I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Man I know you! At least I know your people, but I didn't know you were pastoring that's good!
further more secular and gospel shouldnt be mixed and we shouldnt form an opinion on those in the church cause people in secular are doing something.... this attitude is why people rather be in the club and streets rather than in the church, and what i mean by being mixed is we who do christian rap or whatever u want to call it shouldnt be penalized for Sean Carter..... its not right but God will do his thing to those who judge and who band us from places
Pastor Mcintyre,

You are absolutly right! Secular and Gospel should not be mixed! We owe to our members to present a bold contrast between the Church and the World!

God Bless you and your ministry.

Pastor Hodge
Minister Jenkins

I am new to this network and this forum. Exactly why hip hop should not be allowed in our churches.
Book, chapter and verse would be apreciated please.
Greetings to Pastor Phillips, and to all those present.

I was under the impression that this was conversation was over; I was certainly done with it last week and I said that I was not going to comment any longer; however, in view of the newer comments being offered it is clear that this subject is far from over.

Your question regarding: "why Hip Hop should not be in the Church?" you also asked for Book, chapter and verse. I can honestly say that you will find it in the same place that you will find where Cigarettes smoking and Drinking Jack Daniels or smirnoff is not allowed.

The Bible teaches us that we are to be Separate from the world (2 corinthians 6:17) touch not that which is unclean - the very nature of Hip Hop is vile and unclean. 1 Thes: Teaches us to abstain from the very appearence of evil, The thing that makes this mattters most insane is that the jestures, clothing, attitude (non-verbal) messages are used as an integral componant of the Hip Hop presentation are not forsaken when it crosses over to "Holy" Hip Hop.

The Bible admonishes us to follow a standard of holiness, for he himself is Holy! It is a well known fact that Hip Hop is its own religion, it does not hold itself out to be holy; therefore...It is secular in nature, in practice and in origin. Leviticus 20:7 has instructed the people of God to be Holy for Our God is Holy; that being the case that which is unholy has no place in God's pulpit! Hip Hop fits that category.

Matt: 9:17 and Mark 2:22 reminds us that it is improper to put new wine in old wine bottles...The word of God is new and fresh able to save the sin sick soul no matter how young or old! The musical arrangements with which it is to be married too must also be New, Fresh not defiled; HIp Hop can never be called new and fresh its very nature is repugnant to all that which is decent!

Years ago there was a T.V. show out called "Name that tune" the players had to listen for a few seconds and then name the song...the same things hold true today; you don't forget the song just because somebody change the name and added a few bible verses to it.

The Lyrical argument is the most obvious effort for satan to legitimize itself as a 'move of God" In the book of Matthew 4:1-10 The Bible identified him as the Devil, he came quoting scriptures he was yet the devill, he called Jesus to perform a task (well within the relm of Jesus power) yet he was still the devil and his agenda had not changed because he new the Bible.

While I can see nothing at all wrong with fast pace, lively music set to powerful anointed lyrics from the word of God; I can find nothing right about bringing hip hop records into the church; changing the name and some of the lyrics and calling it Holy.

Hope this answers your question,

Pastor Tarik Hodge
As usual Pastor Hodge posts a non answer answer... I reiterate the post i posted last week and received no answer from him or Rev. Miller, I wonder why??

Ok Brother Hodge, here are your questions with my answers in bold

1. can you tell me how Hip Hop separates us FROM the world? I think you said it does not.

Ok SECULAR hip hop does not, however when you look at the lyrics of Holy Hip Hop there is a distinct difference. If I play a song by say Snoop, he is going to be talking about either drugs, or mysogeny, or crime. If I play a song by Shundi, or Out of Eden, (although OOE is not really hip hop as much as they are gospel r&b) they are going to be speaking about serving the Lord, they are going to be singing songs of encouragement, songs that tell of their love of the Lord, sharing music about the goodness of the Lord. How is it that you cannot see that speaking about such things does indeed separate them from the Lord, when was the last time you heard Snoop rap about the Lord? When was the last time you saw Snoop give an alter call at a concert? In a word, you won’t, why because to Snoop based solely on his lifestyle, he doesn’t live a life that one could say pleases the Lord. The artists I mentioned, I know of personally, grew up with, I know their lives because I have watched them I know how they love God, I have spent time with them and seen them at their best, and worst, and in every case not once did they give up on God. Not once did they fail to give Him glory for what He has used them to do and become. How does it separate us from the world, because the message that Holy Hip Hop brings is one of life in Jesus Christ, that’s why. If you have not listened, you are not really qualified to speak on it. Proverbs says “He who answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is shame and a folly unto him. Another version puts it this way: a man who speaks before he listens is a fool.

2. can you tell me what is spiritual about the Rapp Music?
See above

3. Are you sayiing that I am holding the Church in bondage because I don't agree with you?

I think what he is saying is a general truth a man who is continually prone to tradition, and is so rigid that he cannot see the possibility of God moving in a thing is prone to hold a church in bondage. If it does not apply, as the old folx used to say, “let it roll off your back”. If it does apply simply say “ouch”.

4. Man successfully built religion?

Oh come on Tarik, you mean to tell me you are really questioning that. Islam, the Greek Pantheon, Jewish Orthodoxy, NOI, Jehovah’s Witnesses, CJCLDS, all are religions. And all every single one of them were started by men,,,,, All are steeped in religious ceremony.. We are different as we are supposed to be not involved in religious ceremony, but rather in relationship with God. Even God says He hates religion:
"...every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." (Deuteronomy 12:31)
"I have had enough of burnt offerings...Bring your worthless offerings no longer...I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts; they have become a burden to Me... So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you... I will not listen..." (Isaiah 1:10-15)
"I hate, I reject your festivals; nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies...take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps." (Amos 5:21-24)
It is a fair assessment that every religion that I have mentioned was started BY A MAN. Have you ever considered the etymology of the word religion, it is derived from the latin religo which means to bind up. In this case religion binds people in senseless ceremony, traditions, and the like, when a church follows tradition as opposed to having a vibrant RELATIONSHIP with Christ, the name Ichabod might as well be written above the door. I Sam 4:20-22. During His time here, who was Christ most critical of without question, was it not the religious establishment, and why is this? First
1. They were wrapped up in ceremony, and not after the heart.
2. Even He said that He disapproved of the way that they used religion to bind the people, (Mt 23)

Having all this evidence can you say that Jesus actually supports religion? Can you say that Christianity is a religion. Is that what you have, a religion? If that is what you have, you do yourself, and the God you serve a disservice. He wants relationship. Why else would He say in Hebrews 10:1-18 , speaking about the ending of ceremony, the destruction of religion in order to bring about a new covenant, one that would involve a relationship, a close relationship. We as gentiles are adopted children, as Saints we are adopted children. This statement in borne out in Romans where Paul says that we as gentiles were “grafted in” . in middle eastern culture, there is no disownment of adopted children. Having said all this, you should by now see that Not only does God hate religion, that Christ came to destroy religion, that we should not be about religion.

Are you saying that only false Christ would dis-agree with you? are you saying that we are anti Christ because we won't play rapp music? what are you saying?

I do not believe that Brother Day is that black and white. Here is what I believe the meaning is. If one is for religion, one would be for something that God hates, if someone is for something that He is against then the logic would be he or she would be anti God, and in a very real sense, anti Christ.

6. Are you saying that Rapp Music is the word of God and all else is the tradition of men?..." which is which? are you

7. saying its the rap music that is the tradition of men? or are you saying that rapp music is from the Word of God?

Ok on its face that question is a bit juvenile, however If we are talking about Holy Hip Hop and it is scripturally correct, and theologically on point with its message, and if its message is one that directly quotes the scriptures, and knowing that God honors His word even above His name, we know that it shall not return void. Now I know that the image of the enemy quoting scripture comes to mind, keep in mind,
1. The quotation of those scriptures was done in a tempting way, and often times misquoted in order to goad Jesus into some kind of selfish action
2. The quotes were also designed to question Him as to his identity, if you notice how that even throughout scripture the devil is basically asking two questions, 1 Did God really say that? And 2. Who are you supposed to really be, are you really who God says you are?
That being the case and being the enemy’s SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) whenever scripture is used in its correct biblical setting to edify, to build up, and to encourage, can it then honestly be said to be demonically influenced, knowing these two facts? The answer of course is no.

8. Where did it imply that Jesus came to destroy religion?

I have already shared this scripture, but here it is again Hebrews 10:1-18 (Amplified vesion: 1FOR SINCE the Law has merely a rude outline (foreshadowing) of the good things to come--instead of fully expressing those things--it can never by offering the same sacrifices continually year after year make perfect those who approach [its altars].

2For if it were otherwise, would [these sacrifices] not have stopped being offered? Since the worshipers had [a]once for all been cleansed, they would no longer have any guilt or consciousness of sin.

3But [as it is] these sacrifices annually bring a fresh remembrance of sins [to be atoned for],

4Because the blood of bulls and goats is powerless to take sins away.

5Hence, when He [Christ] entered into the world, He said, Sacrifices and offerings You have not desired, but instead You have made ready a body for Me [to offer];

6In burnt offerings and sin offerings You have taken no delight.

7Then I said, Behold, here I am, coming to do Your will, O God--[to fulfill] what is written of Me in the volume of the Book.(A)

8When He said just before, You have neither desired, nor have You taken delight in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings--all of which are offered according to the Law--

9He then went on to say, Behold, [here] I am, coming to do Your will. Thus He does away with and annuls the first (former) order [as a means of expiating sin] so that He might inaugurate and establish the second (latter) order.(B)

10And in accordance with this will [of God], we have been made holy (consecrated and sanctified) through the offering made once for all of the body of Jesus Christ (the Anointed One)., all through these verses Paul (or whoever authored Hebrews) speaks of how God no longer wanted sacrifices, the religion served no purpose as God’s intent was to change the heart of man.

9. Are we not to test and determine which music we attach to our ministries?

Of course but you have been painting with a very broad brush. You have lumped Holy Hip Hop with secular hip hop, since when is it appropriate to put the secular with the sacred. How is it sacred you ask, once again as I pointed out in the paragraph above if it fulfills the standard set by Paul in Phillipians 4:8, how do you determine this if the music encourages, if it edifys, if it glorifies, then stands to reason, that it fulfills Phil 4:8. If you want to bring up the argument about the beat, show me in the Bible as it is supposed to be the guide book where the words that we speak are not given more weight, have you not read where Jesus Himself said that we wil be judged by every idle word we speak, not by every beat we play. Calling something demonic does two things,
1. It raises fear and in most cases heightens the attention people pay to the enemy.
2. There is nowhere in scripture where we are even told that we are to pay attention to him
3. No we are not to be ignorant, but there is a difference between having a healthy respect for one’s enemy, and being obsessive. In this case a healthy respect is knowing he exists, knowing his tactics, but not being overly concerned about what he does. Keep in mind that there is nowhere in the Bible that says that the Holy Spirit will speak of anything other than what Is in the Bible. Even Jesus said that He will speak of the things he hears What does the Spirit hear? He hears the word of God, what is the word of God, the Bible. We are told to try the spirits, by the Spirit. What will they speak of if they are of God, John was clear, that Jesus was come in the flesh. Here’s the thing, if there is no biblical basis for what is being said, can it be trusted. Can what a spirit saying be backed up by the word, if not, it should be discarded. This theory that the beat is demonic, or evil, silly superstition. There is no biblical basis for it.That being the case, why preach it. If there is no biblical basis for it, how then is it of God, simply put IT IS NOT.

10. How does promoting Rapp Music help to ease Jesus disapointment?

As I stated before, If we are so caught up in tradition that we miss a new thing that the Lord is doing, a new tool that He is using, and please do not say that He does not use new tools; TV, the printed page, radio, the piano, the guitar and other instruments did not exist in the first century. And they were all fought against by the church in the late 19th early 20th centuries.

11. How does promoting and listening to Rapp Music in the Church get fornication, adultry, lying, back bighting, homosexualism, witchcraft, and devil worship out of the Church?

I am going to answer your question with a question, How did the Canton Spirituals or the Fisk Jubilee Chior get it out? Tarik you know better than to ask a question like that, if you are any type of pastor you know that it is the job of the Holy Spirit to do that, it is Him working through music, or the preaching of the word to convict and to move people through the process of Sanctification. You know good and well that sometimes for some people it’s the hearing of a song, or the preaching of a message that moves them to the alter to get things right.

12. How has Rapp Music removed the above issues from the Church you Pastor?

Well for one thing I do not pastor, my father did, my brother does, my uncles do, my cousins do as well. I have been in some form of ministry since I was four I have seen how in their youth ministries it has taught them (the youth) how to memorize scripture. Some of the scripture memorized using Holy Hip Hop tells them who they are, and whose they are. And in relation to the above issues , my answer is the same it is not the in the job description of the pastor to remove those things from his or her church, he or she must work in concert with the Holy Spirit to do it. If he or she feels that they can use the trappings of tradition and religion to do it, it will fall flat on its face. The Kingdom of God is not about rules regulations, tradition, ceremony and the like. God is about changing hearts from the inside out, changing behavior from the inside out. Haven’t you figured that out yet. If the Jews could not live the law, and the law’s sole purpose was to show the need for a Savior, having a bunch of religious rules is nothing more than a revamped version of the Jewish law, it did not work for them, and it will not work for us, why because it attempts to do things without the leading, and behavior changing power that only comes from God when one has a surrendered life to him. And that my brother is a daily thing, its not a one time deal that you pull at the alter once, you have to have an attitude of surrender, daily.

I am not as educated as some of you are, nor am I as learned as you?

You aren’t?

In my world its either worng or right; if I am wrong I want to be right...so please since your are humoring my obviouse ignorance conserinig these great matters; answer the above question so that I can get right! make them plain for me! I want to lead Gods people right, so help me how in the world does the theme song to wickedness get me closer to rightouseness?

Huh? You really should proof what you are going to send, before you send it, In the meantime, I think I understand the statement you are trying to say, and I answered that in the paragraphs I wrote. I hope you read them well, if not go back and read them again.

By the way; I like music; its the nasty, distorted ungodly garbage that's used to introduce its lyrical cousins that I object too and I have a LOT of trouble understanding how that position makes me or those with the same position a "False Christ"...Please explain.

Asked and answered move forward please. Or go back up and read the answer to your number 5 question.
Pastor they cannot give you an answer without twisting the word to suit their needs. Its one thing to honestly humbly ask a question. but when you have men in the ministry who are pharisaical in their approach to Christianity. Sad truth is that this attitude is all over the place in the Body of Christ.
Sad but true, my Brother, sad but true...
Bros. Day and Anthony,

I responded to your answers. Since you did not understand my answer let me be more clear: Since you based your entire answer on a false premise, I rejected it. In your argument disagreed with yourself and agreed with me..."and since I agreed with me too we had nothing more to discuss. Since when should one mix secular with sacred?" You don't

You two are actually accusing me of being an "Anti Christ" because I won't put "None Christian" music with Christian words in a song in my church! That is stupid!

Further more out of RESPECT for the FACT that Bro, Anthony is not a Pastor and has no power of what his Church does any way; there is absolutly NO Reason to continue a discusion with him on church policy! He will never change my mind, even if his mind was open and he agreed with me 100% there is nothing that he can do about it.

Pastor Hodge
Pastor Day,

I was taking some members home from Church tonight and I noticed the gentlemans clubs parking lots were really full! and most of the Churches parking lots were empty...I thought about your opinion and wanted to know what you thought about putting a dancing pole in the Church? You know get some good looking sisters and having them get up an dance on the poles that would bring the men in the Church...man,. offerings would be through the roof! but they would have to dance to Holy Lyrics that are spiritually uplifting! You can call it Holy Poll Dancing!? What do you think?


Pastor Hodge
Pastor Hodge, do you read your bible at all, or do you just go by what you learned in Sunday School or YPWW?? Suggesting that we are talking about doing something that scripture is clearly against. verses something that men such as yourself cling to religiously as though it were an eternal truth, when there is no biblical precedent for it? Sanctimony defined, and acted out, but then again not surprising seeing as most pastors are perpetrators of the same during their lifetime. First you insist that you are done with this subject then you cannot seem to honor the statement you made, but considering that this is the only thread you have ever answered on the board I am not surprised. Sanctimony, its todays vocabulary word, and its description is apt.
I was done with this...now I am not.


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