I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Hey Brothers In Christ,

I really think that its the persons level of understanding that is in the way of true worship and praise.
Personally I beleive that we can praise with hip hop. Winning souls to Christ. We are fishers of
men, not debators of logic.

I am for almost any hip hop arrangement as long as its done unto the Lord. But Using discernment
and following the leading of the Holy Spirit as well as the leading of our pastors we should choose
arrangements prayerfully.

For instance I can't use an arrangement like the atomic dog because those who just got saved are still
unlearned and in need of maturing. So we don't want to take a stout worldly arrangement and use it ( my opinion).
Because when that person leaves the service, it may have been annointed but we have to mindful of
each beleivers indvidual growth. We as musicians for God are creatively annointed to generate gospel
hip hop without piggy backing off the world. Think about it, some music we may hear in passing and recognize
the beat and start singing it. Think about the effect a worldly beat may have on someone who just got saved.
Musician, singers, rappers and producers we are annointed and creative in Christ. Be responsible because we
will have to give an account for our actions.

Again instead of striving against your pastors. Prayerfully select songs and create songs. If you are a minister
of music its your duty to create, as King David created songs.

To my pastors, we cannot shut down our youths' creative ability. We ask them to use their gifts and tell
God wants to use them. Or do we mean we want to use them. God has a purpose for everybody and
everthing. Do not put God in a box. He is bigger than music any way. Its only a tool. So everybody who
partakes in this discussion do not get offended.

I am for hip hop in the Church, fo sho.

Keep Serving God,
Pastor R. Phillips Sr.
Pastor Phillips,
This is a truly anointed and well thought-out post. Thank you for your wisdom and discernment. I look forward to laboring in the vineyard with you!

Pastor Day
Pastor Phillips,

Where does the Bible say that you can't have pole dancers in the church? they are creative??? and they will draw the unsaved (men) into the church...don't you want the men to get saved? we can play "stomp" inthe background!


Pastor Hodge
Pastor hodge,

You are giving examples that does not make any sense at all. No man of God would have poles in his church for that purpose. The point is we being pastors should teach proper posturing on stage. Of course no man God should do things like grab his couch. Totally unexceptable. This is why we teach them how to deliver on stage.

We have singers and rappers who are saved who entertain for a livning and should conduct themselves in a Godly manner, on stage as well as off stage.

I do understand that some things are too worldy that they do. This is why we being men of God
can come together and make it appropriate or stop it in your church until they can lift God without
worldly gestures.

Pastor if you took public speaking or went to seminary, they taught proper posture, gesturing and
edicate. If we had to learn whether from the Holy Spirit or a teacher, I beleive they can do the same.

In Christ
Pastor R. Phillips Sr.
Pastor Phillips,

They don't make sense to you! don't make sense to your friends! (I dare say that if I were in agreement with your position almost anything I say would make sense)

Please sir if we are going to have a conversation, let it work both ways. If you get to say that My examples don't make sense then that means that I get to say that your examples don't make sense. I think that's only fare don't you?

Now I assume that to the extent of the "gestures" you concede that they are not required to win souls for Christ, and they in affect send the wrong message.

Now tell are the theme songs to "snoop dog" biggie small and others" a required tool to win souls for Christ?

Pastor Hodge
Ok Tarik I was hoping you were not going to make me do this, but I have gone back and pulled your postings from the beginning of the conversation. You said a few hours ago:

i>i>Reply by Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge 3 hours ago
Pastor Day,

..."what makes MUSIC not Christian"...the more you two talk the more you make my point...you are dishonest. Only a dishonest person would deduce from the opposers of your position that they consider music to be un Christian.

No one ever said that music (itself) was unchristian.

You said we were dishonest, sorry bruh if there is anyone here lying its YOU. Here is what you said early on

Reply by Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge on December 31, 2009 at 9:30am
So are you saying God is incapable of creating a NEW sound to reach a new generation? Are you saying that the only way to reach young people is to remix and old hip hop song and just call it gospel? Are you saying that if Rap, Hip Hop or what ever had never existed than God would be out of business? Your argument that we should accept Hip Hop because some idiot left the door open to blues, rock and roll and other jenres that express Satanic inspiration does not mean that we should continue the practice!


Here in the above statement you say that the music is satanic, eg it can be extrapolated that you are saying that the music is un-christian, after all if its satanic it cannot be pro-christian...


Reply by Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge on January 3, 2010 at 12:34pm
Pastor Day; I agree with you! 100% This is not a new subject! The devil has attemtped to infiltrate the Church since before Christ died on the Cross! in fact he tried to buy off Jesus in Matthew 4:1. By 68AD the book of acts tells you of the man that wanted to buy the Holy Ghost power- By 325 AD the 70 elders met at the council of Nicea and sold the Church out by selected the emporers birthday Dec. 25th to celebrate the Birth of Christ! by 600 AD the Chuch had became so watered down so unrecognizable that Muhammed believed he heard from God to write the Holy Quaran - which for the most part is a misguied attempt to do what Christians failed to do - Preach Teach and Practice Holiness and separation from Sin...its no wonder that by 1647 Brother Watts was inspired by the Muse of the Bars and Clubs instead of the Word of God; and of course (like you sai) people like yourself are following right in his foot steps! I am sad for you sir! as Pastors we are charged with the obligation to preach Holiness! to hold up a standard before the people regardless of the status of the convictions or hipocracy our members, to be a bold contrast to that which upholds wickedness. Hip Hop is a religion all to itself! it denies the Power of Christ is an afront to all that is rightouse - Stealing the Music and changing the words - does not all of a sudden make it "Holy" - I would argue that the God of al creation - if sought - could give you a sound, a muse, a rythm, a beat that caused the world to look to us - let them steal our stuff! let them copy us! le them pretend to be us! and let us boldly proclaim who and what we are!

Here you are saying one that the koran is holy... hmm i find that very interesting, holding on to religions in your past it would seem, another topic for another time. you are far more religious than you let on my brother. You accuse the saints of stealing something that the devil did not create. Since when did the devil have the power of creation. Is not God the owner of all things, and if He is the owner of all things, how is it that the devil can take anything from Him... Your logic as usual is flawed. If Dr Watts got his music from the clubs and juke joints then there is no way his music is pro christian, once again your words not mine.




Reply by Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge on January 4, 2010 at 9:50pm
Amen Sis. Miles!

Oppsites attract! if pretending to be a women was required to draw women I would not be married today! If pretending to be a liar to draw liars how could one then call himself saved? where there is no Bold Contrast, what is the purpose of changing? Romans12:1-2 what part of be not conformed to THIS WORLD is not understood? anything that mimcks the world in effort to draw the world is satanic at its very core!

Once again your own words call you a liar Tarik, if its satanic it cannot be pro christian.

And finally Tarik here is something you wrote that actually floored me. I cannot believe you wrote this but here it is in black and white, your own words screaming about how disingenuous you actually are...
.


Reply by Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge on January 9, 2010 at 11:44pm
Rev, Miller,

The trouble that I have with your comment is that this is supposed to be a open discussion amongst workers in the ministry; all positions are supposed to be welcomed.


hmm nothing there about pastors only, nothing there about the opinions of non pastors being disregarded. I wonder Tarik, if you cannot be honest here, how honest are you in real life?? Once again I implore you seek some help or at least some real pastoral training.
Bro. Anthony,

LOL You keep making my point for me??? Reply by Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge on January 3, 2010 at 12:34pm

This is what I said"as Pastors we are charged with the obligation to preach Holiness! to hold up a standard before the people regardless of the status of the convictions or hipocracy our members. I was only talking to Pastors...as a minister or other you are subject to your Pastor.

Bro Anthony, these are your words" hmm nothing there about pastors only, nothing there about the opinions of non pastors being disregarded".

Really?

My use of the word "positions" were in referrence to being either "for" or "against" hip hop in the church...that is the question of the day! lol

I stand behind everything that I said! and I repeat: ONLY A DISHONEST PERSON WOULD DEDUCE THAT ACCUSATION FROM WHAT I SAID. You really should let Pastor Day speak for himself...in my opinion.

Like I said; 25 years ago; I was where you are! Your heart is right and your facts are wrong! lol, lol, lol anyway see me 6 months after you get your appointment.

Go in peace Bro. Anthony.


Pastor Hodge
Tarik you are as self effacing as you are dishonest. Anyone reading the thread has seen what you wrote with regard to positions of pastor and the like. You apparently like to prey on the ignorance of people hoping that they will not catch on to the fact that you do not think much of them. And as far as calling the Koran "holy" do not think for a moment that I did not notice that. You are selective in your comments even when your own comments indict you
Bro. Anthony,

Sir for your own protection; I am encouraging to refrain from this dangerouse
course that you are on. I agree with everything I said!

Go in peace!

Pastor Hodge
Protection from whom? You? You are threatening me? Tarik I have little to fear from you. And I do not believe in the fairy tale you are alluding to. And the sad truth is by going here you prove my point about you being a sanctimonious man, using religion as a cover for your actions.
Pastor Hodge, I am curious to know how many people in your church, any age, that are UNmarried are having sex? How many people in your church are addicted to masturbation & pornography? How many teens in your church (if you have any that come by their own free will) are pregnant or have children? How many are suicidal? How many are looking for things or people to find their own identity? How many thoughts of your sheep, Pastor, do you know?

I also wonder how a blind shepherd can lead the lost...well...I guess he can only lead in one direction like a Pharisee.
Greetings Tarik

You posted this earlier today, I am finally getting around to answering you as I needed time to relax, play with my dog, pray, and all around enjoy life before I came back to deal with you.

Bro. Anthony,

You had no problem at all disqualifying Sis. Angela's right to engage in this discussion; why is it that you are so greatly offended when I have disqualified your right to engage in this discussion?

What are you talking about, I never disqualified anyone from speaking in this discussion? Now you resort to blatently lying about something… Figures, when a man cannot stand on his own two in a debate often he resorts to lying in order to defend himself. I at least had enough integrity to post your comments Tarik, where are mine?

Furthermore, this is presicley why I took exception to you answering for Pastor Day in the first place...because at best all you can do is say what you believed he meant howvever unless (you took up mind reading) you can't say for sure what he meant.

Uh Tarik, its called extrapolation, perhaps you have never heard of it, no worries, it simply means a logical progression based on previous statements. Like when I called you out being a liar based on what you said previously. Your own postings so thoroughly called you out that you would like to deflect and obfuscate. This is but one reason as to why I cannot respect you.

The fact that you have no respect for authority only makes my point stronger...I apologized too you; I even agreed with some of what you said and what I absolutly disagreed with you on; I left you alone not because I had no rebuttle to it, (believe me you left yourself very open) but because you are a product of your current teaching and you are currently under the teaching of another;

Once again my confused brother you confuse my lack of respect for YOU with a lack of respect for the office. I respected my dad, my brother, my uncles and cousins. You sir are a different story as you portray yourself as a pastor yet behave like a hireling. You have no regard for the kids and young people out there. Any REAL pastor would use every resource at his or her disposal to win the lost. Any REAL pastor would commit any and every resource to that end. You still hold on to the religious trappings of Islam yet you want to call yourself a pastor. Tell me brother since when is it appropriate for a Christ centered pastor to call the Koran “holy” as you did in an earlier post?


25 years ago, I was where you are: my belief is that if you are under the teaching of a Pastor then no other Pastor has a right to undermine, or interfere with that teaching...Sir you might be a great Pastor some day; but you are not one now...you don't face the challanges now, you don't pay the price now...and its easy to say what you will do, should do, might do, and would have done but its different when you get behind the wheel and actually have to do it.

LOL that is the first bit of common sense that you have shown, however I walked with my dad, I worked with him. I served with him. So I saw the price he paid, and yes I paid a little of it myself.


Brother Anthony, with all do respect, I read your answers to the questions that I posed to Pastor Day; you wrote what you believe to be true, however you based your entire argument on a false premise; therefore your argument was not rellevant.

LOL so now you disregard my argument by lying again, YOU posed several questions that had NOTHING to do with Brother Day, Tarik are you thinking about what you write before you write it?

Now you may not agree with me at all! I don't expect you too, you won't even be able to look at things from my perspective until you get there, that 's why we CAN'T have this discussion!

LOL in your mind we cannot have this discussion because you have been pasted continually. You have no ground upon which to stand so now you resort to outright lying and hoping no one fact checks you to prove that you are lying.

I go You disqualified Sis. Angela on the basis that she is not a "Scholar" (in your opinion) I disqualified you based on the fact that you are not a Pastor, you don't even have the ability to change anything in your church even if you agreed with me...there is no point of continuing with you.
no offense)

OK once again show me the post where I disregarded her opinion and told her that because she was unlearned that her opinion did not matter? I asked her a question I never got an answer to, and that as far as I can tell was the only single interaction with her specifically, so please tell me what are you talking about.

Besides; what Brother Anthony think you will allow (today); when the time comes; Pastor Anthony won't even entertain the idea.

You have no idea what I might allow, I have a document that I have been working on for the past three years that guides me, it is my ministry mission statement, one of the things it includes is a four prong move to win not just the children but whole families to the Lord. Unlike you, I am willing to commit all my resources, I am not blinded by religion, blinded by the foolishness of tradition, and doctrines of men dead and gone; knowing full well that the things that they taught in some cases will run people away from the gospel. You want to live in the 18th century and sing Gregorian chants while kneeling on your prayer rug facing East, you go right ahead, those of us who have a vibrant personal relationship with the Lord are wise enough and in contact enough with He who MADE US FREE, that has got to be one of the most misquoted scriptures, We are made free in Christ, not set free. Those who are set free, can be moved back into bondage by men, well meaning men, but as the old folks used to say, the road to hell is paved with good intent.

Finally, you may not have respect for authority, or the office but I do so please Bro. Anthony, without any further discussions allow me to respectfully defer any (opinion or rebuttle thereof) to the watchman over your soul! your teacher, your Pastor!
Once again I have respect for authority, just not for a hireling such as yourself. You like to hide behind a title and refuse to be questioned when questioning is needed because your actions and statements make absolutely no sense. For example your thought of stripper poles in the church and comparing them to Holy Hip Hop. Come on dude, if you were any kind of student of the Bible you would know that when Paul said that it is not good for a man to touch a woman, what he was saying is that it is not a good thing for a man to do things that incite sexual arousal in a woman that is not that man’s wife, and while he did not say anything about women, it is understood that the same goes for the sisters as well. Your reference I Corinthians 7:1. You post foolishness and call it acceptable, spoken and thought out like a true hireling. Once again I respect the office, much love for it, but I have little time, little patience, and little respect for someone such as yourself, there is a difference So please move on.


This is really for your own protection.

From what, from whom, If God is for me, and I have it on good authority that He is, who can stand against me? Certainly not you little one. You threatening me is like my miniature golden doodle Maestroi barking at me, its cute, but annoying, he poses absolutely no threat to me. So is this the part where you quote Psalm 105:15 “ Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm…. Were I someone who did not study the word, if I were someone who did not know the Lord, I would be shaking or quaking. Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for me, I know what God was saying, I am cogent of what He meant. For one, that verse does not refer to YOU or any other minister, pastor, or apostle or even prophet, at least not in the way that you would like it to mean…..
The following is an exposition on the scripture from another source, you might want to pay attention:

Context is everything. The verse (if you read it properly) is David's psalm to Israel, reminding them of the promise God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He was recalling that the anointed kings and prophets of Israel had been protected from physical harm by God. It's about physically hurting and killing, not about questioning or disagreeing with teachings. This is not translatable to today, in my opinion. It was a promise made to a certain group of people at a certain time. Perhaps if you are currently an anointed king of Israel you may have at least some basis to claim the scripture as yours and warn attackers against killing you. Otherwise, no.

The way it is used today is frankly disgusting. All mankind is fallible, words said about God and actions done in the name of God should always be compared to the Bible. There are no exceptions. A threat of "Touch Not God's Anointed" should be taken with a grain of salt. It is not an authoritative word, and there is no action of God behind it.

Those truly anointed by God for certain priveliges of ministry today follow the example of Jesus. He taught that the first should be last, and the last first. His leadership was one of servanthood, and he never, ever, ever threatened the wrath of God on somebody who asked a question of him. In fact, he allowed himself to be beaten and killed by those who falsely accused him of wrongdoing. Where is that attitude among those who proclaim themselves "untouchable" today?

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