I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Great! I am gald we finally agree that the words of the song and the music of the song are two elements fused together to convey a unifed thought!

Now let's move on!

The Muse- Music, the inspiration of the theme, pupose and intent of the message. The vehicle in which one arrives offten depicts the nature in which one is perceived. Man judges things based on the "outer appearence" Since we are conveying a thought contrary to the world, we must consider the vehicle that we arrive in.

The Bible says that we are to SHUN the very appearence of evil! so if the culture is evil, if the language of the culture is evil, if the people are the proponants of evil; we who have been redeemed; we who have been delivered; we; who have tasted the purity of the wonderful word of God are required by God to give an answer by reason of the hope! Wat is this answer: Holiness is the answer! what is this Hope; that the blind see, the deaf hear, the wounded are made whole and through the Church the manifold wisdom of God is made known to the world!

Oh my Brothers who have bewitched? Stand fast therefore in the liberty whereith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Run from the flesh, resist the works of the flesh stand fast for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot fo the things that ye would!

Rebuke the devil, resist the devil but for God's sake man don't join the devil, don't pretend to be the devil, don't dress up to look like the devil, don't get into his vehicle?!? please I can't believe this is so hard to understand.

Pray and ask God to give you a Holy Sound to go with his Holy Word and life is good!

Pastor Hodge
Pastor Hodge,

From reading your latest reply it seems that you are advocating that listeners of Christian rap are advocating the unholiness and ungodliness that Snoop Dogg and others are. And that is simply not the truth. However, what I have not seen is refutation of scriptural evidence that I presented in my initial posting (I Corinthians 9:21-22; Acts 17).

What I appreciate about Rev. Miller is that in his response to me on yesterday he said that he did not agree and would not ever agree with my position and I can respect that. However, I believe he doesn't respect my position because tradition has said that my position is wrong no matter what scriptures I present or logical arguments I use. Pastor, I think that you fall into this category. You are stuck in what the older church mothers and Bishops presented to you and there's nothing particularly wrong with that. However, I believe that in accepting the traditions that were passed on to us we must also seek knowledge for ourselves to ensure that they are congruent with scripture.

Quite honestly the Bible doesn't record what kind of sound David was making on his harp just the lyrics it just said he was making music unto God. I respectfully ask that you consider my past argument concerning Gold and answer to that. In discussion we must come to a common ground and it seems we have failed to do that. Again I submit that the Jews expected Jesus to come through on a white horse with kingly clothes to rescue the jewish nation. Instead he became poor that through him we might be rich and they missed him. Could it be that you're also missing God because you're looking for him to com in the way that you think he ought to come? Selah.

Respectfully yours,

Elder Azikiwee Walton
I have to respectfully correct you Elder Walton, it is not necessarily tradition that causes me to be opposed to your way of thinking. It is what I interpret what the Word of God says concerning the attempt to mix worldly things with the way of God. For example, the Bible says that when David danced, he danced in the spirit. My argument therefore deals with what is done in the spirit as oppose to what is done in the flesh. I find it hard to believe that the use and inclusion of worldly hip hop music in the church (despite changing the lyrics to fit the occassion) can be done in the spirit.
Point taken...I apologize if I misquoted your stance. As you said before this is what you believe and what you stand on and I respect that... God bless you.
Bro. Walton,

You reject my position as that of an unlearned, uninformed blind brainless follower of some group of old irrelevent people who fell into some old abstract misguided outdated scriptureless thinking; You label my position as tradition and you expect me to embrace that which abhors rightousness and upholds wickedness? This God's house! This God's business who do think you are? how dare come into the House of God bringing lies in the name of brotherly peace! what you say subtly I'll say plainly:

Your position is from the Devil! and since you hold that same position; you're from the devil! even the Devil quoted scripture...you would have been better accepting Bro. Millers "concealitory tone" I am not here to make friends but to uphold that which is right and holy before God!

I never said at anytime that anyone was advocating the ungodly words of the songs! it is the music that carries the song, that matters and you know this yet you hide behind the screen of politness and throw the stone of obfuscation to blind, intimidate the people of God!

The problem is that most Christians are too nice, too polite, too groomed to deal with this kind of tactic, take that foolishness right back where got it from! It is you who are bringing the question; the burden is on you to provide the scripture for the basis of your position!

Pastor Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge
Pastor Hodge,

I never said that you were unlearned. If you would re-read my post and my prior posts I've not said anyone was unlearned. I did say that these things were rooted in tradition because they are. My biblical proof was Acts 17 and I Corinthians 9:21-22. My biblical proof continues with the redemption of man. God created them to be perfect they fell, sin entered in so God enacted a process called redemption that both you and I have chosen to partake in. Is it not possible to redeem what has been perverted, namely music? If you say no, then you limit the limitless God. If he is able to redeem me from the power, penalty, and presence of sin how much more can he redeem music? I have mentioned this before and will say it again. Music has 12 tones that are used. Music when composed is neither good nor bad. It uses the same pattern for all genres. What makes it good or bad is what you put with the music.

Pastor did you know that when your organist plays behind you when you preach is based off of what musicians call a blues scale? A genre that was reportedly by the church the devil's music. Did you know that the "whoop" that you use to preach the gospel is paired with "the devil's music"?

Concerning tone and subtly I said what I meant there was no pretense within anything that I said. The truth of the matter is that I was under the impression that we were both going to allow ourselves to do as Paul says in Romans 12:10 "[Be] kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another". SInce we wanna call it what it is let's just do that. Pastor Hodge you don't like rap, you think that it is evil and no matter what I show you in the Bible you will continue to belive that until God changes your mind and you know what I'm OK with that. However, I don't want you to think that I'm your enemy. I believe in holy living as well and all of the Christian rap artists I listen to preach it. However, You wouldn't know that because you have already condemened them and their music to hell.
Sir,

It has nothing to do with what I like...I never condemned the rappers to hell...it really is only the spirit of the music, its origin purpose and nature in God's house; The Bible has a problem with that consequently so do I.


Pastor Hodge
"What I appreciate about Rev. Miller is that in his response to me on yesterday he said that he did not agree and would not ever agree with my position and I can respect that. However, I believe he doesn't respect my position because tradition has said that my position is wrong no matter what scriptures I present or logical arguments I use. Pastor, I think that you fall into this category. You are stuck in what the older church mothers and Bishops presented to you and there's nothing particularly wrong with that. However, I believe that in accepting the traditions that were passed on to us we must also seek knowledge for ourselves to ensure that they are congruent with scripture".

Please help me: How should I interpret the above statement?
Pastor Hodge,

Looking at it now, I probably could have said it better. You were saved within the COGIC and I was raised and eventually saved in the same church so I assumed that you were indoctrinated like I was and that was wrong on my part. However, based on my interaction all of my life within the church I was shut out because I was of youthful status and not listened to regardless of the truth of the word that I presented, which is how that statement was framed. For that I apologize.

Let me downshift and try to make this understandable that I may win a brother. Firstly, many older Christians fail to respect the views and thoughts of younger Christians not because they are not basing them on scripture, but because they are coming out of young vessels. This causes a domino effect and creates a break in communication between the young and the old (using that word very gingerly here). So in essence what I was saying was simply because of the age difference the opinion is disregarded. I hope that brings clarity. .
I am sorry you feel that I have a "conciliatory tone" Brother Hodge, but I think we still agree on the same thing. And I believe in what Romans 15: 1 says, "So we who are strong have the duty to bear the weaknesses of those who are not strong..." I believe that we don't somehow make points with God, simply by proving (or trying to prove) that the other person is wrong. I really think that it is biblically correct to at least try to make every effort to avoid giving offense with whom I disagree with. And furthermore, it is easier to be friendlier with those with whom we agree, just look at Bro. Day's and Bro. Anthony's new allegiance towards each other. But it does speak volumes to a man's or woman's character and maturity by how we respond and react to those with whom we disagree. I am not in your words trying to be "conciliatory" I am trying to not smite my fellow-servant, because life is too short for that. We can agree to disagree and not argue with each other as if we are a bunch heathens at the local beer joint around the corner.
Bro. Miller,

Please accept my appologies. You're right perhaps the sword is better than the ax...sometimes.


Pastor Hodge
I believe you and I together with Sister Angela are helping somebody (maybe not Jonathan or Bro. Day) but somebody, and therefore we are doing what we are called to do, We are helping somebody who may have been leaning in the hip hop direction to understand that God requires that things be done decently and in order when it comes to worship in His house. We are that voice crying out in the wilderness, and what I know about the wilderness is that nothing grows there and there are dangers seen and unseen in the wilderness. Some here on this forum desire that we stay in the wilderness, and so I do appreciate all that you have said in the name of the Jesus Christ and His righteousness.

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