I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Christopher, if you read I Corinthians 2: 14 you will find where it is written, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him..." The things of the Spirit of God refer to "the preaching of the cross" or "Christ, and Him crucified." Can the young folk through your hip hop music really understand the magnitude of Him being crucified? What I listen to while I am in CHURCH or at home it is usually spirituals, hymns, and anthems. I have nothing against other forms of music to include secular music as long they remain in the secular arena. Some secular songs have a very rich entertainment value, some secular songs are very amusing and even relaxing, but they have no place in the house of God. There are some gospel renditions that are also questionable I'll admit, and there are some songs mixed with blues and jazz, but gospel music did not get its start in the world as you mention. The term gospel music, refers to a body of songs associated with Christian evangelism, from the early '19th-century' great awakenings all the way through to the urban revivalist campaigns of the period 1870-1920. Here it is Christopher, Jesus Christ is the central theme of Christianity. He should also be the theme of Christian songs. With that said, it is therefore of paramount importance that music used to convey the verbal expression of His infinite nature, should be of the highest quality. But we today are busy dressing up Christ in the rags of rock, blues and hip-hop. We have gotten to the point that the truth doesn't matter anymore. We want to make church easy for unbelievers don't we? And how do we do that? Through an attempt to fill their needs with amusement, entertainment, and cool music. This is a great way to grow the church, but it is not God's way, and since it is not God's way I stand against it.
Your statement is very well spoken...but your view is still too narrow to even receive the greatness in your statement "Jesus Christ is the central theme of Christianity. He should also be the theme of Christian songs." If you read one of my last statements I agree with this fully. Theme goes beyond genre or style of composition.

ONCE AGAIN...KING DAVID...in his writings & recording of Psalm's has the same format of hip hop. Except the message is different. There are people in places called churches, with titles like Reverend that do not speak in agreement with the message of Christ. Is this acceptable? HOWEVER there are those...including myself who only received the gift of writing when I gave my life to Christ at 18, who deliver this message in the language of the people who understand (but I am multi-lingual now). My writing comes in worship of Him & HE is my central theme. I am one of many who stand in this agreement to teach.

With this I also say...you make a big statement to say God does not approve. You should pray about that. If you are wrong sir, which you are, you are in opposition of His Ministry
I am not saying that you are wrong as to whether David's somehow uses the same format of hip hop. Although I fail to see how this could be, before there were so-called "Holy hip-hop" artist there were the secular artists such as Notorious BIG, Tupac Shakir, Snoop Dog, etc., are you saying artists such as these had the foresight to structure their musical format after the Old Testament writings of David? I am a Baptist minister, and there are certain traditions within my denomination that have been around for generations. If you disagree with them it is perfectly alright with me. The only title that counts as far as I am concerned is that of "servant" but that is for another forum of which you have the opportunity to start. God does not approve of using fleshly corruptible things to attract people into the church, of this I am sure. As I mentioned earlier, Satan has been trying to get a toe-hold in the front door of evangelical church. Now he has found a wide open back door, And he has been blindly but enthusiastically welcomed through the medium of music! I am opened to your suggestion that I should pray about it, but I in turn suggest for you to do the same.
"God does not approve of using fleshly corruptible things to attract people into the church, of this I am sure"

OK then Rev Miller that being the case why does God use corruptible man, fleshly man, silly man, foolish man, fallible man. If God uses man, and man is all those thing, then that blows your supposition out of the water As opposed to being pharisaical in your view perhaps you might be better suited at being a little open minded to the possibility that if God can use fallible, corruptible, silly men to win souls, perhaps something like music, IN ANY FORM might be able to be used to win souls as well.
Man is not a "thing", he is a living being and God uses man for His purpose this much is true. With that said, your assertion that He somehow uses a secular turned somehow holy hip hop to draw in youth is off based. The purpose of Christian music is to praise God, not to draw in unbelievers or someone who would not otherwise seek His face. When someone truly gets saved, God puts a NEW song in their mouth. And that song is always a song of praise, the result of salvation is PRAISE! Brother Anthony, it is not something that we work up, dance to the beat and rhythm of a cool sounding tune, or fake, or just do, but it is something that God puts in us. When Paul and Silas were thrown in jail and in stocks they sung praises to the Lord. They did not move about with hand gestures and catchy rhymes, but they sung praises unto God. You and your cohorts advocate using a godly message (lyrics) with worldly music and I am sorry that is wrong. If you think that I am being pharisaical about it then there's nothing I can do about your opinion of me. Brother Anthony, when you get a chance why don't you read Matthew 16: 23, I believe it applies to our discussion.
Rev Miller, two things
1. Seriously you want to argue nouns and verbs, Man, a noun, thing, also a noun, that can refer to a man, a thing. wow man, gospel music's purpose is not to present the gospel in musical form??? What planet have you been living on. That argument is as weak as the others that you have presented thusfar.
2. With all due respect matt 16:23, so now I am supposed to be the devil?? I think your pharisaical thought process has more to do with the enemy than my supposition that God can use whatever He wants to present the gospel. But hey you are the one limiting God here, not I. You are the one calling God impotent, not I. You are the one saying that His word is powerless in musical form, which is comedic considering He honors his word above even His name.
What I see is many religious leaders making Christians through the cookie cutter process in which all Christians are identical. The Bible teaches us that the gifts come without repentance. If you listen to the same rappers that you listed above what you see were individuals who released a gift that was in them. Now...with that they did not release it God's full glory.

Also understand that these young men were not discipled by us (the church) they were attacked, but I will discuss that later. In their music they cried out...but the church didn't come to them, the streets did. This is a consistent problem. And also why the world is wiser...which your Word speaks of.

So the answer is yes they did obtain the same music format..because it was in them. A Christian Rapper is a Rapper who is Christian. God changed the method & message of what is spoken. God didn't create everyone with the same identity. We have different environments & missions. Ministry through music is not a mission for everyone...that's why everyone doesn't have the gift. Those who teach can teach right or wrong...rappers are teachers just like teachers in pulpits (who can teach right or wrong).

As I have said I was given the gift by God at 18 when I gave my life to Him & I am now 30. I am well aware of what I speak...but I am not bound by religious tradition. At one point I was until God reminded me of why He created me in the way that He did. We hold much misconception about those that we have not taken the time to understand. Get to understand us.
Brother Hunter,
I like this -- this is exactly what the traditionalists are trying to do, create "cookie cutter Christians." Your posts are truly a breath of fresh air, my Brother! God Bless you and your ministry!
Rev. Miller,
Now we finally get to where the rubber meets the road. The operative here is tradition. Tradition has resisted many life-saving and life-changing innovations. But most of all, tradition threatened to restrain something life-giving, that is, the ministry of our Lord Jesus.

When Jesus came, he didn't come preaching the message of tradition or teaching the ways of tradition. No -- in fact, He came decrying the religious leaders of His day. The Scribes and Pharisees were so blinded by tradition that they could not perceive THE move of God! Jesus went into the highways and byways of his environs dining with and speaking grace -- NOT LAW -- to the sinners of that time.

Fast forward to today, and the sects of the Scribes and Pharisees are alive and well, thanks to the traditions of men. I've learned to speak the vernacular of urban and rural areas that I may reach them. I've made the choice to grow my hair long into "dreadlocks" because it puts young people at ease when I talk to them.

Like Paul, we must be prepared to be all things to all people that we may win some. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (and you and I are old enough to know what that is -- smile), my point is -- and will continue to be -- if you don't personally like holy hip-hop and don't wish to allow it in the church that you lead, that's cool. I understand. And no one, I repeat, NO ONE in this forum is suggesting we open the sanctuary to secular music OF ANY KIND! But we should not make such blanket statements such as "...holy hip-hop is of the devil," lest we, ourselves, become religious zealots. Judge the tree by its fruit...
When Paul adapted himself to others it did not mean that he took on their mindset, it simply meant that he was acting in love and grace towards that person. In order to win over an alcoholic, I shouldn't start on a drinking binge myself, I shouldn't take on his mindset. But I should try to be sympathetic towards his problem. It is a matter of tradition vs contemporary I never denied that. Let me put it another way, it is my opinion that Holy hip hop which is an off shoot of secular hip hop is not of God.
Heaven forbid anyone should binge drink or partake of anything ungodly under the auspices of "winning the lost!" I never suggested such a thing and never will.

That said, I appreciate your intellectual honesty in stating that it is tradition that causes you to resist the use of holy hip-hop as a ministry tool.

Remember, though, J Moss, Byron Cage, Darwin Hobbs, Jonathan Butler et al are offshoot of secular R&B!

God Bless you, my Brother!
My argument is not just against hip hop in church, I am equally against any mixture of worldly music with Christian music. Be it Rhythm and Blues, Country, Rock, Blues or Jazz. I realize that there are now a few songs sung in the church today that are widely accepted as a mainstay-but it still doesn't make it right, in my opinion.

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