I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Bro. Day,

I really enjoy a good debate; but I have been honest and truthful with you...However I noticed that you are not being very truthful or honest. In your debate; you have changed the subject, restructured the conversation countless times reframed the argument and introduced scrripture to refute a position that never existed in the first place...you are a very interesting individule; I am no longer concerned about your definition of "sound doctrin" it is clouded by your desires.

In fact why are you so concerned that we accept Hip Hop? do you realize that you have stated (in essense) that everyone that does not put hip hop in their church is an "Anti Christ"? and what's even sadder is your partner really worked hard to justify that with scripture??? since you're into the church planting deal, why not just plant a bunch of churches ordain a crew of hip hop ministers or gangsta grip preachers and fill them to the brim with Hip Hoppers and leave the rest of us alone? please...don't answer that...its not a question.

These are your exact words which are lies: "Your first premise about the lyrics not being important is ludicrous" I never said that they were "not important" I said we were not discussing Lyrics the reason we are not discussing the lyrics is because the premise is They are Bibically correct! that is the point Bibically correct Lyrics fused with wicked secular music??? Why is it so hard for you to remember the point of the discussion? (no need to answer that)

In answer to your question "Please explain the use of the music from Tom Browne's "Funkin' for Jamaica" in the Clark Sisters' "Livin'?" That is a clear-cut example of using secular music with Biblically-based lyrics. Or how Take-6 took Kenny Loggins' "Biggest Part of Me" and re-worded it into Biblically-based lyrics? Holy Hip-Hop is no different than this"

The above songs you mentioned does not make it anymore correct than the Hip Hop travesty! it just means that someone either did not no any better or knew better and did not care or new better, cared and did it anyway or worse new better, cared, but got a lot of money, so they did it...Either way it was wrong then and wrong now!

Do you think that COGIC does everything right? No, its not perfect! While I am a loyal member of the COGIC Faith; I am set for the defence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ! COGIC did not die for me Jesus did! COGIC did not get up for me; Jesus did! so my first alligience is to Jesus! and your attempt to force your way on the Church in the name of yeilding to the move of God is is whats rediculouse!

The really sad truth is you guys have worked so hard to contort scripture to prove your point that you have actually argued against your own argument...it really is comical...I don't even think that you realize either.

And please stop attempting to religate the objection to a matter of personal likes or dislikes; that is a lie right from the devil and you should know it! The facts are simple and the question is the same:

Fact 1. All Hip Hop is secular (THATS WHY ITS CALLED HIP HOP) it would not be called hip hop if it were not secular! its NON CHRISTIAN - That is what secular means Pastor!

Fact 2. All of the word of God is true, pure acceptable for doctrine, for rebuke, exortation etc.! it is Holy by its own virtue! thats why its called sacred!

Fact 3. In order for it to be CALLED HOLY Hip Hop you must fuse together: Hip Hop (secular) + Holy Lyrics (Sacred) = Holy Hip Hop or better Secular + Sacred = Confusion! God is not the author of confusion! Again Bro. Anthony said it best and you said you agreed: "Since when is it appropiate to mix Sacred and Secular together? I agree! its not!

I heard this story a long time ago...this is the "public consuption version"
There was a girl who wanted to be a virgin on her wedding night...but she liked her freedom. so she dated a lot of boys before she got married...and she did everything that she and the boys felt like doing up to a particular point...and one day she found herself wanting to get married but no boy wanted to marry her...so she talked to her mother about it and after 3 hours or so of confessing to her mother, all that she had done with her dates, she asked her mom why no one wanted to marry her? her mother sat silently as she thought of what to say and finally she said my dearest darling...I think you really, really missed the point...

This is as simple as 1+2=3, I don't know how you can miss that?! but if you still can't see that, Bro. I want you to take all the energy that you were going to use to pray for me; and you and all your little co-horts have it ALL to yourself!

We are not to be CONFORMED to this world! We are to be TRANSFORMED by the renewing of our minds! Sampling snoop dog is not transformative.

I am officially done with this conversation, you have a nice day.


Pastor Hodge
Brother Hodge,
I thank you for your choice words. Once again, however, you miss the point. Neither myself, Brother Anthony, nor anyone else has suggested sampling Snoop Dogg or any other Gangsta or misogynous artist and calling THAT Gospel.

Regarding church plants, I'm not trying to plant hip-hop churches. God has called me to plant churches that preach liberty to the captives, instead of the hidebound religious tradition that keeps God's people in bondage. There are many kinds of fish to be caught for the Master's purpose and I refuse to limit the bait needed to catch them.

You accuse me of changing the subject, which I have not done. What I have done was used analogy, metaphor, and other devices to illustrate the same point: it is the LYRICS not the MUSIC. You on the other hand have used circular reasoning and redirection, which reduces the gravity of your debate.

What I have maintained is artists such as GRITS, DaTruth, Tripp Lee, and Tye Tribbett have been a blessing to the Body of Christ. And pastors born of the hip-hop movement such as Tommy Kyllonen and Mase continue to win souls that traditional church has chosen to ignore. Collectively, they are winning souls for the Kingdom -- something we should all be celebrating. Instead, you choose to call them Anti-Christ.

In closing, I apologize if at any time I have offended you or anyone else in this forum. It is my one true desire to see the Body of Christ enjoy unrestricted access to the throne of Grace and to have a real relationship with God through Christ Jesus. I am really weary of all the religious baggage in the Body, and the mere fact we have had this debate as long as we have is indicative of how pervasive it is.

I pray God's choicest blessings for you and that the peace that passes all understanding is yours now and forevermore. I love you and may God Bless You!
Brother Hodge,
One more thing -- please illuminate how I have been dishonest?
Brother Hodge with all due respect you actually said that Brother Day was constantly changed the subject???
Keep in mind Brother Hodge you have gone from
1. talking about the beat
2. Talking about your life before you were saved
3. Talking about your testimony, and family history
4. talking about a pig (which by the way was the weakest of arguments)
(None of these arguments had anything to do with the conversation at hand, well the first one did, but even when shown that it had no scriptural backing you still hung onto it more fiercely than Linus does to his blanket.)
5. you attempt to obfuscate by turning the conversation around and attempting to put it on either myself or Brother Day. Then as a last ditch efffort you attempt to pull religious protocol by saying you cannot speak to me because you have a title and I do not?? Wow bruh, even my father when he and I debated and he lost and attempted to squash it by sending me to bed (I was 14 and the time) had to come back and admit his folly. Apparently your pride gets in the way here.How you can with a straight face then accuse Brother Day of being dishonest and constantly changing the subject is beyond me. That is being disingenuous to say the least. Yeah my brother here is a link for you. please avail yourself
http://www.slm.org/trtdigst/articles/abuse.html
Well stated, my Brother! Well stated, indeed.
I have reading and trying to understand what the big fuss is about. Listen to the music on my page and tell me what is wrong with it.
Supt. Melvin Chentlen Jr.
Jesus Is Real Ministries
Minister Jenkins,

It is very mature of you to bring this topic to a discussion with your brothers & sisters as well as to re-assess your own personal view. But why would you still have an issue of that music being played in your church?

Lets for a moment step out of titles of genres of music. "Gospel-Inspirational", Contemporary Christian, Christian Rock, Christian Hip Hop, etc. We have to think about WHO creates these titles. Christians are good at allowing God's House to be divided...like by denomination (but that is another discussion). These are titles created by the music industry. Though they identify one thing from a different thing...they have also turned into something that keeps like things from connecting.

What would happen if ministers of Gospel-Inspirational (or "Black Gospel"), Contemporary Christian ("White Gospel"), Christian Rock, Christian Hip Hop, etc. fused & became one. We would unite & become an international church. The world would not be able to stop us.

What did slave masters do to prevent a revolt....they divided them so that their language was not the same & they couldn't communicate an uprise. But THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND....Jesus is calling for an uprise!!!

"Gospel" in regards to music has been defined by many "Christians" as a sound, style, or genre of music. HOWEVER...THE GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST is not a style or language of HIS speaking, but the SUBJECT matter of which HE SPOKE OF. and THE LIFESTYLE of worship & holiness that HE lived out. His subject....The Kingdom is at hand which was a call of rebellion.

This is Gospel Music....despite the style....it is the message, content, subject matter,
Brother Christopher,
I like this post, especially, "...Jesus is calling for a revolt." That is EXACTLY what the church needs. A tremor that shakes off the bondage of religion. A tremor that opens the gates and allows unrestricted relationship with God! You, sir, have hit the nail squarely on the head! God Bless You!
Sir, allow me to disagree with you greatly on this. Consider the work of groups like 'Exodus', and others. God is speaking thru them to the people. Young people that know and like nothing but hip hop will refuse anything that is *not* hip hop. Let the Great Lord above speak to young people any which way he pleases. He speaks to them in any way shape or form, and hip hop is and can be used as one of His ways to get thru them. All I'm saying is 'just consider'. Let's not make a stereotype out of nothing in this world. I work with urban youth and I know that the only way they really learn a lesson is if I let them read it to the background of rap beats. They love it and they learn it. God bless you in your ministry!


Sister Zara,
God Bless You for this info! Like yourself, I just want people to see the beauty in this. I want to see all come to repentance and if this is the language I must use, so be it!
I mean no harm, but you are saying that this type of music actually brings someone to a realization that they need Christ? Do they attract to the gestures that are being made in these videos, and the rhythmic beat? Or does the above hip hop videos cause young people to respond in faith to His invitation to a new life? Does it really make them want to know Christ personally? Zara indicates that there is certain faction of young people who will refuse anything that is not "hip hop" and that is sad, because Jesus is not hip hop. If it takes hip hop which got it start in the fleshly world to make them consider Christ than the Church is in very sorry state..
I didn't watch that particular video, but Yes Spencer, they do come to the realization that they need Christ...because it is the language they understand. Just as you don't speak The Word in English to a Chinese person that does not understand English. You translate The Word in Chinese. Christians approach the Un-churched world with Christianese because they have forgotten what it was like to not be saved. In that, you're not relateable. Jesus...who is the model of our Christian Walk & ministry approach, was relateable. That's why The Word says that the world is wiser than the church.

And no, I disagree that hip hop is all that they will listen to, but it is the first & favored genre. But how can you call that sad when you have the same approach against hip hop? "Gospel" music that we listen to also got it's start in "the world". Modern day "Gospel" is mixed with Blues & Jazz, which came from the expression of suffering from oppressed people. Just like Hip Hop.

And again it's about the message. You can be in the world but not of it? So you will a message that delivers The Truth which is Christ? How can you say Jesus is not Hip Hop when He said "I AM". HE is all as long as WE allow Him to be all. The music arena belongs to The Kingdom of God, as long as we're ready to take back what The World, Devil, & Flesh (Unholy godhead) stole from God's Kingdom.

I asked this question before but received no response. What music do you listen to? Only Gospel? And do you recognized that the format of David's writings are the same as Hip Hop?

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