But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.
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..Yet ha'Shems Hesed(mercy) is new and renewed each morning which trumps the violation of Yesayahu 58:v9 of finger pointing while a Student seeks out a higher revelation/Radiation of the Creator and the inherent wisdom that cannot be penned down from the Plebeian perspective of Isaiah in that day and age...
You sound well educated and it all SOUNDS good but i am not getting your point.
So much for "I will never leave you, nor forsake you?"
How about the concept that the Holy Spirit works to convict us of our sin, which is after the fact of sin?
Then again if we say we have no sin we make Him a liar and the truth is not in us?
How about the inequities of the righteous, where they think they have no sin and become cold instead of acting out of love? To me a sign of all of that is spouting of a lot of well sounding words like they do not sin, when in truth are loaded with a lack of compassion for others?
Isaiah 59:2 comes from the proud and haughty spirit and going their own way and doing their own thing so to speak, while looking all humble when going to the temple, which comes from a lack of self examination.
If one walks in love, they walk differently. Out of love they do everything they can not to mess up. They come to an understanding that "if I offend anyone, I offend God."
The proud do not seem to understand that the plan of God for a person goes way beyond that one night when they came forward, accepted Christ and then went their own path, when in actuality God's plan extends to all aspects of a persons life in where they work or what they do for a living or even who they marry or where they live.
This whole thread is about the possibility of loosing ones salvation or at least that is what I see out of it. Many in Christianity see salvation as that one time a person was convicted of sin, went forward, accepted Christ and then continued on even while living what most would consider living a Christian life, yet instead of having a heart for God and His ways in caring about the things God cares about, they care more about their 2 1/2 cars or is it 2 1/2 kids, just believing they are ok because they went forward once at the alter call?
There is a certain arrogance that tends to go a long with a lot of God's people because they go to Bible studies, go to church and out of that many go to Bible college and even write a book here and there about the Christian life and then do little or nothing to deal with things like ending starvation or out love helping others as He has helped us.
God's people are only God's people not because they are Jews or Christians or such labels or because the can quote scripture up one side and down the other, but because they represent the love and will of God and that is the most important thing to them, not just once in a while, but every day. We all have a bad hair day here and there. We all go left or right when we should have gone right or left, but one either does everything they can to trust in the Lord with all of their heart or they don't.
Being what scripture would call a wayward person at one time, I don't feel as if I have a right to say who is saved and who is not saved or even who is a sinner or not. I may be real careful on the counsel I might accept, but I know those truly of God love one another and do their best to not criticize others or even tell them they are wrong, but instead go to God and say something to the affect "God please help me out because I really don't know what I am doing," and they don't just do that once or twice, but have a pretty good understanding that there is nothing good in them except for Him and that they were bought with a price and no longer their own and as such they seek God for what to do in everything.
We ask ourselves if we honor God in the Sabbath or does it matter any more? We don't go around accusing others for not honoring the Sabbath, but exhort them to seek God on His feelings about the Sabbath, because after all He is God and I am, well way far less.
Do we all love enough to end starvation or work to end homelessness? Does the good mother do what it takes for her child or come up with reasons why she cannot? When we lead someone to Christ, do we accept them as we would our own children or do we say, not in so many words "well, just go read your Bible and go to church and your ok or maybe worse hand them I nice looking tract calling it all good?
I am going out on a limb here, but I see Isaiah 59:2 is an attitude one way or the other and not just about a "sin," but a pattern of not seeking God for His ways.
Sarah, we sin in thoughts and deeds so while the thought is still in our mind conviction comes, the problem is although we have what we call a guilty feeling that we are about to do wrong we ignore it and do wrong that is choice we make the choice to do wrong. The holy spirit is here to guide and lead us and He is not only going to wait for you to actually do the deed when He can sense it in your thoughts. God knows our thoughts too and conviction already start before we do the deed so any following to the actual act is a choice to be disobedient.
That was mostly for Ramon.
Sister you said:
"...God knows our thoughts too and conviction already start before we do the deed so any following to the actual act is a choice to be disobedient..."
So you DO take back what you said previously that 'disobedience wont separate us from God and hinder our salvation'
Good - now thats settled.
My dear Newview I think you better go back and follow the conversation to the fullest so you don't continue to misunderstand what I stated earlier as I have already clearly explained my position. Now to summarised it briefly but you need to go back to fully understand I have no intention of being disobedience to God so if I am not going to be disobedient to God how then can disobedience separate me. To be disobedient is a choice and I choose not to be disobedient therefore how will it separate me from God.
Let me try and put it this way the devil create many storms around us to distract us from our path, and there is two ways to deal with the storm stop and pay attention to it thus removing your focus from God or ignore the storms around you letting God take care of it so that you can keep your focus. Again which action you take is a choice that one makes and that choice will determine whether or not you are or you get separated
Sarah writes:" God's people are only God's people not because they are Jews or Christians or such labels or because the can quote scripture up one side and down the other, but because they represent the love and will of God and that is the most important thing to them, not just once in a while, but every day.
For those with inquiring minds~:"To be a Jew, is not about color or any other trait. But rather to be part of the house of Israel, and to be part of a quarom, and pray along side of me, as my brother."
The facts is...it has NOTHING to do with the religion based upon Roman theology..Sadly the children were not taught properly'...and their EGOism is run rampant in vivid imaginations and not historical development...cultural achievement.and Rabbinic Halakhah developed over 3800 years and billions of tears.
So I guess you were ah..... planet of the Apes? Did we not all come from Adam and Eve and if not Adam and Eve then surely from Noah? If so we are all brothers and sisters.
Jew meaning people of God or God's people? I mean Israel is either a people or it is a little country. Pretty sure it used to be a people. By the way I am a descendant from the House of Aaron, but the blood of Yeshua is better. It is a choice, our own blood or His.
I so agree.................
Sadly the children were not taught properly'...and their EGOism is run rampant in vivid imaginations and not historical development...cultural achievement.and RabbinicHalakhah developed over 3800 years and billions of tears.
Sarah I think as I believer you cannot be proud of yourself right now. Please reframe from the discussion name calling has no place on a godly discussion
Clearly there is a lack of understanding from Sarah and Shekinahlife as they fail to understand and differentiate between the called and chosen from the elect
60 years of Rabbinic study does not make a lackadaisical man young lady.
The Mitzvot, the Commandments tell you to become a conduit for the Divine manifestation of truth to a sick and dying humanity'..If there is no truth there is no Torah ..and there is no purpose to your existence or humanity in general...In reality you do not exist...because There is only G-d only fear keeps you in bondage to fallacies..