The RAW QUESTION is...............

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Some people here believe upon "Sola Scriptura", which means "By Scriptures Only". By definition, the Bible becomes their sole authority. This sounds good, but there is a problem: if you believe in "Sola Scriptura", then you must forfeit your belief in the Charismatic gifts (tongues, prophetic utterances, laying on of hands, Apostles, Prophets, angelic visitations, ect...). This extremist doctrine developed to counter the extremist doctrine that Pope Leo X used during the days of Martin Luther.

So the RAW QUESTION is: do you believe that GOD still does the miraculous, and that HE can use you to perform it? Do you believe in a GOD that still speaks Prophetically not only through His written word, but vocally by the mouth of His servants today (NOT JUST SERMONS)?

With this question, I especially direct this towards the Baptist believers for reasons that may be obvious, but not meant to be offensive, to them..........

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Do I believe that Jesus speaks by Prophet, yes the one's in the Bible.

Do I believe in this stuff, tongues, prophetic utterances, laying on of hands, Apostles, Prophets, angelic visitations, ect...) No because, you are right it is Roman Catholic dogma. I could lay out all of the biblical definitions of those utterances, tongues, etc, but it will not be taken as truth because it comes from the Bible.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

OK, why not:

-angelic visitations?
-prophetic utterances?
-Apostles?
-Prophets?
-laying on of hands?
-word of wisdom?

These things are according to the scriptures. why do you not believe in them?

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

I don't believe it like how most Christians think. The Apostles are the people of the new testament. Prophets are the Men of God of the old Testament. Prophetic utterances is speaking prophecy by the Law, and the testimony. Laying on of hands is when you cast out demons, but you must be keeping the law for these gifts to be given. Word of wisdom is the Bible. Angelic visitations happen every time you open your mouth to teach or learn the word. The angel is the one who gives you the words to say if you are keeping the commandments. This is why I said I didn't believe because how most think about those things. Their imagination runs, and tries to grab power, and prestige. Lots of people call themselves prophets, and apostles on this network, but teach against the commandments.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

1) Technically speaking, we are STILL in the NT, so whats your point?

2) Technically speaking, there were full-fledged Prophets in the NT as well, so whats your point?

3) The rest makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER! The rest is truly vain imaginations! You literally twisted scripture to whatever you wanted it to say. You disregarded 1st Corinthians 12, Acts 27, and many other scriptures.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

People who don't know how to serve God want to have the biggest roles in what they think is serving God.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

I, too, believe it and I'm a Baptist.

[Pastor Rodrick Sweet,ThM]

The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

Sola scriptura was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible. Some examples are prayer to saints and/or Mary, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, infant baptism, indulgences, and papal authority. Martin Luther, the founder of the Lutheran Church and father of the Protestant Reformation, was publicly rebuking the Catholic Church for its unbiblical teachings. The Catholic Church threatened Martin Luther with excommunication (and death) if he did not recant.

Martin Luther's reply was, “Unless therefore I am convinced by the testimony of Scripture, or by the clearest reasoning, unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the Word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other; may God help me! Amen!”

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The reason why it is directed towards Baptists is simple: It has been the Baptists, (or those with a Baptist background) that have taken the very standpoint that inspired this post. Pentecostals here (be it Oneness or Trinitarian) believe otherwise. I ran into ONLY 1 Anglican, and no Lutherans, Methodist, Episcopalians, or any other Western Denomination that have presented the standpoint of being whole-heartedly "Sola Scriptura".

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

True, and His word declares that HE will set up 24 elders to rule over the Kingdom of GOD, under the very KING of kings Himself. This is Prima Scritura to the fullest! Also, you mention "when its all said and done", but nothing is "done" yet.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You presented a very strong argument Pastor Sweet, one pointing out the past corruption of tyrants in Priestly garments. The errors of the Roman Catholic Church however, should not sway someone to totally turn away from the gifts and authority that was granted by GOD Himself to His servants. Papal authority is not Apostolic authority. It must be known that there is a difference. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16), and this is true. However, Paul was the one that also said:

1st Corinthians 14:1-3 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

You would be quick to point to Paul's statement in Chapter 13 about the perfect coming, indicating that he meant scriptures. I will be even quicker to tell you that the doctrine found within scriptures does not replace the prophetic at all. On the contrary, they counter-balance, and compliment each other:

1st Corinthians 14:6 "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

When Martin Luther made his statements, he spoke MAINLY on the basis of salvation. It is important to note what was going on during those days within the Roman Catholic order (I see why GOD recently instructed me to go back and study up on Martin Luther!): Pope Leo X was trying to make his solid claim on fame by remodeling St. Peter's Basillica, however the Vatican was just about bankrupt. Therefore, he instructed Cardinal to go about and "sell indulgences". Martin Luther challenged this with his famous/infamous "95 theses". After a long bout with Rome, he declared the Pope the anti-Christ, and broke away from Rome. The People also excommunicated him. The Vatican burned his books, he burned their Canon Laws openly, and so on.....

Because of this experience, Martin Luther held to certain positions when ordaining his own priests. Two most notably for this discussion are:

-Salvation by faith alone (totally agreeable)
-Sola Scriptura (not a revelation, but a prejudice due to his experiences with Roman Bishops)

It is interesting and important to note that this is the same man that, due to negative experiences, held to these other positions:

-Antisemitism
-No Bishops (also not a revelation, but a prejudice against Bishops due to his experiences with Rome)

His position as far as being a liberator and father of the Protestant Reformation actually is fully Apostolic, as is his creation of the Lutheran faith. However, he contradicts himself concerning Sola Scriptura, for he violates Jews, and he wrote both the Large & the Small Catechism. This is in direct violation of "Sola Scriptura" and moves into the authority of "Prima Scritura", for he exercised Apostolic authority.

It is important to understand that true "Prima Scriptura" does not violate the Bible's authority, but gives Apostolic authority and Prophetic utterances a "measuring stick" to be checked by. It keeps those that claim to be Prophets and Apostles from running wild, and yet true Apostles and Prophet move according to the Holy Spirit's leading:

1st Corinthians 14:29-33 "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

1st Corinthians 14:37-40 "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order."

1 Thessalonians 5:19-20 "Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings."

1st Timothy 4:14-16 "Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

"Sola Scriptura" & "Prima Scriptura" are not issues of salvation, which you are dragging it to. They are matters of GOD-given authority.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Trevor,

If Sola Scripture a man's term not Gods means "by scripture only", how do they reconcile that with Moses burning bush, the Red Sea parting, Manna from Heaven, the transfiguration, the Light striking Paul, and Annanias/Sapphira falling dead along with so many others.

There are so many things in the scriptures that point to the fact that the Word being the foundation, gives you a faith in God that surpassess all understanding

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Those very things that you mentioned matter not when you speak of Sola Scriptura. Sola scriptura says that GOD will not answer you audibly. Sola Scriptura speaks against the use of speaking in and interpretation of tongues. Sola Scriptura deems any prophetic word you received as null and void. Signs and wonders are no longer in opporation with the notion of Sola Scriptura.

All the things that you mentioned there Evangelist are keys to "Prima Scriptura", allowing for the supernatural of GOD to operate while keeping the Holy Scriptures before your eyes as the judge and balance to all.