Jesus is Yah myth debunked and refuted

[Zealot X]

This thread is designed to show that the doctrine of Hezekiah and others that YHWH and Yeshua (The Messiah) are the same person is false. Hezekiah has consistently railed against me for not believing what he believes (even though he is in the minority of Israelites) but he has a tendency to cry foul every time I invite him to debate it out fairly. I have even advised him that he can take some time to study first before beginning the debate. I believed I was being fair. He attacked me further and then ignored my posts. Now he is accusing me again and posting texts at me. So I would like for Hezekiah and any one else who agree with this false doctrine to step up and have a reasonable and rational debate. No argumentum ad hominem. No immature games. Just text and commentary.

And for Hezekiah.... I know you detest commentary but without supplying it I have to GUESS what your interpretation is. Stop assuming that what you read can only say one thing; what YOU think it says. Explain why you believe it says what you believe it says.

[Zealot X]

"Trevor, perhaps you can show me where in 1 Clement this trinitarian doctrine of yours exists. "

I supplied a link to 1 Clement to make this easy for you. Is there a problem?

I do not think that answering one text by running to another is a proper or valid approach. Do you? Otherwise I could just repeat John 17:3 all day. Right?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I already said that: "Actually, that is EXACTLY what a Trinitarian formula says!" The very verses that you used from 1st Clement were apart of the Trinitarian doctrine.

Why is it that you didn't say a word concerning the other two fellows? Have no rebuttal for them?

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Zealot, it is irrelevent who taught it, or where it can be found, or who coined the Word,

The Apostles had to reconcile themselves with a risen Christ Jesus, one they walked, talked and lived with. Only God has the power to give life to the dead. Jesus, was God in the flesh, and HE stated HE would send back the comforter.

the faithless logically understand that 1+1+1=3
my faith takes me much further ONE +the one that was amongst us + the one HE sent back who lives inside = ONE

[Zealot X]

"Only God has the power to give life to the dead."

true.

John 5:19 - Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 - I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 8:28 - Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Galatians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Yeshua haMashiach, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

YHWH (The Father) raised him from the dead. That doesn't make him G-d any more than anyone else who was raised from the dead.

"my faith takes me much further ONE +the one that was amongst us + the one HE sent back who lives inside = ONE"

um... this is what the Father did. You have just given the correct interpretation of Ephesians 4:6, only that text is clearly only speaking of the Father.

Ephesians 4:6 - One G-d and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

THROUGH the son is just a means by which THE FATHER is able to be with his people. IN us, by the holy spirit is the means by which THE FATHER is able to be with us, in us, changing us from the inside. These are NOT 3 different persons. They are ONE person who works in 3 successive ways by 3 different means.

shalom

[Zealot X]

and none of what I mentioned is irrelevant. You will learn. The devil is in the details.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

When was the last time you read Hebrews chapter 1, Ninja Zealot?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Actually, that is EXACTLY what a Trinitarian formula says! JESUS according to scriptures is GOD, and this you cannot deny.

Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

John 20:27-28 "Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto Him, my LORD and my God."

[Zealot X]

Trevor, please don't take this personal, but you're reading it wrong.

Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great G-d and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

This is speaking of 2, not 1. See you have become so blinded by making Jesus into a god that you forget about the Father. Do you see the underlined word above? It doesn't say "the great God our Saviour Jesus Christ". It's not saying that he is the first title. And is used to separate the Father and the son. Recall the fact that he is an anti-christ who denies the Father and the son. Don't just look at the Titus intro, look at ALL the intros of every epistle in the NT. Do they look similar to this?

4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from G-d the Father and the master Yeshua haMashiach our Saviour.

The fact is that YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IS BEING SPOKEN ABOUT because you are confused by church dogma. Do you see how "God" is followed by "the Father"? He doesn't have to do that, you know. "God the father" appears as a phrase only once in the 4 gospels. If he is refered to as "God" or "the Father" they still knew (because they were Israelites not pagans) that it was the same being. In the intros of the epistles you normally get the greater title of "God" applied to the father and the lesser title of "master" and "messiah" applied to Yeshua. Titus does not have to continuously use "God the Father" because he already established this in his introduction where he calls the Father G-d and the son the messiah and savior.

As far as John 1:1-3 goes, it appears you do not understand the meaning of the "Word of G-d".

As far as John 20:27-28 goes, it appears you do not understand the greek. Neither of these words necessarily means "God" as it means in English.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Did well in explaining a very shaky scripture in Titus, which I must admit to even when I posted had doubts with using it.

However, you were ABSOLUTLY POOR with the next two scriptures. You scrutinized, but did not explain a thing! Defend your ground on those verses in John.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

My Lord & My God in Hebraic understanding = Adonai & Elohim. This is not talking of deity or being Yah Himself. The same goes for the rest of the scriptures you posted.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

What a surprise, a gentleman using Hebrew for Greek text......predictable, and poor. OK, lets try this one then James:

Why is it that the Jews used the terms "Adonai & Elohim" in the first place? Is it true or not that they were used to replace the true and living GOD's name in the OT, believing His name to be too holy for Average Joe to utter? These two terms were used for the FATHER and the Son at all times in the OT and used for them both in the NT just as well. Next time, bring Greek with you to a Greek scripture, not Hebrew or Aramaic or anything else.

[Zealot X]

You will have it after you show me in 1 Clement. I will probably explain the other two in further detail anyway, but have you never dealt with anyone who, unless you held something back, they would never answer your questions or respond? I asked you first therefore I do not think it is unreasonable to receive an answer first. You wouldn't want people to think you were serving up these other texts as a distraction, would you?

You have my word that I will explain the other two verses as soon as my question is answered and don't be mad at me if one or more explanations is long.