Is Your Name IN God's Book of Life, or Has it Been BLOTTED Out?

[Eccl. 12:13]

Once Saved Always Saved?



Let's read what the bible has to say on the topic. Let's read what happens to both sinners and the righteous. But before we do that let's look up the ONLY definition in the ENTIRE bible for the word "sin"

1John.3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now we know what "sin" is AND we know what a "sinner" is. "Sin" is anything that goes against the Laws of God and a "sinner" is a person that brakes God's laws!

And just for the record, let's find out who has sinned;

Eccl.7
[20] For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Rom.3
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Now let's find the fate of the sinner and the righteous;

Ezek.18
[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Now we know what a sinner is, it is one that breaks the LAWS of God, which, according to God's inspired word, ALL have done. And the scriptures says he that sinneth shall die. The death spoken of here is the second death. Now let's read what happens if the sinner turns from his ways, or STOPS breaking God's laws;

[21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

So the sinner can change his fate. If he STOPS breaking Gods laws NONE of his transgressions will even be mentioned.

Now let's see if there is a flip side to this. Let's read the fate of the righteous;

[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

So ALL of the good things a righteous person does can be wiped away and counted for nothing if he starts sinning. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;

[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

So if the ONCE righteous DIES in his sins, he shall die the second death.

I would say Gods ways are fair and equal just as He says in His word.

Now some may want to still believe that once they are saved they will ALWAYS be saved, but let's read and see if a NT person thought the same way.

Let's read what Paul had to say about the possibility of him NOT making it into God's kingdom;

1Cor.9
[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So even Paul realized that it was possible for him to blow the mission, miss the mark and NOT make it into God's kingdom, if he did not keep his body under subjection.

Now there are some we KNOW will be in God's kingdom, but let's look just how close it will be even for them;

1Pet.4
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

And just who are some of the righteous that we KNOW will be in God's kingdom? Noah, Abraham, Moses, King David, the prophets and the 12 apostles, just to name a few.

Now if these JUST make it in, I can see why Paul says he himself may be a castaway if he does not continue to do what is right. And if THEY just make it in, where does that put us?

Let’s look at just a few more scriptures;

Exod.32
[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Now let’s see just what book is being spoken of here;

Rev.3
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

WOW!!! Just think about that for a moment. A persons name that is written in God’s book of life can be removed!!! I mean......they were there!! Their name was in THE BOOK!!! So what could have happened for their name to be removed from God’s book of life? Could God have changed the rules? Not according to scripture;

Mal.3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not…
Heb.13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

So if God doesn’t change….. The only other thing that could have changed was THEM!!!!!

Now a name that STAYS in God's book of life until that person dies, then he is saved. But if a name that was in God's book of life is REMOVED and that person dies.................... ........................ ..well!

Is your name written in God’s book of life? Or has it been BLOTTED OUT? When will we find out?

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."
"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."
"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"
"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God,"
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."



Prov.4
[7] Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.







.

[trevor mcnamee]

what about "No-one canpluck them from my fathers Hand"...Jesus

Nothing can seperate us from the Love of God,not anything on the earth above the earth,below the earth,NOR any created
thing. Rm 8,,Are we as christians created Ans Yes Therefore we cant even ourselves seperate ourselves from the Love of God.
When ever I am asked this question we all go round in circles because there are scriptures that appear to suport both view points

But I always come back to this When we become Christians we Receive ETERNAL LIFE

i then ask what does the word Eternal Mean


ETERNAL ...Definition according to Strongs Concordance Means For as Long as CHRIST LIVES
That settles it for me
Jesus Live for ever therefore a chritian cannot loos ethier Salvation

[James Pierce]

Mcnamee,

When Paul was preaching, he was approached by the Berean people. These people were very noble, and they judged everything by the Torah & The Prophets. Acts 17,"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."

This is what we must do. The doctrine of OSAS is no different. Briefly, let us see how this doctrine stacks up against Torah & The Prophets...

One of the tenents of OSAS is that we have eternal salvation, and we cannot possibly give it up. Let us see what Yehwah has to say about this.... First, we must take into account "freewill." Man has the free will to either continue in obedience, or discontinue in it.

Let us first start off in Genesis, where it all starts. Genesis 2:9,"And out of the ground the Lord God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

You have:

1) Tree of life
2) Tree of the knowledge of Good or bad

These are the choices that Adam and Eve have. The doctrine of OSAS does not have room for choices, being that, according to this doctrine, saved folk will always go to the tree of life without free will to disobey by going to the good and bad tree.

Yehwah brings the choices into effect by saying this... Genesis 2:16-17,"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Yehwah states that they could eat of any tree, except the tree of the knowledge of good or evil. If OSAS was actually true, then we would expect it to be decreed from the beginning, right?

As we can see from the mouth of our Father, we have choice to either obey by eating from the tree of life, or disobey by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

So, free has started in the first book of the bible, from the mouth of Yehwah. Let us go to Dueteronomy and see what He says in His beautiful Torah.

What I am about to show you is similar to what Yehwah gave Adam & Eve in th garden.. a choice to obey, or not to obey. Obedience brings blessings and life, and disobedience brings bad and death.

Duet 30:15-20,"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Yehwah has set before us "life and good(Obedience) & death and evil(Disobedience). OSAS clearly disregards disobedience.

Now, I know I said im going to be brief, but I am now finish my brief due diligence from Torah that OSAS does not exist. Now, its time to see what the Prophets have to say.. Preferably, Ezekiel..

Ezekiel really talks about people turning away from the living God, and dying in their sins. Many people say that we cannot give up our salvation. The Prophets prove them wrong.

Ezekiel 3:20,"Again, if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and commits injustice, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered, but his blood I will require at your hand."

His righteous deeds will not be remembered, and he will die in his sin. What happens when a person dies in their sins? I am sure that most of you on here already knows that. Yeshuah said whoever does not believe in Him, the wrath of Yehwah remains on them. This is a one way ticket to the lake of fire.

Ezekiel 18:24,"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."

If a righteous man turns from the living God, and transgress the Torah, then he will not live, and he will forfeit his salvation. What do you think happened to Saul? The holy spirit left him. Most Christians say that cannot happened... but it did!

Let us go to what Yeshuah has said concerning free will and choice to either abide in Him and live, or be cut off and die forever. John 15:6,"If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned."

Yeshuah also says that we must abide in His teachings to truly be His disciples. John 8:31-32,"So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Hebrews 6:4-6,"For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt."

It is impossible to come back to repentance once a person is gone, and made the decision to never come back. Even a geninuely saved person could walk away, because of free will, and never come back, and thus giving up their salvation.

Let us endure... Matt 24:13,"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

[tim]

No one can snatch you but you can choose to walk away from Jesus and also lose faith, or choose to not believe.

Once a Sheep, Always a Sheep?
Some teach that once a person is saved, and becomes a sheep of God, he can never cease being a sheep. A sheep cannot become a goat - so they say. Misinterpretation of Scripture is the cause of this false idea. It only stands to reason that if the "devil's goats (sinners)" can become "Christ's sheep (the saved), then certainly the reverse is true also.;

The following Scripture is often cited to "prove" that a saved person cannot become lost. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:28).; Actually, the very context of this verse teaches the possibility of losing salvation. In verse twenty-seven Jesus says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."; Therefore Christ defined sheep as those who both hear His voice, and follow him. When a person turns his back on God, he ceases to listen to Gods voice, or to follow Him. Thus he no longer meets the definition Jesus Himself gave of a sheep. So long as one listens to God's voice and follows Him, he is safe. But the promise does not exist for those who do not continue to hear and follow.

Once a Son, Always a Son?
Another false idea says that no matter how disobedient a child becomes, he is still his fathers son. By this theory it is propagated that when one becomes a child of God he will remain a child of God forever, regardless of whether he continues to follow God or turn back into sin. To take such a position is absurd, and would require one to say "once a child of the devil, always a child of the devil."

Adam was called "the son of God" (Luke 3:38).; Even so, Adam sinned and lost eternal life, and so may we. Indeed, if sin does not cause one to be lost, then no sinner is lost. If sin at first cause us to be damned, it will do the same if we return to it after being saved. If it caused the first "son ofGod" to be lost, so will it for all "sons" of God who turn back into sin.

You Cannot Be Unborn?
It is misleading to say that one cannot become unborn after being born again. It must be remembered that being "born again" is a spiritual experience, and it is possible to lose that experience. One can certainly be born spiritually and die spiritually as sure as he can be born in a physical body and die in a physical body.; If it were not so jesus would not have told of the parable of the vine and the branch and to remain in him, because jesus knew we are weak and can die spiritually.
It is only as one follows on with Christ that he continues in the "born again" life. Paul indicated that some of those he wrote to in Galatia had lost their experience and needed to be born again, again! "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again, until Christ be formed in you" (Gal. 4:19).

This argument is intellectually dishonest in that the birth is a natural birth and not a spiritual birth.

Examples of ones saved (accepting christ, righteous,children of god)

[tim]

No Man Can Pluck Out

Finally, let us look at the text which has probably been quoted more than any other to support the doctrine of eternal security. Jesus said, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:28, 29.
What a tremendous promise this should be for every trusting child of God! At first glance, it does seem to guarantee some sort of immunity against spiritual loss, but we have not read the entire text. Verse 27 is an integral part of the thought, and it lays down a specific condition for the fulfillment of the promise in verses 28 and 29. "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life." Please notice that it is only God's true followers who nestle safely in His protecting hand. He gives eternal life only to the faithful sheep who hear and follow Him. It is this hearing and following which provides immunity against being plucked away by the devil or his agents. The protection is from enemies without who seek to carry off the sheep, but not from unfaithfulness of the sheep who might choose not to follow any longer. No one can pluck them out of the Father's hand, but they may choose to jump out at any time. God never even hints that He will interfere with the freedom of choice of His followers. Christians can choose to be lost just as surely as sinners can choose to be saved.
Just think how useless would be all the hundreds of biblical warnings against apostasy if it were impossible to experience it. Why would the Spirit have led Paul, Peter, and all the others to pen such solemn threats and admonitions against eternal loss if they were in no danger of suffering it? And if it is true that the "once saved" are eternally secure, surely the devil would know it. Therefore, he would never waste any time on believers, knowing how impossible it would be to cause them to be lost. Yet, we all know by experience that Satan works even harder to pull away the saints from following Christ.
We have to conclude that salvation does not consist of a single, irrevocable commitment, whether past or present. Being saved is the experience of living Christ's own life by divine imputation and impartation. It is never a reality except in continual, dynamic relationship with Jesus, the source of eternal life. Being saved must be spoken of in all three tenses of time in order to be completely biblical. It has happened, it is happening, and it will happen. Perhaps, this illustration by Glenn Fillman will help explain it.

[Eccl. 12:13]

Prov.16
[25] There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Now I know many want to believe once they have accepted Christ that is it, but as you just read in my lesson a name that is in God's book of life CAN be blotted out.

So please, by all means, go on believing what you will, I'm not trying to change anyones mind. I'm only trying to present something to the forum in a way that they never thought of before, or that their church or pastor have never covered.

Now let's look at the (2) scriptures you use as the one you always fall back to, (never mind the several I posted I used to PROVE my point);

John.10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Let's look at WHO cannot pluck them out. "Neither shall any MAN pluck them out."
And again with the next verse. "And no man is able to pluck them out."

Jesus is NOT saying that their fate is sealed and they are guaranteed eternal life. All that is being said here is that "NO MAN" can determine anothers fate. Now let's go to the scriptures to prove this;

Ezek.18
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Already we see that the ONLY one in control of each man is God. Let's contine;

[5] But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
[9] Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

So a man that has done ALL God has told him to do, that man shall live. And the Life God is talking about is ETERNAL life. Now what is that man has a sonthat does NOT obey God? Let's read;

[10] If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
[11] And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
[12] Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
[13] Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

So the bad son's deeds shall be upon him. Now what happens if the son has a son? Let's read it;

[14] Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

So now we are talking about the grandson looking at all of the sins his father did during his lifetime and decides NOT to follow in his fathers sinful ways.

[16] Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
[17] That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

So does the sons actions make up for those of his father? Let's read;

[18] As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

So no. Nothing the son can do will make up for the deeds of his father. And what of the son?

[19] Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So just as Jesus said, ""And no man is able to pluck them out.", we all pay for our OWN deeds!


Now let's look at the other scripture you provided;

Rom.8
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

This is true, nothing, nor, no one can separate us from the love of Christ. But understand something here, WHO is it that is GIVING the love? The love being spoken of here is the love Christ has for us. He will always love us. But the same is NOT true for us. Let's read it;

1John.5
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2John.1
[6] And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

1John.2
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Now what of the person that does NOT keep the commandments of God? Do THEY love God? Let's read what the inspired word of God says;

1John.2
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So HOW do WE show our love to God? BY OBEYING HIM! And what is the ONLY thing He has ever asked man to do? KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS! Which ones you ask? Here......I'll let the one that will judge us all tell you;

Matt.19
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Which ones? He tell us;

[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So the scripture you presented is correct, nothing can separate Christs' love from us. But what must WE do to prove OUR love to Him? According to scriptures, Keep God's commandmants.

I know even this may not convince some, but it is not my job to take away the delusion;

2Thes.2
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That's God job!


Prov.4
[7] Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.


I pray this helps some one!





.

[Superintendent Elijah Marshall]

Praise the Lord...

The crown is promised to those that endure TO THE END... and to those that run the race with patience.. But I'm sure as you know, that in a race you can drop out, and you dont necessarily finish unless you decide to finish. The crown IS RESERVED, but its contingent upon our finishing the race. Hebrews 6:4-6, tells us that it IS a possibility that some can fall from the faith, but it will be impossible to bring them back to repentance again possibly because what Jesus said how if they go back into the world it will be seven times worse than the previous time before when they were in the world..

[trevor mcnamee]

as always NO-ONE can dispute the Definition of ETERNAL
for the Life I live is the Life of Christ in Me
And that life is ETERNAL....which means For AS long As Chist Lives
Come on you Guys Answer the Question of the meaning of Eternal
If you can loose your eternal Life It was NEVER ETERNAL in the First place
Superintendant....He who began a good work in you(eternal Life) shall perform it Perfect it And Complete It UnTIL HE RETURNS
For it is he who is in us to WILL AND TO DO HIS WILL
Eternal Life Is dependant on God not us
His promises are YEH and AMEN
And we as you would Know Interprete scripture with scripture
Line upon Line Precept Upon Precept

Ipray that that the eyes of your understanding May be openened to the Tremendous Power of his Saving Gracs
Bought by the Precious BLOD OF CHRIST
Bless you all
Trevor

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Eternal life is a GIFT. It is something that can be taken away. If its taken away, the gift is still eternal. Its just that you do not have it.

[trevor mcnamee]

So Gods An Indian Giver now
A gift is not a gift If It Can Be taken away.
If It can Be taken away It Was Only A Loan in the First place.Not a Gift.
Scripture Says We Recieve the GIFT of Eternal Life

And Again I ask You all To Give Me the definition Of ETERNAL

If You Can Loose It It Was Never Eternal In The First Place

I Cannot Believe that God The Giver Of All Good Gifts

Scripture Says That God is not repentant of His gifts

IE A Gift is a Gift is a Gift is a Gift No matter what cause god Doesnt Take them back

[Eccl. 12:13]

God does not MAKE us take His gift. Eternal salvation is offered to everyone. But it is up to us to accept it. We have only two choices in life; obey God and receive eternal salvation or do not.

God is NOT a taker of salvation. Our salvation is lost because of something we do. Let's read it;

Ezek.18
[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Why will ALL of the good done by the righteous person be wiped away and counted for nothing? Because he starts sinning. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;

[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

So if the ONCE righteous DIES in his sins, he shall die the second death.

And again;

Exod.32
[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Again, God tells us it is our SIN that will cause our names to be blotted out of His book.

.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

When one has accepted Yeshua, he is and will always be a child of God.

The Word says that God is married to the backslider, HOWEVER, the backslider is just as the prodigal son, he was and would always be his father's son, that does not change, but he left his father's house, thank God he came to himself and returned, and did not remain lost dead in his sins

[James Pierce]

Evan,

Each man has free will. Scripture says if you disown Him, then He will disown you. He is married to the backslider, but that backslider has free will to NEVER come back.