Salvation is it eternal regardless of the circumstances or not come on lets get everyone’s opinion

But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.

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Rev. Anthony R Watson,

Your remarks are beautifully stated - Outstanding!

God is the highest form of intelligence known to man and your words of wisdom give proof that we are created in His image. U better Preach. I love it......

Although I am certain you are not interested in any answer and that your asking questions, not to find something out, but through questions you are trying to make a point that books are a good thing and it is important to read a lot of books, not because it is good that I read them, but justifies why you read them.

 

Getting real is to discuss real things of Christ, maybe how to accomplish His will or perhaps what prevents us from accomplishing His will. Those are important things to discuss. Somewhere along the line we need to ask ourselves if reading books is exactly what He had in mind? Reading books does not replace what we are supposed to do with ourselves. Reading books makes us feel like we are accomplishing something. It makes us feel good about ourselves so we can tell others that reading books is a worthwhile cause, so they too can do less instead of more.

 

The facts are there are some 14,000 people per day that starve to death and while that is incredibly hard to fathom, what is harder for me to fathom is why the body of Christ does not have the heart of God to end starvation. Ending starvation is not a matter of too many people or too little food, but it is a thing about control and power. It is about choosing who lives and who dies. When we the body do little or nothing to end it, then it is we the body that is allowing it, because there are enough professed Christian on earth, supposedly following Christ to end starvation. So perhaps it is Christ's will that they starve to death? Is that what the body of Christ is saying? That these people are not worth saving? Reading a book will do little or nothing to bring God's love or justice. Doing something does help. The rest is simply just talk.

 

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on reading a lot of books? Then you justify your reading all the books by throwing into the conversation that God likes books. Of course you will not find that in scripture, but that doesn't make any difference. The statement is that "God likes books." So I wonder in the order of importance, how important it is to God that we read a bunch of books?

 

I do know that there are more than 6 million books on or about Christianity written in a positive light, which does not include the other books about Christianity that are not written in a positive light. Of course then we can talk about which books are more important to read? Everyone reading a lot of books will probably have a different opinion and maybe someone else will write yet another book of which books seem to be more important than the other. One thing for sure is somebodies making a lot of money off of those 6 million books. I would submit that if that money went to feeding the hungry, there probably would be enough money raised to end starvation or at least put a good dent in it?

 

There are one of two responses to the verse "faith cometh by hearing and hearing cometh by the word." One answer is that faith cometh from hearing the word, while a much smaller percentage is that faith cometh by hearing Jesus and actually doing or becoming the word. One must decide which is more important.

 

In #6 I am a little confused as I am not sure what me buying your book as to do with what the Bible is about. Everyone seems to interpret it differently which is why probably there are more than 20,000 sects of Christianity, even though everyone agrees that division is of the devil. Go figure?

 

#5 My statement about God not being impressed by books. That pretty much is a no brainer. He does not say anywhere that is impressed with books. If He was, He probably would have mentioned it. Books are about knowledge, We like to read and write them so we can decide what is good or what is evil.

 

In #(4) you said,  "In paragraph seven of your previous post, you wrote about what God has not taught you, and you gave as examples, "tenses," and "dispensations." I just wanted to mention that just because God has not taught and revealed to you certain truths, does not mean that He has not taught and revealed certain things to others. Dr. Carrol, believe it or not, you do not know it all, and God has not revealed everything to you."

 

To this I say no He did not teach me that those other things are important, but then again you did not say that He taught you that they were important. If He did you would probably have mentioned it?

 

#3 Do I have a problem with books. I personally have a problem with something that is not either a representation of His love or will. One either rights about love or one loves. I think the point from God's perspective is Love. One cannot learn about love through a book. One cannot witness God's love by reading a book. We each are an example. If that is true and if all we have to show in life is reading a book, perhaps we are in trouble. Jesus did not say, "they will know that you are mine, by all the cool books you write or even read for that matter." He did say, "they will know that you are mine by your love one for the other and books have little to do with that.

 

#2 I said, "Many seem to think that the reading of the books are "the" personal relationship." You don't agree with that. Well one needs to go to the different denominations in Christianity and find out how many teach that one cannot count on what they hear in their heads. They teach one should not listen to voices, that one cannot trust them. There are more Christian denominations that teach that than what it takes to be a son of God, which happens when one is being led by His Spirit, listening to His voice. My sheep will know my voice? Well, if one does not believe in listening to voices then they are going to have a problem with "knowing His voice."

 

#1 It is pretty simple, it is about 6% of the people in the body of Christ that is doing about 90% of what is getting done. That is fairly obvious? All one needs to do is go outside and see what is happening.

 

Last but not least you said, ""For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." In other words, we need each other, and the fact of the matter is that none of us knows it all. Even though you may admit at this point that you don't everything, you do come across as if you do."

 

I take it you believe in the five fold gift ministry?

 

Yes I don't know everything. I only know what God taught me. I am fairly certain no one knows everything? Are you saying you know everything? I mean the only one that would make a statement like you made about me is "one who knows everything?"

 

With the things of God it is more important to know little and do it, then to know so much and do little. We are all responsible for what we know to be true, which means the more you know the more responsible your going to be for what is happening on earth. That should concern you?

 

 

 

 

If no other thing, i admires your unique personality expressed by your way of constructing sentences.It reminds me of different personality God used in the Scripture.

I didn't read your posting before i replied our dear Dr. Carrol. Informing her/him about different spiritual gifts, their purposes and functions.You know, truth is hard to swallow. Our sin nature hates truth with mortal hatred. Nevertheless, we must not relent nor compromise, but love, anyway.

I hope and pray that your book in the making might be a sell out. Thank you so very much.

My dear, i think one of the greatest problem facing the church is the issue of using experience to interpret the Bible, and invariable our fellowship with God. Experience is good, but it is not the standard, the written, completed canon of scripture is the only standard. That is why we shall do well if only we study it and follow its instructions. Sometimes we think that we are doing the Lord's work, but those our good works are repugnant to God. In God's integrity, the means does not justify the end.

I must commend you and your team for the good work, at least from a human point of view. But i want  to suggest that we must not despise and dispute those God has given the spiritual gift of pastor-teacher. Their job description is to sit down, spent time with God, in studying the Scripture. And to communicate same lucidly. It takes two to tango, says a proverb. Every one of us must not be involved in the help ministry.For spiritual gifts varies, in God's economy. Remember, Hosea 4:6; says that God's people are being destroyed because they lack knowledge( Bible Doctrine). Also the Word of God comes the power of God. We may be sincere in our Christian or spiritual ethics and etiquette, but we are sincerely wrong. God has divine integrity, if a right thing is done the wrong way, it is wrong. a right thing must be done the right way for it to be acceptable to His nature of absolute Righteousness.

The characteristics of Bible doctrine is correction and reproof. According to 2Tim.3:16-17, All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate equipped for every good work. Without going into exegesis of this verses, I would like to point out that, i never had any intention to hurt your feeling. You know what, doctrines sometimes hurts our philosophy and perspective. May be, it is a stack reminder to adjust certain views, if only we will accept.

From history, i know that many Jews harbor bitterness and resentment because of those Christian crusaders, which is one of the unfortunate event in church history. However, when any Jew become a believer, he or she must learn so that those strong hold could be erased from the subconsciousness.

Finally, where ever i hurt your feeling, i ask for forgiveness. But know it that because God is Love, therefore, i extend same to you by sharing doctrines. Prays for you as well. Thanks, and have a godly and victorious life.

Let me try to draw you a picture if I may? Well ok even if you do not want, I am going to draw a picture of what happens out there and even in here. Experiences are everything and teaching other than experiences I find in huge error because all any of us have is our testimony and our testimony is not what Moses, Aaron, Paul, David and the rest of everyone did. Our testimony is what is experienced. Why is that important? Because people are hurting and what they are looking for is answers and so they end up with one of two types, one that has a testimony because they have actually experienced healing or whatever and then has something real to talk about or the other type is to get a person that can only say "well Jesus can fix that."

 

So then this person that doesn't know any better buys the "Jesus can do that stuff" then they find out that Jesus didn't do that, but try to hang on anyway thinking they might even be loved in the body of Christ, but honestly that rarely happens, so what experience do they end up with? Not much and then fall away and theologians even in here are really critical with people. I have to be honest it is a load of crap. Even being on here makes me wonder why we even try to help others? Geeze you think one could get some encouragement by all you saintly wonderful bible thumping no loving creatures and you call that being saved?

 

Oh yes there is a lot of wonderful teaching and preaching about what Paul did. Who cares? What do you do? That is what matters. Do you care enough to do anything about anything? I have one idiot REVEREND (wow watch out God) that doesn't even believe that 14,000 per day are starving to death. What kind of sick love is that. Church wake up. If you want God's grace, patience and provision you have to give. The heart that gives is the one thats saved; however people and even people in here believe that just because God has talked to you that they are saved. Shoot smart people wake up. God will talk to jackass, which does not mean jackasses are going to make it to heaven.

 

Jews harbor bitterness? How many Jews do you know? I person that is grafted into the promise is by definition a Jew, because the word Jew means "God's people." If your a Christian then you should be resentful of the crusades and stealing the land from Indians and taking money to build building instead of caring for people. God gave you a gift which was to influence people and what do you do with that gift? Teach them they have to be some know it all, when in actuality it is about love?

 

"You know what, doctrines sometimes hurts our philosophy and perspective. May be, it is a stack reminder to adjust certain views, if only we will accept." Honestly if I were going to your church I would want my money back! IF we will accept doctrinal view of leaders in the church? Get a clue the reason it is a mess out there is because all the leaders of the church are not living the example of love, but have gone in the path of knowledge. Love does not take knowledge. Love takes love.

 

"God has divine integrity, if a right thing is done the wrong way, it is wrong. a right thing must be done the right way for it to be acceptable to His nature of absolute Righteousness." Where have you learned this. Love takes love. Love is the right way to do things. One of the biggest deeds of man and of the body as individuals is knowledge. Oh yes, Knowledge is power? Love is greater power!

 

For those that like Pauline writings, try this one out for size? It is saying that salvation comes by getting rid of the deeds of the body. It says clearly if one does not they shall not live. Living after the flesh is Knowledge so one can pick and choose what one does. It makes them gods to themselves and what is worse with all of that knowledge and influence it takes people straight to hell in a hand basket. It is salvation to us to love one another. Dadgum I think Jesus even said that? The yard stick He uses to see if one belongs to Him is whether we love one another. Not how much you know or think you know! It doesn't say that in scripture anywhere. That is the doctrine of men. 

 

So we sit around here trying to kid ourselves and each other that once saved always saved whether we love or not? Get a clue, Mathew 25:31-46 tells us it is the righteous, the ones that have all this great knowledge, that say, when did we see you ever hunger or naked or sick or in prison? And what happens, they were told to go away because He never knew you. That should be a wake up call to anyone! It is about love and caring for one another.

 

It is about the church sure accepting money, but then helping those in the church. To care for their needs when they are sick and old. What do we tell them? Go to the government or well, you should have saved for your retirement? Food Stamps exist because the church does not even have the love to feed people! Wake up!

 

That does not glorify God. It makes Him ashamed of us, which is by the way not salvation. People in here talk about the sealing and all that good stuff. OK well if you have not experienced the sealing yourself and if your just going by what it says in scripture I would really suggest you be seeking God, because it is all a personal experience. Have you experienced a time when He put His robe on you or gave you His ring? If not why not? Ok so then we come up with a teaching because we have not experienced those things that they are just stories or something we do not experience until we get to heaven or some other such teaching.

 

Wrong.................. It is to be experienced today and either one has experienced those things or one has not. Either He has changed your name and you have experienced that and you know the name He changed it to or you do not and have not experienced it.

 

Is this what The Dallas Theological Seminary is teaching? Is this what Yale is teaching? If so, get your money back! The Word of God is Jesus and not the book. It does not say it is the book anywhere in scripture. It says that Jesus is the Word and was the Word and we are supposed to be living epistles of that word, not the Bible but the living word of the Word, Jesus and our experience with Him.

 

Most of you may not even understand what I am saying and that is Ok, but what you should understand is that what I am saying is, drop the books and spend some time with God. The things that I speak are not of men.

 


For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live

Romans 8:13

I enjoyed reading your scriptural references. Thanks.
ok
Dear Dr. Sarah, After reading through your comment, i think this verse in the Holy Scripture is a better response to you. 1 Timothy 4:1;But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

"Come on pseudo-Dr. Carrol, let us reason together."

 

I find REVEREND, to start with if you can tell me who made you a Reverend I would be happy to swap credentials. I am fairly certain it was man that made you a REVEREND and not God. What matters is what God says we are and not what man seems to think. 

 

As for being a Jew, I was born that way. Your point? Slave trade? Your kidding right? Is that the best you have? Are the commandments no longer real that you are not to swear false statements against another? Oh yes you have the out that your asking a question, so you can stand clean before God and say that you did not make false statements, but asked a question. I will make a statement that if one does not keep the commandments they do not love God. 

 

The facts on what is happening out there are fairly indisputable. Each day some 14,000 people starve to death, far more are homeless, even more sick and the prisons are full, both in the prisons and in the church. 

 

The topic of this thread is about "what one feels about what salvation is?" Obviously salvation to the Reverend means that it makes no difference what a REVEREND does or does not do to solve problems and they can still be saved. Falling away from the faith is to either not do something about what is happening out their or giving up the faith, not believing we can do something out there.

 

I will state emphatically, that I not only believe something can be done about the mess that is out there, but I believe so to the point of laying down my life and will so that others can live. 

 

What one should be asking is "what exactly is God's will?" Well for the Jew's it was to represent the love and will of God to all people on earth. For some reason in the New Testament that stopped being the goal. Today one is saved by saying they are "saved" apparently? So the story is and I guess the consensus is that Jesus came, gave His life, died and was resurrected so His chosen can do what they want regardless and they are still saved?

 

Jesus sort of had a good definition of being saved which was that we belong to Him, but to do that we are supposed to love one another. Ok I can deal with that, I will send everybody a valentine? Ok I will build a building so I can preach on the virtues of salvation or better yet, write one of more than 6 million books on Christianity. Mean time 14,000 per day starve to death, countless are homeless, even more sick and those in prisons, but at least I can go around touting that I am saved. Why? Cause I say so! Is that living in faith? Walking around convincing ourselves and everyone else that I am saved? Ok ok once in a while I will lead someone to Christ, but I won't teach them we are supposed to love one another or deal with starvation or homelessness or care for the sick or those in prison, I will just tell them that all the have to so is say this cool prayer and they are saved for eternity.

 

It is little wonder why the planet is such a mess? Mean while while all that is going on church buildings are going up at an alarming rate, spending billions on stuff. As I have tried to indicate before that starvation is not a matter of too many people and too little food, it is a matter of power and girls and women are at greater risk then men. The point (I thought, silly me) was that the men of God would stand up for what is right, to work to end starvation and the other problems. 

 

Being a person of God I would think at least takes more than just saying they are a "Christian?" Maybe it is a thing of correcting one's spelling or trying to infer something about the slave trade? Give me a break! Use a little of that fear of the Lord to care about the things He does, maybe? He is not much on titles or fanfare. He cares more about having a heart to fix the problem and either we do or don't but looking through the whole thread, I have  yet to find anyone stating that salvation was having a heart for God and what He cared about. I have however, seen everything else. 

 

MAYBE, just maybe we are all concerned about being separated from God because we really do not have a heart for the things God really cares about so we work to convince each other instead of making God happy and actually getting to it and solving the problems?

 

As far as the White House is concerned. Used to stay at the Hay Adams hotel, which was right across the street from the White House. In my suite it even had direct lines into the White House and the State Department. Even having been there, the White House does not have the ability to end starvation, only the body of Christ does.

 

As far as me knowing what some Jews did or did not do, has nothing to do with me. I am not even sure what that has to do with anything? I mean, help me out what does that have to do with this thread or even the price of beans? While you think it intelligent of me to find out about it. To me it sounds like a waste of time. 

 

Yes I do work at ending starvation and it will be accomplished in Jesus name. Jesus knows what is at stake.

 

You have said this a couple times and I guess you did not understand my response. Your complaint is with God and or Jesus, not me. "Your preparation and knowledge of theology, hermeneutics, Biblical exegesis, Biblical languages, and Biblical exposition is severely limited, and in most cases, totally absent." I will say that I do understand what I am supposed to. I sort of wonder if Jesus knows all those things? Probably not. I don't see anywhere in scripture that it is important? Why is it important? Are you saying that all people need to know that stuff in order to represent the love and will of God. Hope not, Paul probably didn't know half of it.

 

What your failing to understand is that you are not over me. You don't have the right to even ask what I have a doctorate in. You just want to know so you can argue about it or prove some point other than this thread or perhaps prove to your peers that I am not smart! OK I admit it, I am a blond or sometimes red headed ditz. Make you happy? I will tell you that I am a psychologist and specialize in communications.

 

Now back to the thread at hand, which none of that has anything to do with this thread. What has to do with this thread seems to be two questions. The first question is what is salvation and second question is, if salvation was eternal. My point was that in the Old Testament salvation was not eternal. Now granted Paul wrote that we have a better covenant, he never does say that salvation is eternal. Of course he didn't say it was not either.

 

What I find humorous at best is people even on this thread will make comments like, the person wasn't probably saved to begin with, but for those that are saved, it's eternal. So if one says that someone may not have been saved, then what really needs to be defined is "what is salvation," and then from there one can try to figure out it is eternal.

 

Now some in this thread would say that salvation is "just believing" something or other, but Satan is the biggest believer and he probably will not make it either. Granted, Satan is but an angel.

 

You said, "To have a thorough understanding of Soteriology  (salvation), one has to know  the origin of salvation, the theories of salvation, the nature of salvation, the evidence of salvation, the assurance of salvation, the extent of salvation, the exclusivity of salvation, the results of salvation, the condition of salvation, the contents of salvation, and the completion of salvation." I swear you make stuff up to make some kind of point. If a child can understand it (and although there are some pretty bright kids), I don't think that most would even understand your point.

 

What is your point? Are you saying that evangelists should explain to someone "a thorough understanding of Soteriology  (salvation), one has to know  the origin of salvation, the theories of salvation, the nature of salvation, the evidence of salvation, the assurance of salvation, the extent of salvation, the exclusivity of salvation, the results of salvation, the condition of salvation, the contents of salvation, and the completion of salvation?"

 

I think your trying to impress people. I can say that one of the results of salvation is not having the planet in the mess it is should be one of the results of salvation and as there are 2 billion, give or take Christians on this planet, that should be enough to have a fairly decent result. So the result of salvation is a bigger mess? Is that your point? Apparently you believe that salvation is for the next life.

 

My point is that if one cannot walk with God here (here today, right now), then how in the heck are we going to be able to do it in the next life time?

 

While you say this about me, "This is just another example that you, Sarah, don't know what you are talking about. You don't know, and don't want to know. This is one of the reasons why I believe that you have an unteachable spirit, and I am more and more convinced of that as each day goes by." Then if we are equal, the same can be said about you.

 

Talking about me is not proving your point that salvation is eternal. You were trying to prove to me that salvation is eternal and for such a learned one as yourself, you have failed to prove your point, except to say that I was unteachable. So......... every woman that does not agree with you or do what you tell them to do is unteachable. 

 

Making your point is making your point. If need to try to put me down to make your point, then I would suggest your point is weak at best.

 

Please for us ignorant people, show us in scripture where it says specifically that "salvation is eternal." Please. Here is a good one. You can't because it is not there. God is pretty clear mostly, He could have said anywhere anytime that Salvation was eternal, but He didn't. What is happening is that with all the teaching and all the books and all that wonderful stuff, you will find it is a teaching that came from somewhere, that "salvation is eternal."

 

If you cannot provide some sort of scripture that says specifically that "salvation is eternal," then it is coming from some sort of teaching. Make sense? If Jesus or Peter or John or even if Paul had said specifically anywhere in scripture that salvation was eternal this thread would not exist.It can only exist because it is a belief that it is eternal.

 

Now what is acceptable proof is, if God said to you that your salvation is eternal I would be impressed. If anyone on this thread had said that God told them their salvation was eternal, I would equally be impressed. What you have is a belief that salvation is eternal. You also have a belief that says that Christianity is the right belief and all things being equal, my belief is just as good as yours. I think that is the point?

 

What makes my belief less important is that you seem to feel that you are over me somehow, which is why your attempting to raise issues with your credentials are better than mine and all that.

 

The only thing that Dallas Theological Seminary can teach people in how to make it in ministry, is how to start a theological seminary. They are an example of what they do as are we all. It is not what you teach that is as important as what you do. If I recall, they don't even believe or accept the five fold gift ministry, which puts them with odds against scripture. I mean they say scripture is true and accurate and all then come up with theological reasons why it is not true.

 

One either accepts scripture in what it says, or one works to come up with reasons why one should not accept scripture.

 

I can tell you personally what is wrong with teachings that come out of what is known as the "great awakening" is that it is based on many American beliefs. It is part of the protestant movement. From what I see is that Evangelicalism does away with the five fold gift ministry. It is all based on the belief that Jesus came to start a new religion called "Christianity." The problem with that is if Jesus came so that all may be grafted into the promise then evangelicalism and its premises may seriously be in error. One of those errors is that salvation may not be eternal if evangelicalism is in error.

 

Love we all agree is a word, but love as a word requires an action, not to just say that "one loves." If one does love, then they will do something to live up to the word love. It is the same with salvation, it requires the user to do something, which is far more than just a belief. Falling away from the faith requires one to go in a different direction. To fall away, but if one is not required to do anything to be saved, then one cannot fall away. It is not possible.

 

So on the one hand we have people on this thread telling me that I have fallen away, but if salvation is eternal, then one cannot fall away? Does that make any sense to anyone out there?

You say on the one hand where you do not get where I am saying that you are attempting to be over me. Well, if you feel or believe that I should do what you want me to do, for example; You want me to accept that your a teacher and that your supposed to teach me. Secondly when you bring up an issue of what Jews did to slaves and I am Supposed to go learn that stuff. Your telling me or trying to tell me what to do and the only way that can happen is if one believes they are better than the other or over the other. That is why I say what I do.

 

Because of your education you believe you are smarter than me at least and so you go out of your way to try to prove you are smarter than me, which is why you bring up all these side issues. Of course you say the same about me, but I am going by Matthew 25:31-46.

 

From what I see is that your going by what you have learned which is an evangelicalism point of view which allows for Christians being over others, which is how Christianity took the land know today as the United States, which because of our founding fathers beliefs in evangelicalism, which allowed them to take the land from the Indians and take all of the resources out of the land and then once stripped of the resources sell the land to people. Now the Indians dumb as they were, understood that one cannot sell something that belonged to the creator. The Indians believed the land belonged to the creator while white settlers felt the land was set aside for Christians to take and even enslave people, because  "Christians" as a whole feel that they are better than others which in part is an "evangelistic" point of view taught in places like Dallas Theological Seminary.

 

Christians believe that they are justified by faith to do whatever they want to do which is why they have the belief that "once saved always saved," fits into their belief system. I mean if you can enslave people and take land from people that you do not own, you can only do so because you believe you are better than others, which the founding fathers believed they were because of the teachings of evangelicalism, which I believe started in England around 1730. Obviously the English Lords felt it was a wonderful teaching so they embarrassed the teaching to control the people. 

 

Well, ....... the folks in America liked that teaching as well, which allowed them to take the land in whatever way they wanted, strip the resources, because Christians believe they have dominion over everything that is not Christian and do so because they are justified by faith to do what they do, because they believe that they are saved eternally no matter what they did.

 

What I have been trying to say is that salvation really is to represent the love and will of God. Christianity teaches that one is saved once in for all no matter what they do, because they are over everyone who is not a Christian. You as a Christian feel you have a right to demand out of me where my degree came from and the reason you want to know that is so you can stand over me and tell me that your degree is better than mine. I say who-ha!

 

I also say that Christians are way out there, because they believe they have a right to start wars and still be saved even though scripture says blessed are the peacemakers as they are the children of God. Now Christians believe they are the children of God no matter what they do. To Christians it is just a thing more or less about getting more or less rewards once in heaven. I have been trying to say that salvation is not only having a heart for God, but having God's heart, which can be accomplished through Jesus.

 

Because of the once saved always saved doctrine, all sorts of things happen.  For example on can do away with the commandments. One can do away with the five fold gift ministry. One can build building and have possessions while people in the streets go hungry. Why? Because Christian believe they are saved no matter what they do. That is how Jim Jones did what he did. He believed once saved always saved also. There are a whole lot of examples of this sort of thinking throughout American history. It is so bad that it is almost a "my stuff don't stink" attitude. Why? Because as a Christian I am justified by grace. 

 

You say you don't want to impress people, but your so blind you can't even see it. Reverend? That is said to impress people. By you having that on your name your saying that you have a title and if one has a title then they are over others, because only a select few can be called a Reverend. This really is a pretty simple concept by you using the descriptive word "Reverend," you

are actually saying you are of the status where you are, "Deserving reverence," according to the dictionary. Yes that is meant to impress people. You can say that is not true, but your the one using the title of "Reverend."

 

Now as far as scripture is concerned about believing and one is saved eternally. Honest I am not stupid I have read that stuff to, but lets try this one on. Satan is the biggest believer there is and I am pretty sure he is not making it.

 

So obviously or it should be obvious that it takes more than "just believing." What I see in those scriptures is the laying down of our lives and will and accepting His life and will through us and I fully agree that if one has done that it is eternal. But I am also saying that just because one calls themselves a Christian does not mean that they have laid their lives down and taken on the life of Christ, because in the once saved always saved doctrine, it doesn't matter what you do or don't do. One has open license to do what they want to do and are calling that salvation.

 

 

The question is this, "What can separate us from the love of God?"  If we allow the scriptures to answer that question, then we have our answer to whether eternal security is biblical or not. Paul addressees this in Romans chapter 8. He gives us a convincing proposition in verse one when he says " Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."  Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior it is impossible for anything to pluck you from this truth. The sealing of the Holy Spirit (Ephes. 1:13) is unbreakable. Who can break the seal of the Holy Spirit? Who can reverse the guarantee of our inheritance(Ephes. 1:14)? Paul answers that question at the end of Romans chapter 8.

 

Romans 8:38-39 (NASB)
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Does the blood of Jesus wash away our future sins? According to Paul yes (nor things to come).                    Can you yourself separate yourself eternally from the love of God? No you cant(nor any other created thing).  You are created right? Creation does not have the power to reverse Gods purpose in the life of the believer.

 So Preacher, you are correct. There's no such-thing as temporary Eternal life..

 

 

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