Thank you Sism
Anna on all the information on Tithing. But if you do not mind.I reaaly would like to stick to the subject. Should a Pastor receive a Salary. I know what the Bible says about tithing and I am a tither. But we are talking about what Paul is saying in 1Cor. 9:14
"That the Lord has commanded that those that preach the Gospel should make his living from the Gospel."
And "Elders who do their work well should be paid well,especially those who work hard at both preahing and teaching." 1Tim 5:14
We will dicuss tithing at another time or I will come to your page to comment on it.
Thank you and
This is not to argue the Bible but it is just to get people of God opion on what they believe the Bible says.
How do you measure doing a work well? Are his members full, ready to advance the kingdom of heaven, not suffering for food, or housing, does the ministry address problems in the community is he approachable, effective, does deliverance and wholeness take place, with spiritual, emotional, and physical healing. Does he joyfully visit the sick answer the phone calls, and more.
Most preachers show up on Sunday, perform, flatter, people might get an appointment with him/her, most likely a layperson. Everyone is trying to get a handshake as if he's a rock star of some sorts, but how do you measure work well? I say prison reforms, working to restore our people, the community, and the church as it is fast becoming a mockery. (Money hungry pimps in the pulpit - this blog should have been about how do we help the African American race get back to Christ? How do we save the youth? How do we help the economy as Christians? How do we impact polictics with prayer? How do we truly advance the kingdom of heaven? But, this topic is okay too. Kind of evidence of what's important and the impetus behind a lot of ministries. I wonder what our Daddy thinks about it? hum....)
See the latest road signs? If you don't believe in God, you are not alone. Hear of the latest lawsuits, Private school sued for having a child sing a song with God in it, or school sued for pledge of Alliegence, and more. See the stats on young black males and growing females in prison, the rise of homosexual practices in high school especially among girls, or elementary girls performs oral sex on school bus, or 2 pastor (males) rushed to emergency room when found stuck together in basement of church, and more, a whole lot more on pastors--getting shot, getting caught in the act, beating the wife, shooting the husband, taking (stealing) from death bed victims, it goes on and on. Wonder how they were doing?
I'm looking for the pastors working well, but not at promoting self or rubbing elbows with the big boys. See the latest on how pastors continue to excuse their sexual inappropriate appetites by saying I'm only human? I'm just wondering, I support paying the pastor sincerely. I give my last to my pastor, but he rarely supports me. He rarely listens, he says, yes, sister God knows, I don't bother anymore. I just cut out the middle man and take it Daddy myself. Can we cut the pay for lack of performance (not that I would), or require back pay for none deliverance? I sell insurance and I find that if the client cancels, the advance I received I have to give it back, even though I performed and the client waffled, but hey, the company did not gain.
Be careful with choice of words like work well, paid well, Great is your reward in heaven. Would you prefer God reward or a merit reward based on community recovery, souls truly saved, prison pop decreasing, Christianity taking its rightful place again. Just asking? Curious with what measure or rating system you will use.
It's good to see someone with a more indepth understanding of the tithe as I tried to show earlier in another post. If a man don't work...he don't eat. What I have found is that most times people are full of pride and want someone to cater unto them. Yes, the saints also helped the Apostles with missions and supply but they had other occupations. We as leaders can't depend on the people to totally take care of us...It is our responsibilty to provide for ours. So, bless you sis...keep swiinging that sword out of love...we can only sow it.
I ran across an article years ago called "The Tithe is Abolished" (L.Ray Smith) that was very good. The author is somewhat perceived controversial in many areas however, the document is pretty complete.
Check it out....bless you.
I'd like to read your group. How do I find it? I tithe until I'm certain, and personally hear from God about it. I don't want to give begrudgingly, but often times I have found myself giving my tithes to a family instead of the church and was not condemn by it, b/c the family was in need. I believe in giving to the ministry to support it, and I would not have a problem with the old way, where pastors were provided for, but these pastors gave full-time. They were reachable, not only to members, but to the community. The flock is to be trained to reach the community is this not correct? I attended a church in Memphis, where we knew the financial obligation of the church, which included the pastor's stiphen. It was divided up into 4 Sunday's expectations, and we met it. I liked this. When a family was in need, we all met the need and someone went to pay the debt if needed. The church even had housing for when we ran away, we ran to the church, imagine that, and for people that lost everything and needed to start over. I really want to read your Group.
Prepare for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Put on the full armor of God
Message: To show faith you follow the instructions which are ordinances
1. Offer the sacrifice of repented IHS which is repent= Name your sins to God Almighty privately in prayer in the Name of His Son, Jesus then IHS.
IHS= Immerse(baptism in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost)
Sanctification(free from sin)
2. While in prayer ask God for understanding so you can Sow seed which is:
Sow= to read
Seed= the Word of God Almighty
3. Keep the Commandments and Statues they are the way of living for the righteous. Remember that Ordinances of God Almighty come and they must be done in order to prove that you have true faith. Always know that God says nothing unrighteous. He never mislead His people. If instructions you receive are contrary to His way of living remember never to do them because they are not His.
A word of knowledge: The Name of God Almighty is Yahweh in Hebrew.
wisdom for you:
Sin brings death to your soul
repentance brings life from the dead
light means no sin(repented, IHS)
darkness means sin(unrepented, IHS)
My take on this is, if you are a Pastor, a True Shepherd, then you must make your self available at all times within reason for your sheep. In order for one to do that they would have to be a full time Pastor. In order to be a full time Pastor you must have a reasonable salary to live on which must come from your church in some way.
It seems that many people think the same way I use to think as a kid; if you're doing what God called you to do then He will provide for you. In other words, He will rain money from heaven, but I soon learned that God have no hands but our hands and therefore we should use them to promote Kingdom work; which means TAKE CARE OF YOUR PASTOR! Spirtually by praying for them, Emotionally by sending them on a Sabbatical, Mentally; those things that you are capable of taking care of and praying for, you do those thing. In doing so, you shall be greatly rewarded because God is pleased when you take care of His Prophets.
Thank you Brenda Gale. For your comments people do believe that if God called you than you are to just go to the mail box and there will be a check. But if really search the scriptures. We will find that the people of God cared for the preacher and took care of there needs.
When Jesus sent the disciple he said in Luke 10v4-7
"Carry neither purse, nor script, nor shoes and salute no man by the way. V7 "And in the same house remain eating and drinking such things as they give: for the laborer is worthy of his hire Go not from that house." Jesus is saying the PEOPLE that they are giving the word to are to take care of their needs.
For if they give a pophet a drink of water they shall receive a prophet reward.
I am trying to review all the responses here and reread this text from Luke 10:4 - 7. Please let us know if you actually obey it or teach it in it's original context. We must stop taking the words from Biblical texts and surgically extracting from them the points that we choose to prove our points.
I'd like your response to the following:
When you visit a different city, do you go with another minister as the Lord commanded "two by two"?
Do you obey the Lord's words here in not carrying any money, even without a wallet without any extra clothes?
Do you stay Exclusively in the homes of believers as the Lord directed, rather than staying in a Hotel or motel?
The phrase that the "laborer is worthy of his hire" was applied in vs 7 to the "food and drink" that they were given in the homes where they stayed:
Luke 10: 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Do you heal the sick when you got to different locations, Luke 10:9
In context these verses are best applied to what we might call a traveling evangelist, the Lord does not even discuss a permanent ministry.
To summarize, what the Lord here is discussing here is more like the "traveling evangelist".
He didn't tell them to go get a hotel room and have the believers there put them up. They stayed in private homes.
Note He never told them to "take up a collection". What the "ministers" were provided was what the Lord put on the hearts of the people with whom they stayed.
If you really believe what this verse says, I suggest that you also when you travel to minister in a different location, that you do just what the Lord told these ministers to do- Take no money, no clothes and let the Lord's people house and provide for you as they see fit.
In no way can you take these texts and reinterpret them to prove that a congregation is supposed to financially support a pastor and his wife and children in a separate domicile.
Sis Anna your references are correct....however.....I've never seen anything about women Pastoring...and yet it seems to be the thing nowadays...so are we "interposing"standards to fit the time and Church age that we live in......because out of all your references,you cannot discount the "First Law of Mention"when it comes to Scripture,and a lot of different interpretations have errored even in translation,and transliteration,persuming that you know that some of these new Bibles have "removed"whole sections of original texts.The reason I know that is true,because I read.....not "looked"at...Read....6 different translations of the Bible,from the Syriac to the NIV.
Ultimately God is the source of all our supply. God may work through tithes, people, boards, jobs, gifts, etc to offer what is needed. So if you are doing what you are truly called to do, God will always provide for your needs. That said, if you are doing xyz amount of work, administration, management, counseling, officiating, etc. and it takes up a dominant amount of time., and the church is drawing income from those activities directly or indirectly, you are entitled to your share of what you have contributed. That is fair and balanced. As far as I am concerned you can draw tithes from preaching and income from the other skills it takes to keep the church going.
I had a long article to post in response to your question, so I posted it in a separate blog, entitled:
Should Pastors Be Salaried? A Closer Look At A Popular Tradition
It documents from the Bible as well as well known and respected Christian theologians, that the full time pastor is not a Biblical position, and that there is no need for a salaried pastor, if the church government via a the plurality of Eldersextant in the first century were adopted again. Each elder continued to keep their regular jobs, as most who serve in the church to today anyway without desiring any type of monetary compensation. This confirms my previous statement that today's single pastor system stems directly from the Roman Catholic Church from which most of not all churches have their roots.
Remember the disciples were sent out two by two, (not as single entities) in the example you gave when they were not to take anything with them. Luke 9:1-6. Also Jesus never commanded them to ask for a tithe or to take up any type of collection. Their support was therefore on free will offerings.