I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Brother Anthony,

Thanks for yielding the floor!

Brother Hodge,
First of all, you reveal your immaturity by trying to goad me into a response. I have suffered your rantings gladly in the name of Christian brotherhood but now feel the need to respond in kind.

The Word of God tells us that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty to the pulling down of strongholds. The reason I persist in this debate is that your attitude toward music is a stronghold that, frankly, is ungodly.

Second, the entire basis, theme, and substance of your argument has been that of a religious spirit. The problem with that is that God is not about religion, he's about relationship. Based on your conversation, I don't think you get that.

As for James, he mentioned religion in his text. However, show me where Jesus -- the author and finisher of our faith -- either endorses or condones religion. In fact, he sternly rebukes the religious leaders of His day. They were full of "religion" but had no relationship with God.

For the sake of the souls over which you are a steward, I sincerely pray for a change of heart for you regarding your approach to music. If you're as bound toward other things concerning the Gospel as you are toward music, then your congregation will reflect the same spiritual constipation that you seem to suffer from. It appears you would have your congregation trade the yoke of sin for a yoke of religion. And, to use your "pig" analogy, bondage by any other name is still bondage!

Unlike yourself, Rev. Miller has articulated his position with the grace befitting a true man of God. Although he and I disagree as you and I do, he retorts without the benefit of insult or innuendo. Unfortunately, this is not your testimony.

You still have neither answered mine nor Brother Anthony's questions, nor have you produced a list of what music is acceptable to listen to. You are superb at stating what's wrong but woefully inadequate in proffering a solution.

I will continue to lift you up in prayer and ask God to send laborers into your harvest. It is clear that I am not that laborer.
nor am I but well put my Brother, well put
Like Brother Anthony so eloquently stated, I take my "big boy" pills each morning. And I do, in fact, trust him to respond in my stead because his position and mine on this matter , while certainly not identical, are very similar. I also trust the operation of the Holy Spirit in him.

What I mean by "God-man" is that Jesus was fully God and fully human. Regarding Jesus position on man's "religion," refer to Matthew 23:13-29.

In the meantime, I'll grow old and gray waiting for that list...
Rev. Miller,
Hip-hop doesn't separate us from the world any more than any hymn does. Remember, even satan used scripture to tempt Jesus. It is not the music of hip-hop that either identifies us with or separates us from the world -- IT IS THE LYRICS!!!

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY on this forum is advocating playing Snoop Dogg or 50-Cent in the sanctuary or, for that matter, in our cars. It is artists such as Da Truth and GRITS whom I staunchly defend. You may not like them -- and that's your choice -- but don't trip on them, questioning their effectiveness for the Kingdom. Especially if you have not invested the time to listen to them.

I encourage you to watch the video at the following site:

http://community.24gospel.com/_HOLY-HIP-HOP-/video/778882/5325.html

Then tell me what is ungodly about it.
Good Posting Bro. Day. this brings a clearer a picture of what we are talking about. We are not conformers, we are transformers. We are called to infiltrate the Hip Hop culture and take back what the enemy has stolen. This is an emerging minstry in the black church and this is just the beginning. We are not repackaging the the secular, we have been inspired by the holy spirit to deliver a message, just like a preacher or a prophet. You don't have to like it, but you must respect it when it yields results.

Check this one out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGx1VnMed4A
Brother Day,
I watched the video link you provided, and although it is quite interesting it does nothing to change my opinion. In fact, as I watched the video I seen the world's influence even more so, you mentioned Snoop Dogg and 50-Cent but if it were not for men and women like them there would be no such thing as hip-hop, regardless of whether you call it "holy" or secular. Which tells me that hip hop was born of the world. Concomitantly, it exposes the fact that it is all a part of Satan's strategy to water down the effectiveness of the Church. Satan has been trying to get a toe-hold in the front door of the Church. Now he has found a wide open back door. He has been blindly and enthusiastically welcomed into some our church houses across the nation. We are so preoccupied with the "let's be contemporary" theme that we are unaware that the world is like a gigantic whirlpool, and has sucked us in its orbit and is now, right now dragging us down. Just look what we are doing, we are trying to dress up Christ in the rags of rock, r&b, hip hop. Galatians 5: 17 makes one thing clear for us doesn't it? "For the flesh set its desire against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please" there's a hip hop equation that says, flesh + spirit = spirit, but Scripture says that flesh + spirit = conflict. Brother Day, you say that, "...it is not the music of hip that either identifies us with or separate us from the world - IT IS THE LYRICS!!!", now that's what you said, however my dear brother I most humbly disagree with you. The words or lyrics may say one thing, but the music is saying something else. Here's the problem, the message (lyrics) and the music should blend together. To be effective my brother, they cannot contradict one another. A song, in order to fully relate the intended thought, the lyrics and the music must marry up. Here's another thing, and then I'll be through ( I won't quit) but I'll be through. Young Pastor Jones says, "...you must respect it when it yields results." This is what I meant when I spoke against the use of pragmatism in the Church. It is not our job to try and "yield results" it is for God to add the increase not us, we are called to water not add. With God, we don't need any gimmicks to draw people to church and then count on the results of our own efforts. If we're going to be God's disciples then we need to kiss the world good-bye. We to cease and desist in trying to find something new, when Elijah through God brought down the fire he went back to the old altar, but we don't want to go back to the old altar, to the old vows, to the old commitments because we are always trying to bring in new things. Brother Day, if we spent as much time praying as we do in trying to re-create the Church we would set the whole world on fire. We are so busy coming up with the newest and latest revelations (or what think to be revelations), and expound on them so much with our own words and thinking that (for some us) the Lord God has disappeared in the fog and in these so-called revelations. In closing, is in fact the repackaging of the secular in order to fit in with the Church contrary to Pastor Jones assessment, we ought to just leave those things that are secular alone, and we are to render that which is Caesar's to Caesar, and that which is God's to God.
Bro. Day:


Sir: These are your words:
1. "I agree, there are, and will be, false Christs"
2. I also believe that we should be separate from the world...
3. God Man, who came to earth to destroy religion
4. I extrapolate if there is no liberty, the Holy Spirit is absent from it...
5. When we decide to use this music or that, this program or that, what is the litmus test. Is it truly the Word of God or is it the tradition(s) of men
6. man has successfully build a religion
7. Jesus would be disappointed to see how much of the world the Church has absorbed
8. I think He'd be equally displeased with the religious spirit that holds the Church in bondage
9. Anything less is bondage and manipulation.

These are my questions:
1. can you tell me how Hip Hop separates us FROM the world? I think you said it does not.
2. can you tell me what is spiritual about the Rapp Music?
3. Are you sayiing that I am holding the Church in bondage because I don't agree with you?
4. Man successfully built religion?
5. Are you saying that only false Christ would dis-agree with you? are you saying that we are anti Christ because we won't play rapp music? what are you saying?
6. Are you saying that Rapp Music is the word of God and all else is the tradition of men?..." which is which? are you
7. saying its the rap music that is the tradition of men? or are you saying that rapp music is from the Word of God?
8. Where did it imply that Jesus came to destroy religion?
9. Are we not to test and determine which music we attach to our ministries?
10. How does promoting Rapp Music help to ease Jesus disapointment?
11. How does promoting and listening to Rapp Music in the Church get fornication, adultry, lying, back bighting, homosexualism, witchcraft, and devil worship out of the Church?
12. How has Rapp Music removed the above issues from the Church you Pastor?

I am not as educated as some of you are, nor am I as learned as you? In my world its either worng or right; if I am wrong I want to be right...so please since your are humoring my obviouse ignorance conserinig these great matters; answer the above question so that I can get right! make them plain for me! I want to lead Gods people right, so help me how in the world does the theme song to wickedness get me closer to rightouseness?

By the way; I like music; its the nasty, distorted ungodly garbage that's used to introduce its lyrical cousins that I object too and I have a LOT of trouble understanding how that position makes me or those with the same position a "False Christ"...Please explain.

Pastor Hodge
Sir, I will answer your questions when you answer the ones previously posed to you.
By the way, I'm still looking for the list of acceptable songs and hymns. I'll be delighted to answer your questions point-by-point once you provide this.
Hip Hop (& all other music) that teaches the Gospel of Christ & exalts God activates the Law of sowing and reaping. The mind is the battlefield, which The Bible addresses in many areas our thoughts. In Mark 4 Jesus teaches on seed being sown. What goes into the mind creates an environment for the seed that enters. Hip Hop is not the sole solution....but is a supplement teaching, praise & worship in church is a supplement, hearing a minister teach is a supplement. All are supplements to helping created a healthy atmosphere for God's seed to grow within a persons individual relationship with God. It's something that in the time of spiritual war a person can play in their mind to help keep them out of bondage. Just as learning the alphabet or books of The Bible in song have helped us remember.

Many people in the church every Sunday are going to hell...but the truth can be spoken. This does not make the minister invalid no more than the person who, like David & other Psalm writers, ministers poetically through hip hop, poetry, or more urban expressions. The Americanized view has been the eliminate urban culture for a long time, now the church aids in this attack of expression. For what reason? Lets wake up. Lets break the shackles of Religious as well as Cultural Colonialism.
Brother Hunter,
I thank God for your revelation on this matter. Many folks bound by religion will cause others to restrain things that will lead to the new birth in others. This is a very scary thought...
Brother Hodge,
I take umbrage with your statement alluding to your education level relative to some of us. Time after time, you strove to impress the forum with your knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. Aside from the lack of spell checking in your posts, I find you to be highly intelligent but summarily misinformed. My issue with your position is simply this: will you rail against something simply because you do not like it? If you do not like it, simply say so, and I will celebrate your intellectual honesty. Your modus operandi, based on your posts seems to be that of a spiritual bully. We are supposed to love people into the Kingdom and love them to keep them in. Browbeating and intimidation only works for a short time in the world and will be similarly exposed in the Kingdom. I am looking for, and hoping to find brotherly love in your response(s).

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