Should a Pastor, Pastor a Church for free

[Pastor Lorenzo Edwards]

Should a pastor that spends most of his time preaching and teaching get paid for what God has him to do? I know what the scriptures says about this, but would you pastor for free?

[ReAsOn DiSciPLe]

I'm am personally against any body paying me for GOD'S FREE SERVICES, because Jesus says if someone asks you to go ONE MILE you should go TWO MILES. So I am going the second mile and do not receive payment as Paul and the APOSTLES did. But a PASTOR is not and APOSTLE. And what did the APOSTLES COMMAND concerning taking care of PASTOR?

Paul says:

"Let the ELDERS [all of God's leaders in the church are ELDERS but not all elders are APOSTLES] that THAT RULE WELL BE COUNTED WORTHY OF DOUBLE HONOR [Greek: 'two fold more money paid'], ESPECIALLY THEY WHO LABOR IN THE WORD AND DOCTRINE." (1st Timothy 5:17).

Do you see what the Greek word means? "Two-fold more MONEY PAID"! Only those who were doing a good job. Those who are benefiting you. This is a COMMAND by Paul. The Apostles view themselves as fathers and said they (the Apostles as fathers) should support the children (the church). The children (the church) should not have to save up for the father (the apostles).

But Paul also said in 1st Corinthians 9 that they had every right to demand payment. But ... BUT those apostles who had families where to be paid. Those apostles who had no wives or children DID NOT TAKE A PAYCHECK. And when they did take money if was for the purposes for helping out other churches who were lest fortunate. Listen to these scriptures:

"Now concerning the collections [Gk: '(in the commercial sense). A contribution (donation, gift, giving, involvement, role):--collection, gathering'] FOR THE SAINTS, as I have given order [Gk: 'To arrange thoroughly, i.e. (specifically) institute, prescribe, etc:--appoint, command, give, (set in) order, ordain'] to the churches of Galatia, even SO DO ALL OF YOU. Upon the first day of the week [Sunday, not Saturday the Sabbath. Money transactions were not to be carried out on the Sabbath under the Old Covenant but the principle was carried out under the NEW COVENANT] let every one of you lay by him in store [Gk: 'To amass or reserve (literally or figuratively):--lay up (treasure), (keep) in store, (heap) treasure (together, up)'], AS GOD HAS PROSPERED [Gk: 'To help on the road, i.e. (passive) succeed in reaching; figuratively to succeed in business affairs:--prosper, have a prosperous journey'] HIM, that there be no gatherings [Gk: '(in the commercial sense). A contribution (donation, gift, giving, involvement, role):--collection, gathering'] when I come [Come on the Sabbaths, or Saturday. Remember Paul '... AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ (the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD).' (Acts 17:2)]." (1st Corinthians 16:1-2).

"Now ye [all of you] Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, NO CHURCH [not Ephesus, not Rome, not Corinth, not Thessalonia, not Galatia, not Thyatira, not Philadelphia, not Colosse, not Antioch, not Jerusalem, not Macedonia, not Greece, not Smyrna, not Pergamos, not Sardis, not Laodicea. not Samaria, not Damascus, not Lydda, not Judea, not Athens, or any other church] communicated [Gk: 'distributed, shared'] with me as concerning GIVING and RECEIVING, but ye only. For even in Thessalonica ye sent [financial aid] ONCE and AGAIN unto my necessity. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire FRUIT [their financial giving was FRUIT] that may abound to your account. But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things [offerings and other items] which were sent from you, [their MONEY was not only FRUIT, it was ...] AN ODOR OF A SWEET SMELL, A SACRIFICE ACCEPTABLE, WELLPLEASING TO GOD. But my God shall supply all your need according to His RICHES [Gk: 'Wealth (as fullness), i.e. (literally) MONEY, possessions, or (figuratively) abundance, richness, (specifically) valuable bestowment:--riches'] in glory by Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:15-19).

"For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain CONTRIBUTION [Gk: 'partnership, i.e. (literal) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary {FINANCIAL, fiscal, economic}) benefaction (SUPPORT, patronage, investment, backing, sponsorship, AID):--(to) communicate, communication, communion, distribution, contribution, fellowship'] FOR THE POOR SAINTS [Jewish Christians] which are at Jerusalem. It has pleased them TRUTHFULLY; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles [Christians] have been made partakers [Gk: 'To share with others (objectively or subjectively):--communicate, distribute, be partaker'] of their spiritual things [spiritual wealth], their duty is also to ministeR [Gk: 'To be a public servant, i.e. (by analogy) to perform religious or charitable functions (worship, obey, relieve):--minister'] unto them in carnal things [material wealth]. When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this FRUIT." (Romans 15:26-29). All emphasis, underlines, caps, mine!

Do you see it brothers and sisters. If we all get back to the root of what these words ment back in the age they wrote it, we would all see the truth.

By the way, the idea of an "inerrant" or flawless translation is not even possible. It just isn’t possible to translate one language into another language PERFECTLY. It cannot humanly be done! There are many words, idioms, and colloquial sayings in many languages that simply HAVE NO EXACT EQUIVALENT in other languages. But that’s okay. It is possible to understand God’s Word even with these difficulties, differences, and imperfect translations. That is because the real understanding is in the SPIRIT and not in the LETTER. Certainly God uses both, but the emphasis is on the former and not the latter.
The strange languages we find on earth today are the inventions of God Himself. Yes, they are. God confounded the languages of mankind at the Tower of Babel. He really did a number on the Chinese, didn’t He?
God knows that understanding His Word is not a casual task that can be accomplished without great effort. Paul told Timothy to "STUDY," rather than just casually read the Scriptures. Even with the aid of God Spirit, we must study, God does not miraculously cause His saints to memorize and understand all Scripture.
When I was young and ignorant (okay, more ignorant than I am now), I wondered why so many translations. Why not just one perfect one? Why don’t those who understand Hebrew and Greek just get together and whatever the word in Hebrew is, translate it into an English word that means the same thing, and we will have a perfect translation with no errors? There is no such thing, my friend. There is no such thing as a "perfect" word for word translation from one language to another. If you doubt my statement, just ask a few experts, and they will enlighten you.
Every nation and every culture has its own ways and customs. Add to this problem, the fact that the languages of Scripture were dead for centuries and had to be rediscovered. Add to this, customs that no longer exist. Add to this, words that have gone out of use, etc., etc., etc, and you will see the colossal task of translating 3500 year old Hebrew into modern English or 2000 year old Greek into English.

[ReAsOn DiSciPLe]

I believe we need to beware of those who claim to know God’s Spiritual Truths, but know preciously little about God’s Word, the Scriptures. God’s Spirit never contradicts His Word, but the Church’s teaching contradicts God’s Word in hundreds of places.

God has hid these mysteries from the world and even from the Church, I am sad to say. Not that I am the only one to begin understanding these things. There have always been some in every generation that God gave this understanding to. And there are now people scattered around the world that understand these deep mysteries of God and His prophecies for the future, but they are relatively few in number.

[YaaKov and Hadassah Terry]

Disciple (talmidim) stated "There have always been some in every generation that God gave this understanding to.

---

Very Tov(good) perception and... Some info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamed_Vav_Tzadikim
Segments of Judaism believe that there is the Jewish tradition of 36 righteous people whose role in life is to justify the purpose of mankind in the eyes of God. Tradition holds that their identities are unknown to each other and that, if one of them comes to a realization of his true purpose then he may die and his role is immediately assumed by another person:
The Lamed-Vav Tzaddikim are also called the Nistarim ("concealed ones"). For those who enter the shekinah ~Life get the prize so to speak it all comes from being set-apart in meditative study with the Torah /word of YHVH and the Prophets Tanya then writings of Rambam the Writings of Miramonides and the like every commentary, or even Mystical working of G-d in and through you as a set-apart servant.

Rabbi Hillel (Yeshua's Rebbe) The Life and teachings of Hillel by: Aronson ///Akiba 'Scholar saint martyr"..and the Pirkei Avos the ethics of the Fathers bring great depth to your Biblical understanding ~~
http://www.shechem.org/torah/avot.html
Pirkei Avos Ethics of the fathers (online)

~ It is time for us all to grow up to the Full Stature and stop the fooling around we are losing ground not gaining Look at the once great nation AmeriKa eroding because of false hope,...poor Socialist education programming, Smoke and mirrors tyranny and Bio-chemical holocausts going on to suit Agenda21[ the UN Treaty bush Sr. Signed] and we are the victims Because we lost the greater connection with the father and instead followed institutional concepts of religion.

We need to stop being victims and become the Mature Men of G-d that Yeshua and friends were trying to get to happen to see that they were already Son's of G-d as Israel and that by study and avodah greater things/deeds shall you do.
A Baal Teshuvah movement was what it was,.. Repent and Return to G-d"...Did we listen and do as he taught No! Yeshua was teaching what his teacher Rabbi Hillel taught and His teachers before him...
We need to review the original scrolls and writings get back to the linguistic and historical walk your Rabbi taught,... separate from what Paul taught,... and Walk the Walk Mar Yeshua ben Yoseph' taught first and foremost,... if that is your preference.
IMHO I prefer Judaism as it is a religion that is not a religion as more-so it is a relationship as Son of the Divine Master,... A Spark from the sun [if you will allow] that has a mission to warm the earth" to go out and Repair the world [Tikkun Olam]. No superficial wanderings of the heart just clarity of purpose at the core.

Religion is like that in some groups they want you in line and soon if we all do not wake up like Dr.Ron Paul suggests we will be homeless on the streets if we keep following foolish wanna be leaders

Friends and readers it all starts with the children of G-d learning the Torah till it is One with you...then becoming Son's of G-d Why because Study is a given in Judaism. In Christian understanding It simply is Study to show thy-SELF Approved" to who UNTO G-D ...They did not have a New testament So they studied what,,,,Torah and the received traditions commonly known as qaballah and the more recent renditions of psychology of the Soul known as Tanya... So enjoy the Rich journey this new awakening this Paradigm shift is bringing forth...

Shalom Aleichem

[ReAsOn DiSciPLe]

I have no problem with the Torah (which is what Christians call the Old Testament, right?). I don't mean to offend if I am off on knowing that. But MOST of the Christians don't KNOW that the Torah is GREATLY needed to understand what Yeshua and His 'sent ones' taught. For it was the ONLY thing written at the time.

I think most of readers realize that Jesus did not speak Archaic King James English. And most also realize that the King James Bible is not the one that the Apostles used. There were no "bibles" during Christ’s ministry; there were only the Hebrew Scriptures, and a popular Greek translation of those Hebrew Scriptures called the Septuagint. What we call the New Testament was not even written until near the end of the first century, and was not put into book form until much later, and was not printed until many centuries later.

At Jesus’ last meeting after His resurrection with His apostles we read:

"And He said unto them, These are the [spiritual] words which I spoke unto you while I was yet [still] with you [words which they never understood] that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me [in other words, the entire Hebrew Scriptures we call the Old Testament for it was the only thing written at that time] ['IF THEY HEAR NOT Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one (Jesus) rose from the dead.' (Luke 16:31)]. ['But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament (Moses and all the Prophets); which VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST. But even unto this day, when Moses (the Old Testament) is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it (the heart) shall TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.' (2 Cor. 3:14-16)] Then [When? ‘THEN.’ Not during their three and one half years of learning at His feet? NO, ‘then’] opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures [ALL of the Scriptures]" (Luke 24:44-45).

JESUS PREFIGURES ALL AND FULFILLED ALL

"Inasmuch as ye [all of you] have done it unto one of the least of these My [Jesus'] BRETHREN, ye [all of you] have done it unto ME [JESUS] … Inasmuch as ye [all of you] did it not to one of the least of these [My brethren], ye [all of you] did it not to ME [Jesus]" (Matt. 25:40b & 45b).

"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets ['IF THEY HEAR NOT Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one (Jesus) rose from the dead.' (Luke 16:31)], ['But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament (Moses and all the Prophets); which VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST. But even unto this day, when Moses (the Old Testament) is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it (the heart) shall TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.' (2 Cor. 3:14-16)] He [Jesus] expounded [defined, explained] unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning HIMSELF." (Luke 24:27).

"Think not that I [Jesus] am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I [Jesus] am not come to destroy, but to FULFILL" (Matt. 5:17).

"I [Jesus] was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye [all of you] took Me not: but the Scriptures MUST BE FULFILLED" (Mark 14:49).

"After this, Jesus knowing that ALL THINGS were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be FULFILLED, said, I thirst" (John 19:28).

"Therefore we are buried with Him [Jesus] by baptism into DEATH: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE also should walk in newness of life… I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ LIVES IN ME: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Rom. 6:4 & Gal. 2:20).

"Remember the word that I [Jesus] said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted Me [Jesus], they will persecute you; if they have kept My [Jesus'] saying, they will keep yours also… Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He [Jesus] IS, SO ARE WE IN THE WORLD…" (John 15:20 & 1st John 4:17).

"The disciple is not above his Master, nor the servant above his Lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be AS his Master, and the servant AS his Lord. If they have called the Master [Jesus] of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of His [Jesus'] household?" (Matthew 10:24-25).

Contained in these few Scriptures is the reason why the Church has not a clue as to what the plan and purpose of God is, or how the Scriptures are applied to the working out of that purpose. How did Jesus "fulfill" the Scriptures? By fulfilling the 44 Scriptures listed in the back of Strong’s Concordance concerning the coming Messiah? Forty-four Scriptures only? Those 44 Scriptures are truly, not even the tip of the iceberg.

What Christ did could not be put into books—the whole [kosmos] could not contain it.

"And there are also MANY other things which Jesus did, the which, if they [THE MANY OTHER THINGS JESUS DID] should be written EVERY ONE, I suppose that even the world [kosmos] itself COULD NOT CONTAIN THE BOOKS that should be written. Amen." (John 21:25).

Jesus did not fulfill the sacrificed sin offering only. Jesus was not merely one offering, but the many offerings, burnt offerings, the meat offering, the peace offerings, the trespass offering, and the sin offering. Jesus also prefigured the priest doing the offering, the meaning of each offering, the compartments and furniture of the tabernacle, the bread, the candles, the curtain, the ark of the covenant, the tabernacle itself, Jesus was Joseph, Adam, Moses, Joshua, King David, and the whole nation of Israel—Jesus prefigures all and FULFILLED ALL.

No one could comprehend every verse in the Old Testament Scriptures that represented Jesus, but they could learn the PRINCIPLE by which Jesus fulfilled all the law and all the prophets. And that is how the apostles and the two disciples on the road to Emmaus had their understanding of the Scriptures opened in just a very short time. When the Scriptures speak of Israel they speak of Jesus, and when they speak of Jesus they speak of us, for "…as Jesus is, so are we in the world" (1st John 4:17).

And that is the simple explanation of this marvelous truth. The Scriptures speak of far more than just the prophesies of Jesus coming as the Messiah.

We are all in Adam. We do all that Adam did. We believe in the Spirit what Israel lived in the flesh. All Israel was baptized in the Red Sea. We are all baptized into Christ’s death. And now the last Adam (Christ) lives His life in us (Gal. 2:20), but not until we repent of the first Adam of the flesh living his life in us.

"Then opened He their UNDERSTANDING, that they might UNDERSTAND the Scriptures" (Luke 24:45);

"Consider what I say: and the Lord give you UNDERSTANDING in all things" (2 Tim. 2:7).

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an UNDERSTANDING, that we may know Him that is True…" (1st John 5:20).

"And you shall know [Gk: ‘sure understanding’—but future] the truth, and the truth shall make [future] you free" (John 8:32).

For three and one-half years Jesus promised that some day His apostles would know the truth. But clear to the end of three and one-half years of learning at the feet of Jesus, the Apostles did not yet understand His teaching, purpose or plan. Has anything changes on how Jesus trains His disciples today? One day they were blind to these truths, and the next they understood. How is that possible?

We have clearly seen that Jesus kept the real meaning and truths of His teaching from the masses, the church leaders, His disciples and even His apostles. Late in Christ’s ministry, we are told that:

"And they understood NONE OF THESE THINGS: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the THINGS WHICH WERE SPOKEN" (Luke 18:34).

But after His resurrection, Luke tells us that:

"THEN opened He their understanding, that they might understand THE SCRIPTURES [ALL THE SCRIPTURES]." (Luke 24:45).

Maybe, TODAY, will be the day that God begins to "open your understanding of the Scriptures."

Jesus said to His disciples:

"… ALL THINGS must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets, and in the Psalms, CONCERNING ME ['IF THEY HEAR NOT Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one (Jesus) rose from the dead.' (Luke 16:31)]. ['But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament (Moses and all the Prophets); which VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST. But even unto this day, when Moses (the Old Testament) is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it (the heart) shall TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.' (2 Cor. 3:14-16)] Then opened He their understanding…" (Luke 24:44-45).

In the first section, the Law of Moses, Strong’s Concordance gives four entries of things Jesus fulfilled from these five books:

"…her Seed" (Gen. 3:15);

"In you [Abraham] all the families of the earth shall be blessed" (Gen. 12:3);

"…with him [Isaac] for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him" (Gen. 17:19);

"…a Star shall come out of Jacob; a Scepter shall rise out of Israel…" (Num. 24:17). And that’s it.

Why they don’t even mention the fact that there was to come a Prophet like unto Moses:

"The Lord thy God will raise up unto you a Prophet from the midst of you, of your brethren, like unto me [Moses] unto Him ye shall hearken" (Deut. 18:15 & Acts 7:37).

If they missed that one, just imagine how many of hundreds of smaller prophecies regarding Christ they missed.

Understand that what is recorded for us in the gospels is but a very tiny portion of what actually was taught and happened in Christ’s life and ministry:

"And with MANY such parables spoke He the word unto them…" (Mark 4:33; Matt. 13:3; Mark 4:2).

"And MANY other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciple, which are not written in this book" (John 20:30).

"And there were also MANY other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written everyone, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen" (John 21:25).

It wasn’t that Jesus was "holding back" on His disciples, so that they didn’t quite "get it," but rather they just didn’t have the spiritual mind to "get it," until Jesus gave them His very Own mind in the form of His Holy Spirit. Notice Jesus’ words:

"But take heed, behold, I have foretold you ALL things" (Mark 13:23).

Yes, Jesus told them "ALL things," but, "they understood NONE OF THESE THINGS" (Luke 18:34)!

Surely the question will arise: If at the end of Christ’s ministry, "they understood none of these things…," of what value were those three and one half years that Jesus taught them? This is true that they did not understand Christ’s gospel and message during His ministry, and during this mentoring, but it was not for naught (nothing).

Three things were to happen:

[1] "But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, you will REMEMBER that I told you of them" (John 16:4).

This is how the gospel accounts could be written 30-40 years later, because God caused them to "remember" all these things. Remember how we taught in the "Lake of Fire" series (Which we'll start after these 12 truths are explained), that in Revelation 1:10 & 12 John, "…heard behind" him, a trumpet, and he "turned to see…" And that is how we come to understand many things in the spirit. It is only when we turn and look behind us that we see what we didn’t see while it was actually taking place.

"These things understood NOT His disciples at that time: but when Jesus was glorified, then REMEMBERED they that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things unto Him" (John 12:16).

"Then REMEMBERED I the word of the Lord, how that He said…" (Acts 11:16).

[2] "And He said unto them, These are the words which I spoke unto you, while I was yet with you… Then opened He their understanding, that they might UNDERSTAND the Scriptures" (Luke 24:44-45).

[3] After three and one half years of personal tutoring and training of His disciples, Jesus told them at the last supper, "I have yet MANY THINGS to say unto you, but ye cannot hear them NOW" (John 16:12).

And so the disciples understood many things
[1] after they came to pass,
[2] again when Jesus opened their understanding, and
[3] many more things as they progressed and grew in their faith and ministry.

Peter learned to not call the Gentiles common or unclean. He preached to them the gospel, and they received God’s Holy Spirit (Acts 10). Paul learned the truth about being baptized by God’s Spirit rather than by water (Acts 19:1-7). The whole Church learned that Circumcision and the Law of Moses was not required for salvation at the Acts 15 Jerusalem Conference. And many more such things.

How many theologians believe and understand that all the parables are the same parable? Tis true:
"And He [Jesus] said unto them, Know you not this parable? And how then shall you know all parables? (Mark 4:13).
All parables are the same parable. I know: it boggles the mind. It takes the Spirit of God to understand these spiritual teachings.
And just as when Jesus said: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," no one understands what He meant until it was fulfilled. Everyone thought he meant the literal physical stone temple rather than His own body.
Likewise, only the "Chosen few" can understand the parables as they are fulfilled in their own lives, generation by generation, until the parables are fulfilled.

But primarily in this Truth, we are dealing with Christ’s opening of their understanding of the Scriptures after His resurrection.

Before Jesus opened their understanding of the Scriptures on the evening of His resurrection, no New Testament writer could have quoted Scriptures from the Old Testament and applied them to Christ as we find in our Bibles today. And why is that?

Because many times the Scriptures that they quote in reference to Jesus Christ are taken completely out of their context, where they did not have reference to Jesus at all.

Notice Matt. 1:23,

"Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel."

Now go back to Isaiah 7:14 and you will see that this verse has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, IF we insist that it be IN CONTEXT. But when you take it out of context THEN it can be applied to Christ.

In Acts 1:20 we see Peter putting into practice the "Scriptural understanding" that Jesus gave him the evening of His resurrection. Let’s notice what Peter says:

"For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let His habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishopric let another take."

Peter took half his statement from Psalm 69:25, but changed the word "their" to "his," and the other half of his statement is from Psalm 109:8, and neither Psalm appears to have anything to do with selecting a new Apostle to replace Judas IN CONTEXT. Only if you take it OUT OF CONTEXT CAN IT BE APPLIED PROPERLY! What is going on?

"Then opened He [Jesus] their [the eleven Apostles] understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures" (Luke 24:45).

But what was it about the Scriptures that caused them to understand the Scriptures? Just what did Jesus teach them that they didn’t already know? Back up a few verses for the answer.

Earlier that same day Jesus met with two of His disciples on the road to Emmaus. For the next seven miles Jesus explained to them the Scriptures.

What did He teach them that in a few hours they were able to understand the Scriptures?

"Then He said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded [declared, defined, explained] unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning HIMSELF" (Luke 24:25-27).

Are we to believe that in a few hours Jesus read to them the entire 39 books, 929 chapters, 23,145 verses of the Old Testament, with commentary and explanations? No, of course not. He taught them a principle, a spiritual truth, whereby they could understand all the Scriptures that pertained to Him.

The spiritual resurrected Jesus Christ does not represent the physical house of David, or the physical Tribe of Judah, or the physical nation of Israel. Jesus Christ is Spirit and His words are spirit. "As Jesus is, so are we" means that those who are spiritual (composed of almost exclusively Gentiles in this Church era) are the true Jews—not national Israel and Judah. National Israel and Judah are going into the Great White Throne of Judgment in the second resurrection during the period of the Lake of Fire. They will NOT be grafted into Jesus, the Tree of Life, before then. Jesus fulfilled all that is written in the Law of Moses and all the prophets—it ALL pertains to Jesus, and thus it all pertains to us (‘upon whom the ends of the ages are come,’ 1 Corinthians 10:11).

[YaaKov and Hadassah Terry]

Mr Talmidim writes ~~~A lot and much and off topic slightlyLOL

---

Really I love to help sort out of the quagmire...However first we need a foundation..right? This is the foundation: G-d is!!
There is nothing but G-d!!
G-d is in everything not that G-d is everything but that G-d is in everything...
That G-d is!!
There is nothing but G-d !
In the begining G-d Before the Begining G-d before the milta,before the manifestation of any thing we see and touch..the plan and G-d and then being the king of kings of kings that HaShem is,... G-d knew we needed instructions for a good life and so I submit~Torah was before the beginning.
There is nothing but G-d"
G-d is within us
The Kingdom of G-d is within you'
You can't stop thinking about G-d
G-d is in everything you see... as in~ "I turned to SEE the voice" ( Yochannon/ book of Revealing)...When that is within you internally realized"~ when you realize that G-d is your source for everything~ Then we can continue
There is nothing but G-d,... G-d is your lifebreath~~~ God is your consuming fire You are just a spark waiting to ignite
But first the washing:::
B"Ha'shem
Some books of interest Here

[ReAsOn DiSciPLe]

I agree, Amen! And yea, I guess you can say we are totally off the topic! LOL!

But it's good breaking the BREAD OF LIFE, THE HIDDEN MANNA WITH YOU!

:-)

ReAsOn DiSciPLe

[Evangelist Martha Robbins]

I would not expect a salary but an offering is certainly in order.

[Dr. Simeon O. Agbolabori]

The Bible teaches that a laborer is worthy of his wages, in the light of this a pastor is supposed to be compensated for his labor. But this should be done with some element of prudence there are those founding pastors like me who can depend on God to supply their needs but this is not recommended in all situation. The income of the church should be kept in mind before a pastor demand for certain amount as pay. If the church pays their pastor, they are opening God's blessing upon them. The anointing respected, honored and treasured is the one that would bless you.
Dr. Simeon Agbolabori

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Why should there be an offerings since Jesus nailed all the laws to the Cross?

[YaaKov and Hadassah Terry]

Mr Israel writes :"Why should there be an offerings since J-sus nailed all the laws to the Cross?"

---

Personally I see no letter nor rulling to establish that statement...Arrogant and without substance,... In fact it refutes the mans own teachings which would have met Hallakah then..That he did not come to abolish the instructions ~~Given to Moshie at Sinai the Marital place for the bride Yisrael....but to walk them out ...Mattisyahu 5 V17ff

It is all about the Marriage folks, all about respect from one to another...

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Most believe that Jesus nailed all the laws to the cross because they say we don't have to keep the commandments, Feasts, Dietary law, or cleanliness laws. They believe that the Lord did away with more than the animal sacrifice law, and the Levitical Priest hood. So. I asked, If Jesus nailed all the laws to the cross, why must we tithe?

[YaaKov and Hadassah Terry]

Mr Israel writes:"Most believe that J-sus nailed all the laws to the cross because they say we don't have to keep the commandments, Feasts, Dietary law, or cleanliness laws.

---

My My ...And they wonder why they are Sick and diseased eating from the kings table of this worlds goods~

---

IF they 'say~~~is a big IF"...SO; I submit historical evidence and the Bath Khol, the heavenly voice for the ruling according to Chasidic and Rabbinic interpolations of the time that was all written.....way before Rome started their version would take president. That would exclude any misconstruction or even fact from the Brit Chadassah or NT bible written for the Goyim because it didn't exist~ Right?


The term Nailed to the cross' is it not more of a teaching of self-nolification..if so I submit nothing was nailed to the killing stake..What needs to be nailed is our inherent need for ego-stimulation and an endless search for truth white washed from what was the original intent...plain and simple Judaism which in a nutshell~To do a Mitzvah ( a command) is to bring Moshiac that much sooner the reverse is as well true.

(He) HaShem wants us all nailed to the cross ( to use the term) Nailed to the marital Covenant at Sinai..No questions.! ( None should perish all should come to Teshuvah)

To ask your mate to violate your trust, your fidelity for even a moment is nonsense, To pervert that Decree of Marriage to the Set-apart Jewish nation [and the Gentiles that were part of the exodus] from Hashem and look for carnal substance ( eg: tithing arguments) to be a contention is ludicrous IMHO.
Tzedakah is a lifestyle of giving Not to an institution but to those in need in the community as the Master directs you too.

I wrote about years ago in the E-book'The Cork in the Bottle" found free here on our profile page