I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Brother Hodge,
I'm glad there is at least one thing we can agree on However, no one ever suggested fusing the sacred with the secular. Holy hip-hop is no more a fusion of the secular and the sacred than any of Dr. Dorsey's works. The cornerstone of my argument is, and will continue to be, if there is any new form of music containing Biblically-sound lyrics, should it be accepted or rejected as a tool for the winning of the lost to Christ and the edification of his saints.

Personally, I don't care if it's got a hip-hop beat, an R&B groove, a country twang, or a presbyterian chant, if it glorifies God in the lyrics, it's good enough for me.

Peace to you, too!
Bro. Day,


The very purpose of this discussion, the basis for the objection is in fact the combining Hip Hop Music (secular) with Holy (Sacred) Lyrics...If you were CREATING Sacred music with Sacred wording there would be no point of an objection.

We are not discussing lyrics! we are discussing the use of Hip Hop Music...By your logic God needs (people like snoop dog) to create secular music in order for people like you to write sacred lyrics to give him glory? that argument makes no sense no matter who it came from.

"no one ever suggested fusing the sacred with the secular" If there were no Hip Hop there could be no Holy Hip Hop?

We are not discussing a Beat...we are talking about taking secular recordings and putting them together with sacred lyrics...that (by itself) is repugnant to scripture! it is repugnant to common sense!

"if there is any new form of music containing Biblically-sound lyrics" look there is nothing NEW about Hip Hop! its basic theme is the same- taking the music from that record to worship God with is offensive!

The notion that some how you can sanctify the music is an irrational argument.


Peace to you
Tarik beat was discussed because you brought it up.. YOU brought it up none of us did, YOU did that.How is thinking that sancitification of music is irrational. throughout the old testament objects were sanctified, as well as people. Seriously what do you think sanctified means? If objects and people can be sanctified, why not music. Are you really this blind man. But since I have always said that one cannot argue with scripture, here are passages that refer to objects being sanctified.Exodus 29:33, 36, 37, 44,40:10, Lev 27:17, 22, All are examples of objects that have been sanctified. My Brother you are losing this argument in a big way,
Your first premise about the lyrics not being important is ludicrous as has been proven by the many passages of scripture that what you say is as important to the character of a Christian as the actions he or she takes. Once again no one is saying that you have to do this or that, however it is wrong for you to judge a thing based solely on religious beliefs. You have already been shown scripturally how that your argument on its face is wrong. How can you sir with all due respect argue against the scriptures themselves. And then attempt to justify your argument without any scriptural precedent or theologically sound argument. If you are going to be stubborn that's one thing. but to be so in the face of evidence that has been so soundly presented is akin to the king who thought he could stand up to the storm, he went out to the shore, and stood against the storm, and said simply that because he was king the storm would obey and not strike his land, After the storm hit, his subjects went out to see where he was.. they never found him. I am at this point going to agree to disagree only because further discussion would be in my opinion fruitless. You are obdurate in the worst way. You refuse to acknowledge evidence when presented. That is ok, but your arguments are without foundational backing. You have presented theorem that has no theological soundness whatsoever. I wish you well in your endeavors. I do still stand by a previous statement I think you should do some studying on spiritual abuse and make sure that you are not in danger of becoming an abuser, you are very close to crossing a line that ought not be crossed by a man of God. If you are as stubborn with this, what else might you be overly stubborn about?
Bro. Hodge,
Please explain the use of the music from Tom Browne's "Funkin' for Jamaica" in the Clark Sisters' "Livin'?" That is a clear-cut example of using secular music with Biblically-based lyrics. Or how Take-6 took Kenny Loggins' "Biggest Part of Me" and re-worded it into Biblically-based lyrics? Holy Hip-Hop is no different than this.

Didn't the Clark Sisters come out of the COGIC church? Like Brother Anthony said earlier, what do you think Bishop Sheard's position on the Clarks' music?

What you're saying is that music cannot evolve. That we should simply stick to the "old standards." I respond to that with a question, "how did the old standards get to be old standards?" Change is almost always met with resistance. When you resist change simply because it deviates from the status quo, you are getting asymptotically close to the tradition of men, which Jesus warned, "...renders of none effect the Word of God."

The use of drums were met with resistance over a hundred years ago and, yet, you use them in your church:

http://www.thisrockministries.com/members.php

see caption for "Brother Randy Howard..."

Which beat does your drummer use? 2/4, 3/4, 4/4? Which of these is evil? Which are good?

Please understand, I am not knocking what you do in your church. What I'm saying is, if you don't like Gospel R&B or Holy Hip-Hop, just say you don't like it and that you won't permit it in your church. If you do that, trust me, we will all celebrate your intellectual honesty.

As for sanctifying the music, how was the music of Drs. Dorsey or Watts sanctified?

Shalom to you, too, Brother!
Brother Day,
I mentioned earlier, sacred lyrics with a secular beat and rhythm is without a doubt a fusion. The lyrics and the music should be the same, they should marry up and be as one, in other words if the lyrics are sacred the music should be sacred. Can you imagine listening to Mahalia Jackson singing a spiritual song to a James Brown beat?
Depending on how that's done, it could be pretty nice!
Brother Miller your argument has no scriptural basis. It really doesn't What you are sharing is of course a personal preference and to make such a doctrinal standard is a mistake.
The so-called "Holy Hip-hop" is secular music with Christian words. It is the results that you brothers and your fellow hip hop supporters are looking at, You say, "Look at the results" or "See how many young people are coming to the Lord because of this hip hop music" after all, isn't it the results that count? I am sure you feel that the church experience ought to be more enjoyable and entertaining for our youth today. But let me ask you this, Brother Day and Brother Anthony (and this question will indeed have a scriptural base Bro. Anthony) , when Jesus sent his disciples on an evangelistic tour of the surrounding countryside was He trying to make the Gospel more appealing? He could have told them to try and communicate, He could have instructed His disciples to try and relate and to not offend anybody so that the people would be more ready to accept the message. But my brothers, what did He instruct them to do?

"Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you leave town. And any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go from there, shake the dust from the soles of your feet for a testimony against them" -Mark 6: 10-11. Today we will go to great lengths in order to make sure that the Gospel is more appealing to the unchurched, it is almost as if we are ashamed of the Gospel nowadays. No wonder Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes..." when you have the power of God you don't need a gimmick, you don't need a tool (as someone mentioned earlier), you don't need a carrot to place in front of someone's face, when you have the power of God all you have to do is rest on His power.
Brother Day,
I thank you for your comments on this subject. I guess the church I am a member and an Associate Minister of, they are very "OLD SCHOOL" because of my pastor's position about in church was made known thus watching a video here on BPN that made me re-think my position on the subject.

Personally,I am big fan of Kirk Franklin I do play his music on my Internet Radio programs on Talkshoe (http://www.talkshoe.com) but as far as
playing in the church house I don't it wouldn't be fitting due to the fact

Gospel and Inspirational music is to bring souls to Christ not drive them out or turn them away.

You can also thank Andrae Crouch for changing the sound of Gospel music during the late 70's and Edwin Hawkiins during in 1968-69 when his choir introduced "Oh Happy Day".

So my issue is against this so-called "Holy Hop" it being in church but not against the artists themselves.
Minister Jenkins,
Thank you for your kind words. I have endeavored to stay on subject and to remain Christ-centered in my posts. It is my sincere hope that I have added something positive to the discussion.

Like Rev. Miller, your words indicate a measure of open-mindedness that is allowing you to at least acknowledge the change in music -- even if you choose not to embrace it at this time. I applaud you for this.

May God continue to richly bless you in all your endeavors.
I personally don't care for hip hop whether it's worldly or not that's just not my taste. I do believe that the word of god says to make a joyful noise unto the lord. There was no specifics or genres to do this in. I believe as long as it is done decent and in order it should be fine if that's what a pastor wants in their church. but who am i? just a servant of the lord.I am young and yes it's a challenge to get the young people not only in the church but to keep them there and know we as christians should bribe people with candy (music) just to get them there
Hi Precious,
Your post is very honest and mature. Your point that you don't care for hip-hop, Holy or otherwise, is intellectually honest. I am grateful for young minds such as yours; I think you are on your way to doing great things for the Kingdom. God Bless You!

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