New Covenant Debate.............

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

There has arisen an issue concerning the details of the New Covenant that our LORD and Savior YESHUA/JESUS has won for us by HIS blood and grace. Therefore, we are opening this discussion and starting it off for the edifying of the saints and the settling of the matter:

The subjects for this debate are along two lines:

-Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8: Do we still stand on the Torah?
-the Seal of the New Covenant: Is it still Sabbaths, Feasts, and Circumcision, or do we have a New Seal?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The true lawlessness demonstrated here was the refusal to adhere to the holy Epistles of CHRIST's chosen Apostles.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

I want to say something that may have been addressed for I have not read all posts. What about our witness, what power does it have if we have a law to keep?

[James Pierce]

Evan,

The Spirit does not make us free from obedience.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Very true, the Spirit makes us free from sin. If we are now free from sin, then what is the law for? The law was a schoolmaster to the O.T., a sort or "spiritual leash" to keep them in line. Now that we have the seal of the new covenant, the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD Himself, the literal mind of CHRIST, what leash is needed? If you truly love your wife, do you need a set of household rules that say "don't kill her, dont rape her, ect"? NO, but its all wrapped up in but a few words: "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church".

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Excellent reply, For by the Spirit we come into obedience, not by the law, we are not forced we choose to be obeident to God

[James Pierce]

Evan,

That is true. Its also true that we are free from the "dominance" of sin. We are not actually free from sin, because we still sin. What is sin? It is the breaking of Torah. What should one do to avoid sin? keep the Torah!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I am going to pick up from where we left of yesterday:


Ephesians 1:13-14 "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession --to the praise of his glory."

Ephesians 4:29-30 "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

You literally said that you won't address these scriptures because "you're not a legalist", but that is not a good enough reason within the Body of Christ. No scripture should be ignored for such reasons. You may say I ignore Torah for that reason, but I don't at all. On the contrary, I embrace Torah more than you because I remember GOD's FIRST decrees to us, and that we are going back to that. You were right that Torah will rule, but NOT Sabbaths, Feasts, Circumcisions, and the like found in Leviticus.

Look at Eden's government and understand, for Eden's law is the ignored portion of Torah.........

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I am only going to address a certain point. I will not have a "Torah" conversation with you anymore. How can you embrace Torah and you do not keep Torah? That makes no sense. Anyways, You say that we will go back to the original setting, where there was no Torah of Moses. You said that the only Torah Yehwah gave to us was:

1) Be fruitful and multiply
2) Subdue the earth
3) Love

Now, I know that you recall Yeshuah stating this. Matt 22:30,"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." So, there won't be any being fruitful and multiplication, and subduing the earth in the resurrection of Yehwah's people. But, of course there will be love, which is the action of TORAH!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

1) That WASN'T the subject I wanted you to address and you know it! You know the subject I wanted to address is the subject you cannot refute, and that is the truth that NO Apostle's Epistle supports your doctrine, and the Apostles were taught directly by JESUS Himself.

2) Since you want to mention Eden, lets go there real quick: You jumped to the resurrection and bypassed the life of the believers before JESUS returns, Those commands deal with us NOW!

Be Fruitful- This deals with the fruit of the Spirit mentioned in Psalms 1:1-3 and Galatians 5:22-25
Multiply- deals with Matthew 28:18-20, and Mark 10:29-30, multiplying on disciples for Christ and sons of GOD.
subdue the Earth- this deals with the Apostolic dominion given back to us by CHRIST in Matthew 16:19.

Your LORD and Savior said in Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." John's time ended and he knew it, thus bringing in the end of the old and the beginning of the new.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

LOL you keep saying that no Epistle supports my doctrine of Torah, and yet you cannot even prove and defend your Torahlessness via Yeshuah our Messiah. LOL what a joke. I will not discuss Torah with you. Your mind is too closed, and not opened to the truth. May Yehwah make you hungry for obedience.

Shalom

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The Messiah said this parable: "If a son asks his father or bread, would he give him a stone? If he asks for a fish, would he give him a serpent?"

I asked you for something SPECIFIC, and you didn't provide. Why not? If it does not exist, then admit it. If you cannot find it then there is no shame in it. But don't sit here live in front of the 10,000 members of BPN and say that you wont address such scriptures because "you're not a legalist", or just dodge it. Its not a good look for your doctrine which you claim CHRIST taught. I know what Apostle Peter said though, something I held to the whole time:

1st Peter 3:15-16 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ."

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

May Yehwah bless you, and open your heart to obedience to Torah.