Should Pastor's Allow non-Tither's to Function in Leadership?

[Minister Robbin Swinger Otey]

Many pastor's have a mandate that if you don't pay tithes they will not allow you to function in leadership regardless of any so-called calling or so-called anointing on your life.

Flip side is, some of these same pastors have novice's in leadership based on the size of their bank account and their ability to give financially into the ministry

What does GOD's Word say about this?

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

Oh oh!

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Brother, we are to follow our leaders as they follow Christ. When anybody,be it pastor, mentor, hero or shero, suggest to us to compromise our souls, the answer is no!

Tithing is a good thing of God that molds money mangagement skills, I personally don't feel it is required today in Christ however it's an issue that does not affect my souls condition. In fact it's a blessing, I'm blessed to give that tithe and more.

Being in a leadership positions, those young in Christ watch us. Obedience is better than sacrifice and a trait our youth need to see in us.

Especially young men

[Lester Demings Jr]

"Tithing is a good thing of God that molds money mangagement skills, I personally don't feel it is required today in Christ however it's an issue that does not affect my souls condition. In fact it's a blessing, I'm blessed to give that tithe and more."

I agree with your statement here.
It makes it no matter whether it is right or wrong what matters is that you are being obedient to your leadership. It doesn't matter to do all the "offerings" and your heart is filled with arrogance, pride and puffed up.
Last I checked paying tithes is not going to send you to hell but when you are willingly being disobedient to your leader that is where the issue is.
I work at a company now that allows me to wear my iPod while I am working.
The last company I worked for did not.
Now, the company that did not allow me to wear my iPod while I was working did not I have the option to leave and find me another job?
Yes, but while I am there at THAT company I am to follow the rules and regulations that have been in place since before I got there.
Paul said that if you want to eat meat- eat it.
He then said if you don't want to eat it- don't eat it.
The issue is we got too many people who want to tell YOU what to do and want to label you unsaved, or negatively just because you won't obey them.
We are to obey the Word- not man and if I choose NOT to pay tithes then I have that choice but if I am i a church that believes in paying tithes and not paying them then I am willingly being disobedient and it will be counted to me as sin.
Plain and simple.

[Anna]

Shabbat Shalom all:

I have a group dedicated to discussing the tithe, according to the Bible. I will gladly present some of the same information here.
Let's start with the Biblical regulation on the tithe which is directly from YHWH. We should not be adding to nor taking away from His word, so let's search the scriptures like the Bereans, and let the Bible aswer these questions:

1) From what "increase" was the tithe to be taken?
2) To whom the tithe was to be given? Who qualified to take/accept a tithe?
3) Where was the tithe to be taken, (the Storehouse) and eaten?

Reference: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

"In the Pentateuch we find legislation as to tithes in three places.

(1) According to Leviticus 27:30-33, a tithe had to be given of the seed of the land, i.e. of the crops, of the fruit of the tree, e.g. oil and wine, and of the herd or the flock (compare Deuteronomy 14:22-23; 2 Chronicles 31:5-6). As the herds and flocks passed out to pasture they were counted (compare Jeremiah 33:13; Ezekiel 20:37), and every 10th animal that came out was reckoned holy to the Lord. The owner was not allowed to search among them to find whether they were bad or good, nor could he change any of them; if he did, both the one chosen and the one for which it was changed were holy. Tithes of the herds and flocks could not be redeemed for money, but tithes of the seed of the land and of fruit could be, but a 5th part of the value of the tithe had to be added.

(2) In Numbers 18:21-32 it is laid down that the tithe must be paid to the Levites. (It should be noted that according to Hebrews 7:5, 'they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood .... take tithes of the people.'

In Deuteronomy 14:22-29 it is laid down that if the way was too long to carry the tithe to Jerusalem it could be exchanged for money, and the money taken there instead, where it was to be spent in anything the owner chose; and whatever was bought was to be eaten by him and his household and the Levites at Jerusalem. In the third year the tithe was to be reserved and eaten at home by the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless and the widow. In Deuteronomy 26:12-15 it is laid down that in the 3rd year, after this feast had been given, the landowner should go up himself before the Lord his God, i.e. to Jerusalem, and ask God's blessing on his deed..."

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Here are other Encyclopedic References regarding the history of Tithing as understood and practiced in the NT church:

The Encyclopedia Americana (s.v. "tithe"):

"It (tithing) was not practised in the early Christian church but gradually became common (in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of Tours in 567 and the 2nd Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century... The Reformation did not abolish tithing and the practice was continued in the Roman Catholic church and in Protestant countries (until it was) gradually replaced by other forms of taxation. The Roman Catholic church still prescribes tithes in countries where they are sanctioned by law, and some Protestant bodies consider tithes obligatory."

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Catholic Encyclopedia of 1912 p. 259 (s.v. “tithe”):

In the beginning [provision] was supplied by the spontaneous support of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of the conscience. The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the Canons of the Council of Macon in 585.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia (s.v. “tithe”):
The early Church had no tithing system ... it was not that no need of supporting the Church existed or was recognized, but rather that other means appeared to suffice.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia (p.12):

"In the Deuteromic code the tithe is limited to grain. wine and oil (Deu. 12:6, 11, 17; 14:22). These texts more or less equate the tithe with other ritual offerings and sacrifices." [223] "No law of tithing is found in the New Testament, although the principle of church support is laid down in Matt. 10:10 (see also Luke 10:7) and echoed in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14."

The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia (re: tithing history):
In the Christian Church, as those who serve the altar should live by the altar (1 Cor., ix, 13), provision of some kind had necessarily to be made for the sacred ministers. In the beginning this was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful.

[Please note that according to Catholic sources based on historical documentation, the saints including any leadership were supported solely by freewill giving, not the tithe, from the time of the Apostles and for about 500 years, until the Catholic church reinstituted it. They in fact became the appointed priesthood and in many places that were controlled by the Catholic church. It became a state or provincial law that tithing was required.

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According to can. 222 §1, in the Code of Canon Law, "The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So to the pastors that require a tithe of the people, we must ask

1) What text in the Bible to they use to support their request to ask you for a tithe?
Are they a Priest and you are not? 1 Pet. 2:9 says we are all priests...

2) What text in the Bible do they use to support their request to ask you to tithe from your wages?
3) What text in the Bible do they use to support that their "church" is the "storehouse" of Malachi 3? (((Does every preacher in each living room church, each strip mall church, and in each cathedral in every city throughout the Christian world, have a claim to be the actual of "store house" referred to in Malachi 3?)))
4) What text in the Bible do they use to support their requirement that you tithe or you cannot be in Leadership?
5) There were years where no tithe was brought to the Temple, when was the last year that your pastor told you that you did not have to tithe for 12 - 24 months in a row?
6) Do the tithes go to assist the needy, the widow, stranger and fatherless, as the Bible states that it should:

Deut 26:12:
When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Therefore if a pastor is asking for tithes, and NOT giving the "widow, fatherless and stranger" part of the tithe, then HE IS THE ONE ROBBING, USURPING these people out of their due tithes, if he is teaching all of the regulations regarding the tithe. The Tithe was the welfare system of Israel. The needy could find "meat/food"
(H2964 - tereph prey, food, leaf) not MONEY, in the temple of Jerusalem.

The Scribes and Pharisees ADDED their own personal rules and regulations and requirements on the Hebrew people, making up their own commandments and doctrines of men which cannot be supported in the Scriptures. A pastor asking his congregation for a tithe today is not different than these Jewish leaders of old.

Based upon how some here on BPN, use the term "JUDIAZER", these Pastors requiring their members to tithe, with no Biblical support or example from our Savior, are the real Judaizers....

Our Savior did not require a tithe of the Apostles for them to be part of His ministry.
Neither did any of the Apostles mandate that of their co-workers either.

So which Biblical personage are they following/imitating asking people for their tithes??? Certainly not Jesus/Yahshua or His Apostles, so whose teaching are they following???

If these Pastors cannot demonstrate that they are genealogicaly a "Son of Levi" (to whom the tithes were given by the Almighty Himself) because they had "no other inheritance with the other tribes of Israel" these pastors by that one fact are DISQUALIFIED, to ask for a tithe. The tithe was passed from "father to son" in the genealogical line of Levi. In 1 Pet 2:9 we as believers ALL ARE PRIESTS. So there is no human Pastor is any higher of a priest than any of us are, so that we must pay him tithes. Messiah Himself being our HIGH PRIEST.

Then if these Pastors also do not have a Biblical example of what they are doing/requiring as a requirement for church leadership, they should repent of their false teaching and return the monies that were taken from the people by twisting and misinterpreting scripure.

[Preacher]

God Bless Sister
Question: where does the bible tell the Gentiles to give 10%? or tithe?

[Minister A.D. Belfor]

I quickly left a church that had an unspoken rule of not allowing non-tithers to take on roles of leadership in the church. I found it interesting though. The church did not overtly teach tithing as a rule or law, but they behind the closed doors of their hearts that is what they believed. I guess that when one is being considered for leadership they would look over the roster for tithes and offerings and see if the person 'qualifies'. It is unscriptural! Tithing as a righteous requirement of the law has passed away along with all the other mandates of the law. Giving/Sowing has not. Looking at a persons willingness to give of himself is absolutely critical in determining whether or not someone is leadership ready...giving in all areas including financial in accordance to ability and faith. Leaders ought first be measured in the area of love...love that is patient, kind, longsuffering, not puffed up, that believes. There are too many people with money in leadership that really don't love nobody but themselves and their own. Leadership ought then be measure by their conversation--their lifestyle. I Timothy 3 gives the details of this also.

Tithing today is man's measurement tool to guage how much money they can expect to receive on any given Sunday. It is also used in MOST churches (not to say all) as an instrument of deceit...of Satan...to bring condemnation to those seeking to be free. Pastors, Ministers, Evangelist, etc...let's free somebody from the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:1,2 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised [or any ordinance of the law], Christ shall profit you nothing.

It really is a simple Gospel. The work has been done by Christ.

Grace and peace

[Minister Robbin Swinger Otey]

I thought that this would be a good question and I thank everyone for sharing...

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Dear brothers and sisters,

Functionning in the Church has nothing to do with tithing.

A true leader or a true Pastor is the one who has been ordained, commended by God to serve in the Church(Ephesians 4:11)

Now, first, you must be a true leader called by God Himself, then you should tithe. If you don't, you remain a leader but a desobedient leader!

So, the real issue is : Should we tithe?

This is the very question!

Please, answer my questions below.

Indeed, someone said:

"Hebrews 7:12 and 7:18 says that the tithing law of Hebrews 7:5 was ANULLED. Why don't you believe God's New Covenant Word?"

I know that the tithing law prescribed in the Old Testament and the Aaronic priesthood have been abolished.

I know it!

I do not live according to the Law of Moses (Acts 15:1-29).

The born again believers live under the grace. They are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8).

I know it!

Yes, I know that the tithing law prescribed in the Old Testament and the Aaronic priesthood have been abolished.

However, I wish you would explain me the following biblical passage:

“Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise”.

Galatians 3:15-17

Moreover, he said:

“The HISTORICAL Melchisedec was only such "by interpretation." Jesus' priesthood is based on eternal principles per Hebrews 7:11-19”.

According to him, “Abraham gave the tithe of the spoils of war from outside the Holy Land, to the priest-king in obedience to common Canaanite tradition”.

Who was Melchisedec to whom Abraham gave the tithe?

Who was Melchisedec to whom Levi himself gave the tithe through Abraham (Hebrews 7: 9-10)?

Can you explain me the following verse?

“And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living”.

Hebrews 7:7-8


1- "THE TENTH IS COLLECTED BY MEN WHO DIE"

2- "BUT IN THE OTHER CASE, BY HIM WHO IS DECLARED TO BE LIVING"

Now, tell me, who were the deadly men who collect the tenth?

And, who is the One who is declared to be living who also collects the tenth?

“This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises”.

Hebrews 7:6

Who is the one who is declared to be living to whom Levi himself gave the tenth through Abraham?

“Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder!”

Hebrews 7:4

Who was Melchisedec?

Was He a gentile priest-king?

Can a gentile priest-king be the King of righteousness?

Can a gentile priest-king be the King of peace?

Who was that KING without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever (Hebrews 7:1-3)?

Please, explain me Hebrews 7:7- 8!

He asserts that Abraham gave the tithe of the spoils of war from outside the Holy Land, to the priest-king in obedience to common Canaanite tradition.

Did Abraham obey Canaanite tradition?

Brother, please read the following biblical passages so that you can acknowledge better who was Abraham.

Romans 4:9-18; Galatians 3:28-29; Hebrews 11:8-10...

Indeed, the Bible declares:

“Abraham was now old and well advanced in years, and the LORD had blessed him in every way. He said to the chief servant in his household, the one in charge of all that he had, "Put your hand under my thigh. I want you to swear by the LORD, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I am living, but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Isaac." The servant asked him, "What if the woman is unwilling to come back with me to this land? Shall I then take your son back to the country you came from?"

Genesis 24:1-5

Indeed, Abraham said: “you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I am living, but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Isaac”

Abraham could never obey common Canaanite tradition and at the same time prevent his servant from getting a wife for his son from the daughters of the Canaanites among whom he was living?


Who was Melchisedec(Psalm 110:4, Heb 5:10, 6:20, 7:1-28)?

Who was Melchisedec WHO BLESSED ABRAHAM?

Who was Melchisedec to whom Abraham gave the tithe?


I’m waiting for your BIBLICAL ANSWER(not your opinion).

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

www.tagworld.com/srobouay

www.myspace.com/wawesan

[James Pierce]

Tithing was for the Priests. It is not a biblical requirement to tithe. Why? There are NO priests, and no temple lol.

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

May God open your eyes!

Bro. Germain

[Minister Robbin Swinger Otey]

Okay, okay, that's enough on this topic! Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinion and in some cases a solid word was shared to support your perspective.

In a nutshell, a pastor can set whatever mandate he wants on the leadership that must submit to him whether it is supported Bibically or not and many do just that.

And a FACT of the matter is that many mainline (and other) churches DO choose leaders based on their monetary ability to support ministry efforts.

Period, point blank.

Kudos to the scholars and researchers on this topic. Stay tuned for more thought provoking questions.

peace & love...