IS IT GOOD FOR UNMARRIED PERSON TO BE ELECTED AS A BISHOP? ,SHOULD A WOMAN BE CALLED AN APOSTLE OR A BISHOP?

[APOSTLE DR. PRINCE NNAMS]

Fellow Brothers, Sisters, Pastors and Lawyers, I would like us to delibrate on this Topic, either in support or Against with Bible refrences, should a woman , married or unmarried be addressed as an Apostle or a Bishop?

Secondly, should a woman head a church where there are other qualified pastors or ministers in the same church?

[Scott R. Newman]

1Co 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

1Ti 2:12 "But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness."
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
1Ti 2:14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:"

1Ti 3:2 "The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

1Ti 5:14 "I desire therefore that the younger widows marry, bear children, rule the household, give no occasion to the adversary for reviling:
1Ti 5:15 for already some are turned aside after Satan."

It is written....Thus sayeth the Lord.

[Anthony McPherson]

The thing that I love most about the bible is that not only can we find instructions from God, but that we are allowed to see God's people at ther best and at thier worst. (Abraham and Sarah, David, Solomon, Peter, Paul, etc) In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says I do not allow..., was he giving a personal opinion or speaking on God's behalf?

Secondly, if we truly were to follow 1 Tim. 3:2, then can a divorced man or a widower who remarries, be a bishop? Or must a bishop be married?

We cannot pick and choose what we want to follow. If we are going to take the bible very literally, then we must follow of it to the letter. But then we would become just as guilty if not more, as the religious leaders of Jesus' day.

[Eemah (Mother) Hephzybah]

HalleluYAH Brother Anthony.... It needs to be said again....take a moment and let us receive Abba's Truth here.

The thing that I love most about the bible is that not only can we find instructions from God, but that we are allowed to see God's people at ther best and at thier worst. (Abraham and Sarah, David, Solomon, Peter, Paul, etc) In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says I do not allow..., was he giving a personal opinion or speaking on God's behalf?

Secondly, if we truly were to follow 1 Tim. 3:2, then can a divorced man or a widower who remarries, be a bishop? Or must a bishop be married?

We cannot pick and choose what we want to follow. If we are going to take the bible very literally, then we must follow of it to the letter. But then we would become just as guilty if not more, as the religious leaders of Jesus' day.



So Well Stated.... Now, what has The Most High or Yahushua commanded that supports this opinion of Paul's?

[Trevor T. Greene]

As an Apostle of the LORD JESUS representing the Kingdom Of GOD, his opinion is more than just "an opinion". An Epistle may have opinions within it, but try to understand something here: an Epistle isn't any old letter, it is literally a binding legal government document. When an epistle was sent out it had the seal of the King and/or Kingdom on it, embossed into it by the officials signet ring. For us Christians, the seal of the Apostle was spiritual, with the Holy Ghost as the seal Himself. The literal seal of the Apostle came later on when they started giving Bishops a signet ring during ordination. What is written, IS WRITTEN. By the standard that you place, you might as well say that the scripture is flawed. Its not flaw here, but a misunderstanding of what Paul spoke of who he was speaking directly to, what he spoke about and when did he speak this aka Hermeneutics.

[YahsNiviim]

Shalom
We first must understand what marriage is and why the command was given. It demostrates the ability to run a family. How can a man run Yah's hosue and can not run his own house? He can not because what is a congregation? It is the family of YHWH.

[YahsNiviim]

To understand scripture you have to look at the whole picturee not just bits and pieces. He must be the husband of One wife. What does that mean? He is to only have one wife at a time. is a divorced man married? No. Can he remarry is the question. Because of the hardness of your hearts I permitted it. So if a person has scriptural grounds for divorce then he is not married. So in the tanak the person who was caught in Adultery was taken out of the city and stoned. So that person was dead they no longer had a mate. So they could then remarry. Well we now have this thing called favor where we do not get killed for sin. Because Yahshau has paid the price for our sin. So divorce is now in a place where that person is spiritually dead and scripture grounds a person can remarry. So that answer that question.


So if this person remarries He scripturally only has one wife and one wife at a time. So that person could be a bishop.

[bridgette]

Hello,

In response to the scripture reference you used, (1Ti 2:12-14) by any chance did you research why he said that? Please let me know.

bwk

[Anthony McPherson]

I agree with you that people often twist scripture to fit thier own agenda. And many people are also gulity of taking the scripture out of context; reading just one portion of scripture while tossing out the rest.

[Scott R. Newman]

Eze 22:30 "And I sought for a man among them, that should build up the wall, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it; but I found none."

As I reflect upon this very topic and to see what is occurring among the church leadership where it seems as if God's structure, order and role is being compromised by subverting and usurping God's standard as described in 1 Timothy and the book of Titus as a guide in dealing with the church hierarchy. I felt the need to revisit this very important issue with a more careful and candid viewpoint in how this new phenomenon of women being in the role of leadership, especially within the African American church.

God's standard is the standard in which we all should subscribe to and never to be compromised to appease those who seek to replace the truths of a Holy, Just and righteous God for our own agenda, which as the wise man Solomon suggests is:

Ecc 1:14 "I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind."

So the question that I'm asking is, is the reason why so many women who are 'called' to be pastors and bishops and leaders of the church body are called for vanity reasons or of necessity, since as last report and statistics that have found that over 75% of those who sit in the pews to hear a message from God to equip, teach and preach are made up of women. The men are seemingly visibly absent from anything that has anything to do with the structure of church as it is today. Where are the men? And how do we close the gap in creating a more balanced church where men can receive salvation to be involved in Kingdom work? Faith always comes by hearing, and the hearing of the Word of God. Many of those who been found called to serve the office of Bishop, didn't happen by osmosis nor in a vacuum, but by not forsaking the assembly and bein in position to receive a profound word that made its way to the elect's heart to be nudged by the Holy Spirit.

As for the 25% to 75% ratio. It is a simple fix. We need to bring the Gospel to the lost as we are commanded, Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8, etc. By calling men to repentance and genuine faith in Christ for the forgiveness of their crimes against heaven (willful sins) and seeing their lives transformed by the power of the Gospel we can close the gap. By the way these men who profess faith in Christ should be held to the test of salvation that Christ gives in John 10:27 without excuse or exception.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

I just wanted to bring out two other points on this subject. The first is I believe that the church (Christians) as a whole in our society has a problem with bringing our americanism to the church and how we approach God rather than bringing our christianism to our society. As a result I believe that we try to bring whatever changes in the country to the church. I think we need to be careful of this because we are called to be different or set apart not to mirror our society. The second issue is I believe that it is probably more of the issue of why most men don't stand up and lead the churches or their homes.

Lets face it, 80% of all black babies born today are born outside of wedlock and are fatherless orphans. The Bible defines and orphan as one who is fatherless, regardless as whether a mother, grandmother or auntie is present, he/she is still fatherless orphans. Isn't it amazing how God in all of His grace shares His title as Father to us lowly men as fathers. And with that title comes an amazing responsibility to be an example of the Holy Father. How does a child believe in a Holy Father that never leaves nor forsakes us, when our very own physical father abandoned us? How do we believe in an invible Holy Father, when the fathers we can see are not around? Tough sell isn't it? I thank God for the Holy Spirit that reveals and illuminates the blind so that they may be able to see and comprehend the invisible things of God.

The hard facts speak for themselves. We have over 2 million black men currently in prison and a third of all black men in America have criminal records that hinders many of them to find adequate work in order to feed themselves, let alone their own children. Black women comprise now the head of household, where the black man has been commanded to fill. Then there is a large number of black men who are living a homosexual lifestyle or a lifestyle of complete depravity. There are more black women attaining higher degrees than black men almost by 4 to 1 creating another imbalance in the structural employment gap. While many black sisters are fast becoming employable while many black men are unemployed and unemployable and are now intimidated by these same "strong" black women who insist that they cannot find a suitable husband who can carry her and the children financially as well as biblically in being able to properly cultivate, provide and to protect the home adequately as the true gatekeepers of our homes, communities and nation. Black women are now boldly and unabashedly proclaiming, "I'm the mother and the father?"

We are being sifted like wheat!

Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together unless they be agreed?" Good question.

Unfortunately, many sisters are missing the ministry God gave them because they are seeking the ministry God gave to their brothers instead. Titus chapter two describes a much needed ministry in our churches and society as a whole today. I know that it is neglected because we have 70% of children born out of wedlock, 50% divorce rate, and a +70% HIV infection rate. Maybe you should utilize your gift in the parameters that God has established in the word of God even if no one sees you but Him. I think that Jesus mentioned that those working to be seen of men have their reward.

Titus 2:3-5 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

Unless the adults in your church are ALL female, you are in direct violation of this scripture each and every time you teach God's word to the men in attendance at your church.

It is CLEAR that many men are failing to meet their responsibilities in the church and in the home. It is therefore understandable that many women fill lead to fill roles not intended for them by God. We are seeing the results this have reaped upon our homes. The statistic mentioned by above are very real and a direct result of our failure to submit to Gods order. This is a failure of MEN.

If women want to help men meet their responsibility, they can best accomplish this by fulfilling their own responsibility, not by assuming the responsibility of men. Part of a womans responsibility, as indicated by Tit 2:5 is "To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

Chaste is, by definition, refraining from sexual intercourse that is regarded as contrary to morality or religion. At this point you are probably asking "What in the world does that have to do with "Women Pastors?". Well, while women are busy fulfilling the role of men, the role of women are being abandoned. So, contrary to Gods will, we have the role of men being filled by women and the role of women being abandoned. Is there any wonder 70% of black children are being born out of wedlock??? Is there any wonder that nearly 70% of new cases among women of HIV/AIDS in 2005 was black women? Is this not the hand writting on the wall? Who is fullfilling the womans role of teaching the principles of Titus 2:3 - 5 to young women?

We lack reverence for God's word and are clearly reaping the results that are warned of in Titus 2:5 "That the word of God be not blasphemed". Yes, we are doing things OUR humanly expediant way, reaping the results of doing so and acting as though this is just the way things has to be. I assure you, this is not the way it has to be, this is the way of the world. We can't just depart from Gods order and expect God to reward us.

I apologize for the long dissertation, but I am passionate about the fate of the black family. The solution to all of our problems in black America rest compassionately in Gods order. The statistics on fatherless homes are well documented, yet we as a people, thrust 80% of our children into this inherent risk group. Not until we order our lives in accordance with Gods word can we expect to turn these statistics around.

God Bless

In His Grip

Scott

[Anthony McPherson]

This is something that has always puzzled me: how do we seperate the Will of God from the will of man? From my studies, one has only to carefully read the bible and see that there are many parts that are directly Influenced by God while other scripture are more a reflection of man's thoughts or attempts to do what they believed to be right or pleasing to God. In my opinion, these scriptures that speak against women in leadership are more the result of a cultural belief than a religious one. From this cultrual standpoint, many men have argued that women have no rights and are without a voice to express thier thoughts/views. Now this is not to say that God does not demand some type of structure/order but that maybe just maybe we have missed paid too much attention to what man has said or believes that they have heard from God rather than what God has actually said. I am in no way saying that the bible is not credible but I am saying that I don't think that God really cares whether it is a man or a woman that is the leader of the HIS CHURCH. But I feel that God is more concerned whether or not that individual is a man or woman after God's own heart. I don' t have any scriptures to support my idea. But I just have to trust and believe that God is more after the intentions of the individual than whether a man or woman assumes the role of pastor/bishop/leader or whatever name we as fallible human-beings choose to give to the person who takes on the responsiblity of shepherding God's church. Again, I have no scripture to support this and I am falling back on experience (which has its own pitfalls). I have been blessed by many male and female pastors who truly desire to do what is pleasing and acceptable in the sight of God. But I have also encounter both male and female leaders who were more concerned about thier title and pleasing people than pleasing God. I said of this to simply say that like so much that we attempt to do, we have missed the point of what God was and is still saying to us. People (rather male or female) who desire to do more or even less than what God has called them to do are in direct violation of God's Will.

[REV. UGOEZE DEBORAH NNAMS]

CONSIDER THIS:
1.A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, ... The Bishop, then, is to be a man of good name, the husband of one wife.The husband of one wife. A married man, and having only one wife

2.What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. ... A bishop then must be blameless. NOT a divorce polygamy and adultery.1Timothy 3:2

Since a Bishop is a husband of one man, not a wife of one man, This is a simple grammer, then why do some Churches Elect women as a bishop? Secondly if a Bishop is the Husband of one wife, why is it some young men who are not married, without pastors under them are been Elected as Bishop as well?

Lastly,A bishop must be blameless, why is it some pastors who divorces their wives and re-marry and re-marry again are been elected to the office of a bishop? Is it not polygamy and adultery?
Apostle Dr.Prince Nnams Kalu
[e-mail]

[Scott R. Newman]

Amen to that Deborah Nnams

Why choose just what we want to look at as an offense, but leave the other undone?

We see what we wanna see to justify our own offense. Can a Bishop who divorces and remarry still be called a Bishop or should he?

The Word of God has been compromised and watered down so much, most don't know what is truth.

Are we doers of the Word or seek our own agendas?

Scott