Questions for the Hebrew Israelite Brethren and Sisteren...

[newview]

Why are you guys of the Hebrew Israelite denomination so caught up in the flesh - OT, OT, OT. Have you guys ever been effected by that which is spiritual?

Do miracles ever happen amongst your congregants - like other wordly happenings - things that you can't explain and yet don't contradict the word of God?

Do you guys ever speak in tongues under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost? and if so Have they been interpretated and if so - what were a few of the messages?

Does the Lord ever give y'all visions? Daytime visions?

When there is sick among you - has your elders been called to anoint the sick with oil and pray for them and you see them miraculously healed?

Are there any-any-any white people in any of your congregations? or have there ever been any at one time but are now gone?

Do you guys believe in the resurrection of the dead?

Do you sing songs? If so - name at least 5.

Do you dance for joy in the Lord?

Are there any in your congregations who prophesy on things to come? - if so - please share a few.

When I read yall posts I often wonder if there is any joy and anything spiritual going on in your assemblies. It does not seem so, but there could be alot going on and you guys are just not sharing it with us.
And if your goal is to convert - you really need to step out and say something that the board can know or at least surmise that the God of Heaven steps out of Eternity and deals with your group(s).
I dont want it to seem that I am asking for a sign but I guess I am because the early church brought with their doctrine power and demonstration.

Otherwise - to me at least - it seems that what you brothers are sharing is stagnant.
And I say that out of love. I really enjoy scrapping with you guys over many of the subjects but when it gets down to business - outside of the OT - there is a dead pool effect going on.

Besides striving about the Law - share with the board how God deals with you guys mightily.

In Peace

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

There were Galatians that kept the commandments.

[Zealot X]

This shows the reason why there are many other things that need to be addressed other than simply "keep the commandments". I'm not knocking what you guys are trying to do but if they don't understand Paul they're NOT going to understand Yeshua and that is one of the main reasons there is a domino effect against Torah.

shalom

[Zealot X]

Newview, Hello. I have two serious questions for you. I would be happy if you would do me the honor of an honest answer.

Yeshua was the LIVING TORAH. That is foundation for these questions.

1) would it be better if they said:

Yeshua didn't bear false witness.
Yeshua kept the sabbath.
Yeshua had no other gods.
Yeshua had not graven images.
Yeshua did not commit adultery.

and so forth?

2) If they did would they be telling you anything you didn't already know?



Thank you for your time and Yah bless.

Shalom

[newview]

Hi Zealot,

Please re-word the questions because I dont understand...sorry sometimes that happens with my brain.

[Zealot X]

um...okay? Hmmm. Let's see.

Would it be better if the Israelites on this forum who you are complaining about being too-torah focused, instead of talking about how you should keep the law, talked instead more about how the Messiah kept the law? You had said that they talk more about the law than the "risen Christ". It is my personal position that the Messiah was the ultimate expression of the law. Instead of the law simply being expressed by words it was expressed by his life. For me the law is much bigger than anything that is written, but no life that is lawful would contradict what is written because that too is an expression of the law which is itself an expression of the character of the Most High; our Creator and Father.

Again, would it be better if the Israelites on this forum spent more time talking about the life of Yeshua and how it expressed the law? How his life was a perfect example of BOTH the LETTER AND THE HEART of the law?

That was the first question re-worded for you.


The second question is.... if they did all that which I just mentioned. Would they be telling you anything you didn't already know? Would it be new information for you? Would you be edified? Would you change? Would you repent of everything in your life that is different from the way that the messiah lived? Would you follow his example?

Thanks in advance.


Shalom

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Chaplain, you said:

"Your comment is duly noted, as well as the attitude. So, are you implying that what Jesus said in John 15:12-14 should be taken into account more than what He said in Matthew 22:35-40? Or, are you saying that when it comes to you personally, you would prefer that we follow John 15:12-14 rather than Matthew 22:35-40?

Don't love me like you love yourself, because you don't know how to really love yourselves; love me like Christ loves me.

I am also aware that tithing was first revealed in Genesis; but was it not also included in the Ceremonial Laws (Lev. 14:20)? If so, then tithing was also nailed to the cross - true?"


Interestingly enough your reference to Matthew 22:35-40 is valid ONLY for the Old covenant. The lawyer stated clearly in verse 36 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" The Law meant "The Law of Moses". We are not under that covenant any longer, but under the Law of Christ. The Law of Moses was for the Covenant of Mt. Sinai. The Law of Christ is for the covenant of Calvary.

Lets take this question: if I asked you which is the greatest law of one covenant, would that ;aw apply for a totally new covenant? That is literally the situation that you are trying to deal with. JESUS was asked about the greatest law of the old covenant, so why would that apply to a new covenant? A fair question to ask now is this:

"Which is the greatest commandment of the new covenant?" Even if the first answer is still the same, I guarantee you that the second greatest will not be the same.

Yes, I want you to love me like Christ loves me. JESUS has a perfect love, while we all have a love that is flawed in some way shape or form, be it a big flaw or small. So, would you want me to love you the best that I can (flaws and all that may hurt you), or the best that Christ can (a perfect love with no flaws)? Be honest........

Tithing is a constant. It was used for the benefit of the Levites. Before Levi ever was born, Melchizedek used it, and even Isaac gave it. When the Apostles were alive, Paul spoke of the Churches giving it. It should be considered the Kingdom tax, for it is used for the support of and the spreading of the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Trevor,

So the scripture, Matthew 22:35-40 was in reference to the OT Covenant. OK, I'm beginning to understand. The scriptures the Pharisees were referring to were those of the Torah , since the NT scriptures were non-existent at that time. However, it was my understanding that although Jesus was responding to the OT Covenant, that the principle of this scripture in Matthew would be applicable today since the first and greatest commandment says we should love God, which is in line with the 1st commandment of the Ten Commandments, and in order to love man the way Jesus did is to love God/Jesus first.

My understanding of love man as I love myself was more in line with the Golden Rule. But, the bottom line is that in order to love anyone the way we should has to start with loving God first and learning how to love the way He intends for us to love.

As for tithing, I'm all for supporting the Kingdom. But the problem I am having is that there is so much talk about ALL OF THE LAWS being nailed to the cross, yet THIS ONE LAW (tithing) is considered a constant. This is a hard pill for me to swallow at this time because it appears contradictory; so I will continue to seek the Lord on this one.

Thanks for your time and response. I am always willing to learn and I welcome and accept correction when necessary.

Peace in Jeus

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The first commandment is a forever one. However, the concept of it has altered. Before, people were to deal with YHWH directly, and that was done only by way of the Tabernacle, the earthly High Priest, and the Ark of the Covenant, and so on. The Prophet John the Baptist pointed to the one that was to come, Messiah, the Captain of the Host of YHWH. Both OT Prophets & NT Epistles show us exactly how to do that, and that is by honoring His only begotten Son. For far too long, these men on here speak of the Torah, which was but a schoolmaster to teach and keep you until the Messiah came. The Prophets, and Poetic writings of the OT however (something they RARELY ever mentioned), pointed "past" and "ahead" towards the perfect One, the holy One, who we shall worship, thus truly fulfilling the greatest commandment:

Psalm 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

Isaiah 7:13-16 "And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (literally meaning "GOD with Us"). Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings."

Hebrews 1:1-3 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"

Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Acts 4:10-12 "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."


Therefore, the first commandment of the NT is still "love the LORD thy GOD with all thy heart....", but it points to loving JESUS and serving Him. By doing this, you will have the FATHER, and the FATHER will receive you:

1st John 2:22-23 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."


The Golden Rule is nice: WHO EVER HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES!! LOL (Sorry, a lil prosperity doctrine humor for Bro Watson to attack! ) Seriously, the Golden Rule would be: "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you". That sounds good, but truth be told, even that is flawed. What if you don't know any better? You'll continue to do unto others, thinking even in innocence, but ignorance, that you're doing right, when in fact, you doing wrong. Take a teenage parent for example: young mothers and fathers in their teens 9 outta 10 times don't know any better, and Heaven help us if their parents are good parents either! The next generation is in trouble because the Golden Rule has one major flaw: ignorance. In many cultures around the world and throughout history, a newborn child would be discarded and left to die if it looked sickly. How golden is that rule?

A Christian is literally supposed to be "like Christ", therefore we are to love one another "Like Christ" love us. Don't love me according to your ignorance, but love me according to GOD's wisdom. So your statement coincides with the second greatest commandment of the New covenant.

As for tithing, you make a strong point. However, consider this:

-tithing is for the spreading of the Kingdom of GOD to fulfill the Great Commission

-NT tithing is not "you giving GOD His ten percent", for technically speaking all is His. It is rather GOD trusting and allowing you to invest His 90% in other places for daily Kingdom needs (note: if you're an Ambassador of the Kingdom, then your personal needs are legally considered Kingdom matters), while storing 10% of what is His for other reasons or another time, and the upkeep of His Church and Ministry workers.

-The tithe was a traditional practice of a show of gratitude towards the GOD you worshiped before the Law of Moses ever existed. It later was included into the Law of Moses as a "Temple tax". Cain and Abel were the first recorded tithers, and we know that they were LOOOOONG before the Law of Moses! The tithe was always to the LORD directly by doing what HE wills with it, or to His priests so that they will doing what HE commands with it. To consider only giving a "free-will offering" is technically speaking jst word-play. Its all the same. The tithe however is not burdensome for its only the first part and a tenth. It keeps from being a burden, and at the same time keeps from people short-changing GOD.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Bro. Trevor . . .NOW I GET IT, AGAIN!

Why didn't you explain this in the FIRST PLACE? :-)

Whew! This demonic attack I am under right now has me going in circles, causing me to question things I had already learned. Please count it to my head and not my heart.

Pray for me . . .

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

No prob!! Believe me sis, you'll be aight!


LOL!

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

All of that was lined up nicely Brother Trevor, but you are forgetting one main thing. LOve. Love is the keeping of the commandments.You describe love like swapping spit, or hugging someone, or how you love your wife or your family. That is not love. Man made that kind of Love. We need to accept what the Bible's definition of Love, and sin. You know from my previous posts what the definition of both of those words mean. Sin is the Transgression of the Law, and Love is the keeping of the Commandments of God.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Hezekiah,

Until you come into the full knowledge, understanding and acceptance of of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will never know or experience the love of God the Father.