The Sabbath Day Does Not Begin At Sunset As The Rabbis Say It Does. - Black Preaching Network2024-03-29T12:27:15Zhttp://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topics/the-sabbath-day-does-not-begin?commentId=916966%3AComment%3A1916730&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noFirst off, Praise Yah for mak…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-02-23:916966:Comment:19167302011-02-23T22:44:41.389ZCongregation Yahshurunhttp://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/CongregationYahshurun
<p>First off, Praise Yah for making His Word so clear for all to understand. Thank you James for this well written and supported article on the beginning of a day and The Sabbath. It does seems as if Day of Atonement is the only Feast Day that was observed from evening to evening, like Eccl 12:13 said. My question is, if that day was like all the others than why mention the evening-to-evening part? On the contrary, I think all days begin in the morning and day of Atonement was the exception. I…</p>
<p>First off, Praise Yah for making His Word so clear for all to understand. Thank you James for this well written and supported article on the beginning of a day and The Sabbath. It does seems as if Day of Atonement is the only Feast Day that was observed from evening to evening, like Eccl 12:13 said. My question is, if that day was like all the others than why mention the evening-to-evening part? On the contrary, I think all days begin in the morning and day of Atonement was the exception. I dont think,but I know, because that's what it says in Scripture. James you have shown several examples of the morning senario fitting perfectly to constitute a day, Eccl has only shown one. If Eccl has a link or an article proving that the evening to evening senario is Biblical than I would love to read that as well. Congregation Yahshurun has an article about <a target="undefined" href="http://kingdominfo.net/truth/?p=5">When the day begins</a> which is available for all to read, comment and share. From the comments on our article it seems like more people are interested in attacking the messenger than the message. What we've found is that the evening-to-evening senario is NOT biblical to constitute a day, but instead it originated in the Talmud (Reference: Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayim 293:2). Additionally, the first four gospels have 3 different accounts when the woman came back to the Messiah's tomb: According the John, the women came "on the first day of the week while it was still dark" but in Mark <strong>AND</strong> Luke write that the women came when "it was daylight" and Matthew simply states that they came to look to the tomb but doesnt give a reference to the time of day. Also, I would like to say that no where is Scripture does it tell us how long the night is or how long "darkness was on the face of the deep" therefore who said darkness was a way for us to tell time? Instead the Messiah reminded us in John 11:9 that there are only 12 hours in a day. The day or light portion is to be used to determine our time. Why is the light important, well for one when light was created our Heavenly Father looked on it and said it was good (Gen 1:4), and His Children are called children of Light (Eph. 5:8 and 1 Thess 5:5). The bible uses the term "day" very clearly, I think with the man made 24-hr day and the Talmudic evening-to-evening "day" things became a little hazy, but HalleluYah we have The Bible to bring us all back to Truth. Shalom, Peace to all.</p> Eccl,
Instead of calling me…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-22:916966:Comment:12652582010-03-22T17:36:17.456ZJames Piercehttp://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JamesPierce
Eccl,<br />
<br />
Instead of calling me names and attacking me.. <i>attack the message itself</i>. I will not respond to you until you refute my whole article. The classic thing people love to do, if they cannot attack the message.. they attack the messenger. This is what they did to Jesus. They could not attack His theology, and so they figured out ways to take Him out. So eccl, I will be waiting for your rebuttal to my paper.<br />
<br />
Shalom
Eccl,<br />
<br />
Instead of calling me names and attacking me.. <i>attack the message itself</i>. I will not respond to you until you refute my whole article. The classic thing people love to do, if they cannot attack the message.. they attack the messenger. This is what they did to Jesus. They could not attack His theology, and so they figured out ways to take Him out. So eccl, I will be waiting for your rebuttal to my paper.<br />
<br />
Shalom Honor;
- strong moral charac…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-21:916966:Comment:12643102010-03-21T22:12:53.719ZEccl. 12:13http://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RayVining
Honor;<br />
<br />
- strong moral character or strength, and adherence to ethical principles<br />
<br />
- to keep a promise, or fulfill the terms of an agreement<br />
<br />
- obligated by a promise or ethical principles to do something<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
James Pierce, "I just will not respond to you until you have read ALL of my rebuttal."<br />
<br />
I have read ALL of your rebuttal. I then asked you to answer 4 questions.<br />
<br />
Your next reply was the following;<br />
<br />
"Write a rebuttal to every line of my paper, then we'll talk."<br />
<br />
To which I say;<br />
<br />
You are a…
Honor;<br />
<br />
- strong moral character or strength, and adherence to ethical principles<br />
<br />
- to keep a promise, or fulfill the terms of an agreement<br />
<br />
- obligated by a promise or ethical principles to do something<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
James Pierce, "I just will not respond to you until you have read ALL of my rebuttal."<br />
<br />
I have read ALL of your rebuttal. I then asked you to answer 4 questions.<br />
<br />
Your next reply was the following;<br />
<br />
"Write a rebuttal to every line of my paper, then we'll talk."<br />
<br />
To which I say;<br />
<br />
You are a man without honor James Pierce. If that is what you wanted I would have told you I do not have time to reply to each and every line of your post.<br />
<br />
There are at least 29 major paragraphs and at least the same number of lines. Your request is something that requires far too much time. Besides....how do I know you will honor your recent request?<br />
<br />
Reading you post is something well within my means which is what I did.<br />
<br />
My advice to you is to post what you would like to post. If you would like others to reply, write just what it is you want them to reply to..........do not change the rules midway through the game.<br />
<br />
Honor is something that cannot be taken from a person. When people know a man has honor, even though they may not agree or even like the person they still respect the person.<br />
<br />
I may not have agreed with everything you have posted on this forum, but up until now you still had my respect!<br />
<br />
You, James Pierce, are a man without honor!<br />
<br />
And because you have no honor you also have not my respect!<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
. Eccl,
Write a rebuttal to ev…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-21:916966:Comment:12640282010-03-21T14:36:47.713ZJames Piercehttp://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JamesPierce
Eccl,<br />
<br />
Write a rebuttal to every line of my paper, then we'll talk.
Eccl,<br />
<br />
Write a rebuttal to every line of my paper, then we'll talk. OK Brother.......I have read…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-18:916966:Comment:12614732010-03-18T22:28:43.294ZEccl. 12:13http://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RayVining
OK Brother.......I have read your post!<br />
<br />
Now if you can reply to a few of my "short" questions?<br />
<br />
Let's look at something;<br />
<br />
Lev.23<br />
[32] It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.<br />
<br />
Did you catch that last verse brother?<br />
<br />
"...in the ninth day of the month at even..."<br />
<br />
So the 9th day ends at even and the 10th day begins at even for the day of Atonement!<br />
<br />
So for this feast the…
OK Brother.......I have read your post!<br />
<br />
Now if you can reply to a few of my "short" questions?<br />
<br />
Let's look at something;<br />
<br />
Lev.23<br />
[32] It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.<br />
<br />
Did you catch that last verse brother?<br />
<br />
"...in the ninth day of the month at even..."<br />
<br />
So the 9th day ends at even and the 10th day begins at even for the day of Atonement!<br />
<br />
So for this feast the day starts and ends at evening!<br />
<br />
But you want me to believe ALL of God's other days start in the morning!<br />
<br />
Next;<br />
<br />
You quoted the following;<br />
<br />
"Our Sabbath is held in memory of Christ’s resurrection, and it is certain that Christ rose early in the morning of the first day of the week."<br />
<br />
You said nothing to refute the statement so I am asuming you agree, to which I asked the following;<br />
<br />
So is this what you now believe brother? That Jesus rose from the grave in the MORNING of the first day of the week? Do you now also believe He was put in the grave on FRIDAY evening also? Will you be buying a new suit for Easter too?<br />
<br />
Let's look at just two more things you quoted;<br />
<br />
"Exodus 16: The Manna & The Sabbath:<br />
<br />
This is one of the great scriptures, among many, that proves that the Sabbath starts in the morning. It shows us that Abba wants His people to gather manna on the morning of the 6th day, because on the 7th day, in the morning, they will not find it there. Verse 21,"They gathered it morning by morning." Notice that it did not say,"They gathered it evening by evening." In Israelite culture, work is not done in the evening.. not because its a Sabbath, or that it begins a new day, but that work is not done in the evening.. similar to the creation story, where Abba does no work in evening, but only during the day."<br />
<br />
So work is not done in the evening! REALLY!!!! I wonder why? Why on earth would God not have them to gather evening to evening? I wonder?<br />
<br />
Could it be because it is DARK! Come on brother! Common sense!<br />
<br />
And next;<br />
<br />
"If the Sabbath actually started in the evening before the actual 7th day, then Jesus would have been laid in the tomb on the Sabbath(that friday evening), and that is against Jewish custom. Jesus was laid in the tomb, according to scripture, the day before the Sabbath."<br />
<br />
Come on now brother. We know it was NOT before the weekly Sabbath that Jesus was laid in the grave!<br />
<br />
Scripture CLEARLY states it was a HIGH Sabbath. There were TWO Sabbaths the week of Jesus death!<br />
<br />
<br />
Like I said, I have read your post....now if you could honor what you said you would do, by addressing my questions!<br />
<br />
Here they are again just incase;<br />
<br />
<br />
1. The 9th day ends at even and the 10th day begins at even for the day of Atonement. This one scriptures CLEARLY shows when one days starts and another begins! But you want me to believe ALL of God's other days start in the morning! Explain?<br />
<br />
2. You quoted the following;<br />
<br />
"Our Sabbath is held in memory of Christ’s resurrection, and it is certain that Christ rose early in the morning of the first day of the week."<br />
<br />
You said nothing to refute the statement so I am asuming you agree, to which I asked the following;<br />
<br />
So is this what you now believe brother? That Jesus rose from the grave in the MORNING of the first day of the week? Forgetting about the day He died the fact is that Jesus was in the grave for, what He said, was 72 hrs. If He was laid in the ground at sunset, 72hrs later would still be SUNSET! Explain?<br />
<br />
3. You quoted the following, " While the evening marks the conclusion of the day, this does not, in anyway, mark the beginning of the following day."<br />
<br />
If this is what you now believe just when does the next day start? What are we to call the hours between evening and morning if one day does not start as soon as the previous ends.?<br />
<br />
4. You did not provide one scriptures where it states the days starts in the morning. You provided a lot of scriptures that says activites stopped in the evening and resumed in the morning, but not ONE that said a new day begins in the morning.<br />
<br />
In contrast, I presented the following;<br />
<br />
Lev.23<br />
Lev. 23<br />
[27] Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.<br />
[32] It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.<br />
<br />
At evening an old day ends and a new one begins.<br />
<br />
It is amazing that man set his day up the same way as God. Tonight, Thurs., Mar. 18th at 11:59:59 it will still be Thur. Mar. 18th. But at 12:00:01 it will be Fri., Mar.19th.<br />
<br />
One days begins as soon as the other ends!<br />
<br />
<br />
Brother........WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU????<br />
<br />
<br />
. Ecc,
I need you to face ALL…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-18:916966:Comment:12612112010-03-18T14:59:38.912ZJames Piercehttp://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JamesPierce
Ecc,<br />
<br />
I need you to face ALL of my rebuttal, otherwise, refrain from responding. I just will not respond to you until you have read ALL of my rebuttal.<br />
<br />
Shalom
Ecc,<br />
<br />
I need you to face ALL of my rebuttal, otherwise, refrain from responding. I just will not respond to you until you have read ALL of my rebuttal.<br />
<br />
Shalom I will just address one point…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-18:916966:Comment:12612022010-03-18T14:35:32.313ZEccl. 12:13http://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RayVining
I will just address one point on your post Bro. Pierce, which is the following;<br />
<br />
"Our Sabbath is held in memory of Christ’s resurrection, and it is certain that Christ rose early in the morning of the first day of the week."<br />
<br />
So is this what you now believe brother? That Jesus rose from the grave in the MORNING of the first day of the week? Do you now also believe He was put in the grave on FRIDAY evening also? Will you be buying a new suit for Easter too?<br />
<br />
Again brother.......WHAT HAS HAPPENED…
I will just address one point on your post Bro. Pierce, which is the following;<br />
<br />
"Our Sabbath is held in memory of Christ’s resurrection, and it is certain that Christ rose early in the morning of the first day of the week."<br />
<br />
So is this what you now believe brother? That Jesus rose from the grave in the MORNING of the first day of the week? Do you now also believe He was put in the grave on FRIDAY evening also? Will you be buying a new suit for Easter too?<br />
<br />
Again brother.......WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU?????<br />
<br />
Jesus Himself said He would be in the grave for THREE days and THREE nights. You know I do not believe what most on this forum believe as far as the way the Jews of the day counted their days as parts of days are equal to a day, so we will go with ONLY what the master said....THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS, or 72 hrs.<br />
<br />
I get 72hrs from Jesus Himself;<br />
<br />
Matt.12<br />
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.<br />
<br />
John 11<br />
[9] Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.<br />
<br />
Jesus Himself tells us how many hours are in a day. So what does that leave for night? TWELVE HOURS!!!!<br />
<br />
And how many day periods and night periods did Jesus say He would be in the grave? THREE DAYS X (12hrs) = 36 + THREE NIGHTS X (12hrs) TOTAL = 72hrs! This is what Jesus gave us, so I could care less how the Jews of the day kept or counted their days!!!<br />
<br />
With that said, Jesus was placed in the grave just before sundown and He rose EXACTLY 72 hours, or three days later, JUST BEFORE SUNDOWN. Not a few hours AFTER sundown, but exactly 72 hours later.<br />
<br />
So it is IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to have risen in the morning of the first day of the week.<br />
<br />
Let's look at Matt. again;<br />
<br />
Matt.28<br />
[1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.<br />
<br />
This simply states when Mary arrived, NOT that Jesus rose in the dawn of the first day of the week. This is stated below in the 6th verse;<br />
<br />
[5] And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.<br />
[6] He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.<br />
<br />
Jesus had already risen when Mary arrived.<br />
<br />
Jesus rose exactly 72hrs after He was put in the grave, 3 days later just before sunset.....AT EVENING! The Sabbath was ending and the first day of the week was beginning.........AT EVENING!!!! Just like what we have today.....One day ends at 11:59pm and another begins at 12:00am!<br />
<br />
What has happened to you brother?????<br />
<br />
<br />
.<br />
<br />
. Ecc,
Read ALL of my rebuttal…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-18:916966:Comment:12608552010-03-18T02:25:14.445ZJames Piercehttp://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JamesPierce
Ecc,<br />
<br />
Read ALL of my rebuttal, and your questions will change. How do I know that you did not read ALL of my rebuttal? Because you ask me this,"<i>There are records that the Jews of Jesus time started God's Sabbath at the evening. It was done that way before Jesus was born. It was done that way while He was alive here on earth. It was done the same way after Jesus died</i>!" AND, when you posted Lev 23. So, Read all of it, then get back with me.
Ecc,<br />
<br />
Read ALL of my rebuttal, and your questions will change. How do I know that you did not read ALL of my rebuttal? Because you ask me this,"<i>There are records that the Jews of Jesus time started God's Sabbath at the evening. It was done that way before Jesus was born. It was done that way while He was alive here on earth. It was done the same way after Jesus died</i>!" AND, when you posted Lev 23. So, Read all of it, then get back with me. "And for this cause God shall…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-03-18:916966:Comment:12608002010-03-18T00:28:10.954ZEccl. 12:13http://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RayVining
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"<br />
<br />
Brother....what has happened?<br />
<br />
There are records that the Jews of Jesus time started God's Sabbath at the evening. It was done that way before Jesus was born. It was done that way while He was alive here on earth. It was done the same way after Jesus died!<br />
<br />
Question... If this was wrong, why didn't Jesus correct them?<br />
<br />
Brother........what has happened to you?<br />
<br />
Let's look at something brother;<br />
<br />
Lev.…
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"<br />
<br />
Brother....what has happened?<br />
<br />
There are records that the Jews of Jesus time started God's Sabbath at the evening. It was done that way before Jesus was born. It was done that way while He was alive here on earth. It was done the same way after Jesus died!<br />
<br />
Question... If this was wrong, why didn't Jesus correct them?<br />
<br />
Brother........what has happened to you?<br />
<br />
Let's look at something brother;<br />
<br />
Lev. 23<br />
[27] Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.<br />
[28] And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.<br />
[29] For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.<br />
[30] And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.<br />
[31] Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.<br />
[32] It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.<br />
<br />
Did you catch that last verse brother?<br />
<br />
"...in the ninth day of the month at even..."<br />
<br />
So the 9th day ends at even and the 10th day begins at even for the day of Atonement!<br />
<br />
But you want me to believe ALL of God's other days start in the morning!<br />
<br />
Brother......what has happened to you?<br />
<br />
<br />
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"<br />
<br />
<br />
.