One Holy Catholic/Universal & Apostolic Church???? What Say Ye???

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Baptists, C.O.G.I.C., A.M.E........ All of these believing Churches and more still unnamed are divided and yet in one major way united: they all believer that JESUS CHRIST is Lord of all, and though some have a longer Canon of scripture than others, each believe essentially believe the same 66 books. Each one teaches that we will be a unified Church, but openly preach against each other and consider such unity a myth.......

......a myth that is, until now.....



The Anglicans and the Orthodox Churches are willing to come together and speak about unity with the Church of Rome, with certain issues being addressed such as female Bishops, divorce, and the like. A few years ago, the Joint College of African American Pentecostal Bishops went and worshiped at the Vatican with the Roman Pope. My question to all the leaders here that are willing to step up and speak is this: Many of you are Pentecostal, and some of your Bishops are apart of the J.C.A.A.P.B. council. Many of you are C.O.G.I.C., and I believe Chief Apostle & Presiding Prelate Bishop Charles Blake attend the Vatican Meeting. As Protestants where would you stand with such?

-Would you as a Presiding Prelate be united with the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Churches?
-If you're the Apostle of your Ministry, where do you stand? would you want the Pope and the Orthodox Bishops to respect you as an equal?
-Is so, what terms would be brought to the table by you, as you would expect they would bring terms?
-What terms would you respect of theirs?
-Why wouldn't you link with them if not?

DON'T PUT UP A FRONT FOR THE OTHERS ON HERE! BE REAL AND STATE WHERE YOU STAND AND WHY, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING TO BRING YOU ALL TO THE TABLE ON NEGOTIATIONS!

[Caral]

This is scripture from the 1 John (AV) coming against gnosticism. Why?

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

That is the KJV and read it. Did you not read it?

[Caral]

AV is KJV. The Authorised Version.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I would prefer to simple refer to it simply as the KJV, and not the AV. One of the issues that would be on the table in a meeting with Rome or another faction of Christianity is the Canon of Scripture. I know that I would raise that issue myself!

[Caral]

Hi Trevor,

Cultural differences, amazing. In the UK, KJV amongst all protestant denominations is known as the AV, (particularly by the elder generations) as it was authorized in 1611.

I believe that KJV is used very heavily still on your side of the pond. Here the KJV was retired some time ago from the majority of churches, (I believe that some of the large African churches still use it) but if you say the AV everyone knows what you speak of.

However, the Catholic bibles are the New Jerusalem Bible and The Douay-Rheims Version.

The Canon is the Canon. The 7 extra books, in the Catholic bibles are Deutrocanonical books. Second Canon.

The KJV originally had the 7 deutrocanonical plus 3 additional Apocryphal books, but the Bible Society decided to stop the printing of them all in 1826 due to lack funds.

Interestingly, I think it would also depend on how you see scripture, if you come from a Sola Scriptura position or Prima Scriptura.

The anglo-catholics (part of the Anglicans) use the Apocryphal, for example in our local Cathedral you will find it as part of the lectionary.

But you probably know all of this anyway.
Blessings.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Yea, I kinda knew it, but it never hurts to speak on it. I take it as a refresher! One thing that I wasn't fully aware of was:

"The KJV originally had the 7 deutrocanonical plus 3 additional Apocryphal books, but the Bible Society decided to stop the printing of them all in 1826 due to lack funds."

I would expect the Anglicans to have such a Canon because they really are Roman Catholic. Their separation from Rome was different from the separation brought by the likes of Calvin, Luther and the rest.

I come from a Prima Scriptura position, because the truth of the matter is there is no place in the Bible that teaches us to to strictly by the Bible, however Peter, John, James, Paul, and Jude taught otherwise within their Epistles.

[Caral]

I would expect the Anglicans to have such a Canon because they really are Roman Catholic. Their separation from Rome was different from the separation brought by the likes of Calvin, Luther and the rest.

Trevor I find that most interesting, and my ex Bishop Michael Ali Nazir would be stunned into jawdropping silence..lol.

The Anglican communion is a funny breed, it is world wide, and covers the most traditional pure protestantism tracing directly back to Luther and Calvin. Some of the foremost infuence evangelical theologicans come from the Anglican church, Tom Wright, John Stott, Alister McGrath, let alone great scholars of biblcal hermeneutics. They are the richest dioceses in Britain (Liberals don't tithe!) and have far reaching and very very strong churches in Africa

Yet on the other end of the scale, we have Anglo catholics, which as it says it very Catholic, except with its own liturgy and lectionary. The anglo catholics are the ones that are ripe for the picking and and the Pope is hoping to pop them into his basket.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I only said that because of the nature of their separation from Rome. It wasn't because of "righteousness" and a good study session on hermeneutics. It was because of a heretic king.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

This is the church of Satan in Rome.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Hezekiah, stick to the subject for once please.......

Yes, the roman Catholic Church is corrupt, but we weren't even really speaking about them at that moment.

[Caral]

It wasn't because of "righteousness" and a good study session on hermeneutics. It was because of a heretic king.

LOL ..Excellent, speak just like it was Brother!!

Borne beacause one man's lust of a woman, died because of one man's lust for a man.

(King Henry VIII and Bishop Gene Robinson)

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

James 2:14-24 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.