But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.
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Hello Miss Angela,
You've received many replies, responses, rebutals and reports after launching such a provacative thread. I pray that the information can be sifted and sorted spiritually so that those who are actively involved in ministry might gain tools, techniques and temperment to effect the lives of those who are still living. Our comments and concerns about the destiny of the dearly departed may be well intentioned; but quite frankly, in their behalf it is fruitless and based on some remarks, even foolish. There is a redeeming value because our focus can be better geared and guided to souls who still have the opportunity to be saved from an eternity in hell. Thank you for the posting. It passionately paints a potential picture of the body of Christ.
If we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior; we are in the family of God. There may be some that we would not like to be in there [based on various differencies and difficulties] and yet due to powers beyond our own opinions, they remain. My late father was a pastor and I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters. We all have different careers, we all live in different cities, we all have different hobbies and interests; we all have our own circle of friends and beliefs and yet we are forever connected by our father's blood. Glory to God.
Rest assured, Jesus knows His sheep and His sheep hear His voice. We may not recognized all of His sheep but what we can do is try to reach and teach all that we can while they live and breath. John 10:16 - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
God bless you and your ministry.
I like that...as a matter of fact that will preach !!! Ain't No Mountain High Enough To Keep Me From God would be my subject...That's why it is a personal relationship. If there is no searching God's understanding how is it that so many people seem to know who does or doesn't get to heaven. I ain't never been there and I am willing to give some the benefit of the doubt and others I will have to wait until I get there.
The Word says "AND I, IF I BE LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH I'LL DRAW"...WE ARE JUST LIGHTNING RODS. Though some of the comments in here might says some of us are repellants to people's salvation.
If hell is going to have to enlarge itself then I know that means somebody somewhere ain't going to heaven. Why not work to get people into Heaven and let hell take care of itself.
Hello Min. Traey Marshall yes it is certainly true I have receive many replies to this subject and I pray there will be plenty more fruitful replies. These subjects that I post is for the benefit of all to serve to help us in indidivually developed our personal walk with Christ, to help us in our daily walk and to help us in helping others in their walk. There are a lot of suggestions some that will be of benefit others that will not, therefore it is for each of us in our own time to sift through all the responses pray about it and let the Spirit of God help us to cling on to the ones that will help us to be fruitful.
BY THE WAY I HAVE BEGAN A NEW TOPIC IN PREACHING AND TEACHING THAT YOU MAY CARE TO GIVE YOUR TAKE ON (THE CHARACTERISTIC OF THE DIVINE NATURE IN THE BELIEVER)
Paul said should we go on sinning so that grace may abound, God forbid. When someone backslides, they are going back to a life of sin. If they don't repent of their sins they are going to hell. If not, I can get saved today and in 5 min sin and never repent. I can blaspheme the holy spirit (shich is the unforgivable sin, Jesus' words) and still make it in. We can only repent for sin that is committed, not for sins not committed yet. We have to sin first before we can repent of a sin.
From all of the opinions and perspectives on this question, it is becoming clear that many of us ddo not understand the meaning of being workers of iniquity, we must be careful of our interpretations of the word of God.. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound God forbid.. now we can claim salvation and everything that comes with it.. What is being missed is that we should be washing our robes in the BLOOD, and not the muck and mire anymore.. to continue to believe that sin is o.k., because i am saved, shows that many of us why not being legalist, are not literalist either..
By looking at this thread it is easy to see there are two camps, both trying really hard not to say that there is a line and one should not step over that line, but no one is saying what that line is?
The one camp is called the grace camp and they see it as once saved always saved no matter what you do and the other camp is saying grace is something that should not be abused that it is there for boo boo's (more or less) and that deliberate sin should be avoided at all cost.
So to find which is the right camp, because after all who wants to be in the wrong camp? One needs to look at the fruit of both beliefs to see which is from God?
The fruit of the the camp of once saved always saved will bring up a generation of people that are probably self centered, because after all if one is saved always forever then why do anything for anyone else? Out of that set of beliefs one might see how gangs could survive and the members of gangs shooting up the place and the people are saved no matter what they do. Evangelicals teach once saved always saved, which seems to be the thrust of teaching that it doesn't matter what you do in life as long as when you are a child go forward say the prayer and all is good no matter what you do, you can justify it in the end.
The other camp is more likely to teach that its all about finding the path of God and staying on it because that is what salvation is. It is more likely that this camp will teach the commandments, statutes, ordnances and the covenants because after all the will of God is about a particular path and walking on it, which would also include the importance of thinking about others more than yourself.
The once saved always saved would like to think its about a good education as long as the path comes back to once saved always saved. This would be a path of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil because one can decide for themselves what is good and what is evil. The emphasis in this camp will more than likely see scripture as the word of God instead of Jesus, because after all its about knowing the word.
So is it about the relationship with Jesus or is it about studying to show thyself approved unto God a workman, which means there are likely to be a bunch more Bible studies than looking for solutions of how to fix the problems.
I can also see where the once saved always saved line of thinking would lend itself to the demos way of doing things which is built on the Athenian life or lifestyle, not taking in account the top ten gods of the time were Fates, Atlas, Adonis, Zeus, Ares, Heracles, Cronus, Dionysus, Hades and last but not least Chaos, which seems to be where it all seems to end up. Christianity (or at least evangelicalism) seems to be a mix between those gods and their attributes and the one true God, but with that comes a lack of relationship or the arising of the unknown god and what Paul (Acts 17:22-31) was trying to get at was that God was known to His people. Paul found an alter in Athens to the unknown god.
Now today, not being heathens of course, there are two groups of people, those that see the word as the Bible and to them it is an unknown God, because the Bible cannot take the place of a personal relationship, but we see it invariably all the time, because they would say that discussion should be limited to only what scripture says, not understanding that most of Paul wrote was from revelation knowledge given to him by the Holy Spirit. It would seem at least by observation that those that seem to know God speak from a place of revelation knowledge which goes far beyond what is written in scripture.
What is seen in this forum is a divided camp of which we all should know that division is not of God? So who or what is going to win, those with revelation knowledge or those that can quote scripture back and forth? Both sides seem to be saying they know the truth. There are two laborers in the field, one will be taken away and one will be left. Is it the one that has revelation knowledge because of the personal relationship or is it the one that can quote scripture back and forth? If we understood that question and answer then we would know if "once saved always saved" is a true statement or not.
For me personally because that is all I can do is speak for myself, to me the only way one knows they belong to Jesus is by our love one for the other. I personally find that no one is right except for God and I would rather be wrong in all things and let Him be right in all things.
Eternal Security...I want to know that if I say I am saved and walk upright before him that if I should falter that the GOD of Provision that I serve will not destroy my Mansion in Heaven because of that faltering. If the word says that we all have sinned and come short of His Glory...Did it take this what is some cases was an arguement to conclude that everyone ain't as saved as they thought and those that are saved should know that your eternal security may not be in man's eye as secure as you think.
I wanna believe that after I give my life to Jesus Christ, Acknowledge that I am a sinner and that He died for my sins that I am saved and eternally secure.
Folks gone get to Heaven and be surprised who they see and whom they don't.
Yes and that is a personal belief that you have, however if you are a teacher or preacher you have one of two paths or maybe a third path to go down and take others down with you.
1) Scripture says something specifically
2) Revelation knowledge
3) Cause I want to believe something
The problem comes in when we start teaching or preaching something that is not there or God has not spoken that to us. It is at that point we create new beliefs based on what we want to believe?
I am not sure why, maybe it's a guy thing that either thinks its all one way or the other? Women tend to know we are a work in progress. Your statement deals with an absolute, which is "if I do everything right and screw up once, I am still saved," and then from there the next person chimes in and starts saying "once saved always saved no matter what we do or don't do."
The reason we want to believe things is because deep inside we know we are screw ups. What we do need to do to get back on track is confess our sin and if we do He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin, but we cannot jump over what is required of us, which is to confess our sin. Once saved always saved means, we do not need to confess our sin.
What makes one secure is by coming back and putting our lives back in His hands, but only He knows whether we have really done that or not. Time tells the story whether we really have repented which does come back to not going in the same direction. It is turning back to God's path (which seems to only work if one knows what one is called to do, because that is part of God's path for the person).
The problem is that the message sent is not always the message received and that happens because the heart controls what we see or what we hear. The heart becomes more stony the longer we live. It becomes stony often because we want to believe certain things, so instead of seeking God for an answer our personal beliefs kick in and we start filtering out what we see and hear to the point where we do not even want the truth and will even argue against the truth, which is exactly where Israel was when Jesus arrived the first time around. When Jesus arrived there were thirty some laws on the books and He thought that was a bit much. In Christianity we now have more than 300,000 laws on the books, when it all comes down to love God and love thy neighbor as thyself. If we did those two things, we wouldn't need all the other laws.
The reason we like laws is because we deceive ourselves. We would rather seek the law instead of God and salvation at least would be following God, becoming like Him, but what we like to do is define salvation as a belief of something instead of seeking after God.
So here we go...What does this mean?
Jeremiah 3:14: Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
1. Can we define a backslider for the People
2. If this is in the Bible should it not be reason enough to give people the benefit of the doubt that if you claim him that he determined to "Bring You To Zion".
I'm not saying act any ole kind of way but I said a God of Provision. I have never seen God not give you an alternative. I think he gives us options.
Here we are BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS removing grace and mercy from people because I'm in one part of the book and you in another. It looks like to me that if you repent and are godly sorrowful that God is just to fogiver. There are a few exceptions where you are put out but why do we need GRACE and MERCY if you can come back after you falter.
A GOD OF PROVISION...