for I am Holy."
On the other side of the spectrum, there are many pastors who DO NOT look the other way, BUT use whatever abusive language comes to mind to detract people who struggle with homosexuality, which is equally wrong. Using profanity to describe someone, or calling someone a fagot, bull-dagger, or any other derogatory name is not ministering, but is simply a minister using the pulpit to display his/her personal feelings. Beating someone up with the bible is not ministering. I believe one can be direct, un-compromising, and effective without purposely trying to degrade someone's humanity, regardless of the sin.
It is our job to minister. That does not mean that every person we encounter will listen. After all, even the rich man would not accept Jesus term for salvation. While I believe there is nothing wrong with being in the presence of a sinner, for it is through our light that people are able to see Christ, God also commands us to be ye seperate. To be seperate means that we should not be maintaining close friendship or fellowship with those who purposely take a stand against God's Word.
The wheat are being seperated from the tares, and it is time that we individually and corporately examine ourselves, for Christ is coming back soon.
If Christians were honest, they would admit that they do not abide by all the commandments of scripture themselves. I don't mean we try and fail. I mean we deliberately choose to ignore scriptures that are not convenient for our lifestyle. As I pointed out in my post yesterday, the amount of scripture that is ignored, scorned, and abused by modern Christians is appalling.
I think we should afford our homosexual brothers and sisters the same luxury. Perhaps we should offer them space at our bonfire to burn their little handful of scriptures as we burn the bible chapter and verse.
We should all agree that none of us are able or willing to follow all the teachings of scripture. Let the one who is obeying God's word ask for explanations from others.
In my book, that settles the argument, and there is no reason to go further. However, if you are determined to hold homosexuals to a higher standard, demanding detailed explanations of why they do not obey minor parts of the bible while all of Christendom tramples on the very heart of scripture, move on to part two:
Part Two - The Bible and homosexuality:
(I’m indebted to my new friend B. in Dallas for these thoughts)
The bible never addresses the subject of homosexuality. The idea of sexual identity was not a part of human thought until very recently. The bible addresses some specific homosexual acts in very specific contexts.
The idea of two people in a loving, committed homosexual relationship was not understood in the ancient Hebrew world and is not a subject in the bible.
Very credible biblical scholars treat the passages in question as specific commands against specific acts, and not as a wholesale prohibition on a homosexual orientation.
For many people, understanding this obvious limitation of the bible is all that is needed. The bible does not address the broad subject of sexual orientation because it was written before that was an issue. Any specific condemnation of homosexual acts must be seen as just that – a specific condemnation of an act in a specific context.
However, if that sounds too wishy-washy to you, if it sounds too slippery and subjective, let me now speak to all 6 of the passages in the bible that are thought by some people to address the issue of homosexuality.
Part Three – Exegesis
There are exactly 6 scriptures that are thought to address homosexuality. I’ll either quote the passage or provide a link so that you can read it.
The story of the destruction of Sodom – Genesis 19:1-29. If you read this story, you’ll quickly see that the men of the city of Sodom wanted to commit a brutal, homosexual rape (is there any other kind?). We simply cannot condemn a sexual orientation because of a rape. There is a heterosexual rape described in the next passage we will examine together. Shall we condemn heterosexuality because of this rape?
Any reasonable person will understand that this passage has nothing to say about loving, consensual homosexual relationships.
Judges 19:1-30 is a sad story of human evil of the type that are often recounted in scripture. It is basically a retelling of the Sodom story in a different context. This time, however, the men actually did rape a woman. This passage speaks to the need for God's love in a brutal world. It has no bearing on the question of homosexual orientation for the same reason that the Sodom story is not applicable. Both of these stories condemn ignorance and sexual brutality, but not homosexuality.
Texts 3 and 4 are both in Leviticus and make up a part of the Old Testament Levitical code.
Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
The code of rules and behaviors in Leviticus does not apply to Christians. No Christian group I know demands full compliance with this ancient code of behavior. If we did we would have to keep kosher laws. We don’t even demand compliance with the sexual rules in Leviticus. If we did, we would allow polygamy, which is lawful in Leviticus. Unless you are prepared to obey all the rules in Leviticus, you cannot blame the homosexual for not feeling bound to obey them. To point to these two verses and demand selective compliance is ludicrous.
The Old Testament really has nothing specific to say to Christians about homosexuality. We turn now to the New Testament.
Jesus had nothing to say on the subject of homosexuality. His absence of comment does not support or condemn homosexuality. As I’ve noted, the idea of sexual orientation was not a part of human thinking. It’s not surprising that Jesus never addressed what was not an issue.
Paul discusses specific homosexual acts twice. These passages are the only two times homosexual behavior is mentioned in the New Testament.
I Corinthians 6:9 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders”
Male prostitutes and homosexual offenders. Can someone explain to me why we would condemn an entire orientation because of the prohibition of these specific acts?
The Greek words Paul used in this passage include the word for a young, effeminate male prostitute and the word for the older man who paid to have sex with him.
We can acknowledge that the bible condemns prostitution and a system where a younger man makes his living committing sex acts for money with older men. But we cannot condemn homosexuality in general because homosexual prostitution was condemned.
Paul condemns many heterosexual acts in his writings, even in this very verse, yet we do not condemn heterosexuality.
Romans 1:18-29 is the single most important passage dealing with homosexual acts. It is the one most often quoted and it is clearly the closest thing we find to condemnation. Verse 27 is the most specific verse.
I simply ask you to read this entire passage with an open mind. Paul says that those who reject God will be “given over to a shameful lusts”. They will engage in many acts that are not pleasing to God. Men will “burn with lust for one another” (verse 27)
I have seen sexuality perverted and used for evil in many contexts. The faithful and monogamous homosexuals that I know do not burn with lust for other men. They express their sexuality with each other, just as married heterosexuals do.
I don’t know exactly what Paul meant by this passage. I know he was describing people who chose not to worship God and then "burned with lust for other men." I don't know exactly what he meant, but I know this DOES NOT describe the homosexual Christians I know, who love God with great passion and are quietly committed to each other.
Part Four – Conclusion
Those are the 6 passages in the bible that are thought to address the subject of homosexuality. The Old Testament passages amount to nothing and the two New Testament passages are ambiguous at best and highly open to interpretation.
I do not think the bible teaches that every expression of homosexual love is sinful. The scriptural witness on this subject is shaky at best.
Even if you do not buy my claim that we have no right to demand specific explanation of scriptures from homosexuals since we don’t provide similar explanations for the hundreds of passages we blatantly ignore…
Even if you do not agree that the Bible never really addresses the subject of homosexuality as a sexual orientation…
Even if you reject my biblical analysis and decide that the bible is condemning of homosexuals…
Would you at least agree that the passages are ambiguous and open to many interpretations? Would you at least agree that others may responsibly interpret them and not agree with you?
If you could at least acknowledge that scripture is far from clear on this subject, then perhaps you would be willing to err on the side of compassion. Perhaps you would be willing to open your churches to our homosexual brothers and sisters, trusting them to read the bible just as you do, with love and hoping for Grace from God.
I can remember as a child my godfather, a friend of our whole family was a homosexual. At the time I had no idea what that meant. All I saw was someone who loved me and I loved him. This person treated me like his own daughter and he loved me dearly. I can remember being poor as a child but Jody, my godfather always showed up with gifts that would brighten a little girls day. Although I had a sister and a brother at the time, he favored me. This made me feel really special because others in my very own family favored my sister or my brother. But not Jody, I was his baby. For those reading this please understand that Jody was a homosexual man and I was a little girl, so he never harmed me in anyway.
When my mom moved us away we lost touch with Jody even though he was still a friend of our family. I think the last time I saw him I was 8 years old. I later saw him again at my Aunt Rebecca’s house many years later. And right away my cousins started teasing me saying , your god daddy is a F#*%got. I was about 12 or 13 at this time and was already saved at this point. I can remember, that because of my cousins remarks I kept away from Jody. I still wasn’t sure what they were calling him. Unlike today’s generation, I really didn’t know what the true meaning of being gay was. I knew it had to be something bad because of the taunting from my peers. Jody eventually came up to me and said, Why are you avoiding me? I don’t even remember what my response was. That was the last time I say him.
Years after that, my mom told me that Jody had passed away. He had died from Aids. I can remember being so sad because of how I treated him that last time I saw him. I avoided him because of the taunts of my cousins. Even though I was a child I was still saved and had the holy ghost. I should have used that opportunity to tell him about Jesus. Because of how much he loved me I know he would have come to Church with me if I had asked him too. He probably could have gotten saved.
I wanted to share this so it could be understood that I don’t hate Homosexuals. I had one in my life that I loved dearly. However, had I given him the truth about Jesus maybe, he could have been saved. Maybe, he would have ended his homosexual lifestyle through deliverance and sanctification. Maybe, he could have been cleansed from his sins. Maybe he could have received the baptism of the holy ghost. Maybe he wouldn’t have died of Aids. Maybe he wouldn’t have lost his soul.
Had I told him the truth about what the word of God says. Just MAYBE. For the record, I believe that all sin should be addressed according as the word of God speaks. We must preach according to God’s words and not our own convictions. Homosexuality, fornication, adultery, extortion, etc… should all be spoken against.