One Holy Catholic/Universal & Apostolic Church???? What Say Ye???
Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Baptists, C.O.G.I.C., A.M.E........ All of these believing Churches and more still unnamed are divided and yet in one major way united: they all believer that JESUS CHRIST is Lord of all, and though some have a longer Canon of scripture than others, each believe essentially believe the same 66 books. Each one teaches that we will be a unified Church, but openly preach against each other and consider such unity a myth.......
......a myth that is, until now.....
The Anglicans and the Orthodox Churches are willing to come together and speak about unity with the Church of Rome, with certain issues being addressed such as female Bishops, divorce, and the like. A few years ago, the Joint College of African American Pentecostal Bishops went and worshiped at the Vatican with the Roman Pope. My question to all the leaders here that are willing to step up and speak is this: Many of you are Pentecostal, and some of your Bishops are apart of the J.C.A.A.P.B. council. Many of you are C.O.G.I.C., and I believe Chief Apostle & Presiding Prelate Bishop Charles Blake attend the Vatican Meeting. As Protestants where would you stand with such?
-Would you as a Presiding Prelate be united with the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Churches?
-If you're the Apostle of your Ministry, where do you stand? would you want the Pope and the Orthodox Bishops to respect you as an equal?
-Is so, what terms would be brought to the table by you, as you would expect they would bring terms?
-What terms would you respect of theirs?
-Why wouldn't you link with them if not?
DON'T PUT UP A FRONT FOR THE OTHERS ON HERE! BE REAL AND STATE WHERE YOU STAND AND WHY, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING TO BRING YOU ALL TO THE TABLE ON NEGOTIATIONS!
......a myth that is, until now.....
The Anglicans and the Orthodox Churches are willing to come together and speak about unity with the Church of Rome, with certain issues being addressed such as female Bishops, divorce, and the like. A few years ago, the Joint College of African American Pentecostal Bishops went and worshiped at the Vatican with the Roman Pope. My question to all the leaders here that are willing to step up and speak is this: Many of you are Pentecostal, and some of your Bishops are apart of the J.C.A.A.P.B. council. Many of you are C.O.G.I.C., and I believe Chief Apostle & Presiding Prelate Bishop Charles Blake attend the Vatican Meeting. As Protestants where would you stand with such?
-Would you as a Presiding Prelate be united with the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Churches?
-If you're the Apostle of your Ministry, where do you stand? would you want the Pope and the Orthodox Bishops to respect you as an equal?
-Is so, what terms would be brought to the table by you, as you would expect they would bring terms?
-What terms would you respect of theirs?
-Why wouldn't you link with them if not?
DON'T PUT UP A FRONT FOR THE OTHERS ON HERE! BE REAL AND STATE WHERE YOU STAND AND WHY, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING TO BRING YOU ALL TO THE TABLE ON NEGOTIATIONS!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Caral on
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Hezekaih, blasphemy is not fitting for a brother who proclaims JESUS as Lord.
You do claim JESUS as Lord? -
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Permalink Reply by Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene on
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Thats real! All that you said is real! I barely have such a circuit, and thats the very reason why! I openly state what I agree with or don't agree with, even if it means costing me a friendship or two.
Now, considering the fact that you are a leader of a ministry as well, where do you stand on this topic? Don't just wait for them, tell me what would you do if unity was called for throughout the Protestant Church, and what terms would you bring, and agree with if they brought some as well?
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Hi Trevor, what an excellent idea for a thread.
I have been an avid watcher of these events. We are speaking of around 269,000,000 orthodox christians across the world coming back into communion to a 1.2 billion strong church. Thats a lot of Christians.
We have had the astonishing news that the Pope had made a provision for disaffected Anglicans to easily slip into the Catholic fold, with their identity and traditions pretty much in tact.
I have read so much contradictory media analysis on the potential impact on Anglicanism as a result of this Papal offer, that frankly my head has been spinning and I have only learnt one thing with certainty, and that is nobody knows for sure what the impact will be. The conservative Anglicans are fearful that this will strengthen the liberal element of the church and visa-versa.
There is a small detail that most of the media seem to have overlooked however, and that is the impact on the Catholic church from this action. Most it would seem, have assumed little or no impact, as in terms of the numbers of Anglicans who may defect to the Papal home, this would represent nothing more than a tiny blip in the Catholic sea. However, I think there is a grander plan afoot.
It strikes me that all of those Catholic priests that have taken a vow of celibacy, may be more than a little ‘put out’ that married Anglican priests will be able to swan over to the Catholic church and be accepted as ‘kosher’ Catholic priests. Would this not cause a certain amount of resentment? Could this be the catalyst that provokes reform of the Catholic tradition of priestly celibacy?
The Pope who is an exceptionally intelligent man, would have figured all of this out in advance of course, so this leaves the question, why embark on this action, when lets face it, as stated before, the numerical numbers of defecting Anglicans will probably be negligible and the fallout within the Catholic church potentially explosive?
Whilst Anglicans think that this Papal move is all about them (and the media seems to agree), could there be a larger picture that most are missing. I would argue that this is really all about the Orthodox church.
For the first time in a millennium, the relationship between the Catholic church and the Orthodox church is thawing in a BIG way. The main division traditionally (and I confess that I am no expert) seems to have been around the infallibility of the Pope and celibacy of priests. Well, the infallibility of the Pope can be overcome as most accept that every man is fallible, but how do you overcome the problem of differing views on celibacy for the priesthood. Let’s face it, the Catholics couldn’t ask all of the married Orthodox priests to suddenly become celibate in order to have full communion and unity with the Catholic church. This leaves the option of the Catholics softening their stance on priestly celibacy.
The formal acceptance of married Anglican priests into the Catholic church is bound to cause friction from celibate Catholic priests, which ultimately may create the perfect fertile ground for reform. Once this is achieved and the Catholic church accepts non-celibate priests, what is to stand in the way of full unity and communion between the two largest churches on earth, namely, the Catholic and Orthodox churches!
The more that you read the words and view the actions of Pope Benedict, the more obvious it becomes that he is rightly theologically driven by the notion of Christian unity, (found especially in the discourse of Jesus at the last supper in the Gospel of John) consequently, I think it prudent to view his actions through this lens.
Following on from my comments above, relating to the media generally focused primarily on the impact on Anglicanism from the Papal announcements, it is lovely to read articles from Get Religion that offer a fresh counter-balance perspective, from the Catholic side of the fence.
Nasty ink about Anglo-Catholic move?
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Trevor,
To be totally honest we are seriously considering the Holy See's offer of being able to have our own liturgy and identify and to continue in tact. However, there are still issues that need to be over come.
Blessings
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Permalink Reply by HOPE - Psalm 43:5 on
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a one world religion perhaps? Like you Doretta, I need to research this more before saying I'm in or out. But again, it seems like a great idea but it also seems like the beginning of a one world religion.
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Technically speaking, the Church IS supposed to be unified, and the Church IS political! Where do you think the term Apostolic comes from?
I'm simply asking would any of you unify with the rest of the Church, and if so, what terms would you bring to the table as leaders. what terms would you respect or reject? This was not Muslims and Buddhists, but different Christian denominations. I know where I stand on this issue, I just want to see where the other leaders are with this.....
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With all things that have been stated taken into consideration, honestly, many still didn't state where they stood clearly. OK, lemme make it clear cut and easy for everyone:
In your ministry mail, you see an envelope addressed from Vatican City. You open it with care and wonder, and to your surprise you see a letter with the wax seal of the Pope himself on it, stating that his Eminence, Papa Benedict wishes audience with you as well as other Bishops, Archbishops, and Apostles in a Holy Synod in an effort to unify the Protestant Church with the Roman Catholics, not for money, but for full respect and recognition in Catholic Churches globally.
Do you go? If yes, what terms or agreements are you bringing to the Synod's table? What will you agree with when they bring terms (meaning what are your limits)? Would you go as far as to recognize the Pope as the top Christian official this side of Heaven?
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Permalink Reply by Hezekiah Ben Israel on
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Revelation 17: 1-5 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Does she not tell you every "ash wednesday" to put a mark on your right hand or on your forehead?
Revelation 18 3:5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Have not the Merchants been made rich with Christmas, Easter, Black Friday, Halloween, Valentine's day, Etc?
Revelation 18 7-9 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Revelation 18:11-19 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Isaiah 29:9-13 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Matthew 15:1-9 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Pat Harris on
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Trevor, although I do not hold an office as a Pastor, Bishop, Apostle, etc., I would have to say that I would accept the Pope's invitation for the purpose of entering into dialogue on the topic of a unified ministry. Of course, I would do an in depth research and prepare my statements, proposals, terms and conditions as led by the Holy Spirit.
It's one thing for all of us to believe in Jesus and what He did on the Cross. It's another to establish and implement's man's system of leadership roles based on differences of scriptural interpretation when addressing the five fold ministry and other ordinances.
A unified body of believers, as I see it will study, preach and teach the same doctrine from the same Bible because we would be serving ONE GOD who speaks ONE TRUTH TO ALL OF HIS PEOPLE!
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Did you not just read those scriptures? He is promoting Satan's Church.
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Amen Chaplain Pat.
That is pure wisdom.
ONE GOD who speaks ONE TRUTH TO ALL OF HIS PEOPLE!
Truth is a person. Jesus Christ.
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with all do respect sister Caral, What is the truth that the Lord speaks to all of his people?
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