"TQ" (Trivia Question) "In Genesis 6:2, are the "Sons of God" men or angels?"
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Maurice Edwards on
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So fallen angels can exchange their celestial bodies for flesh and blood bodies and produce procreative seed?
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Okay, thanks for your comment on this topic.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Gill on
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I understood Jesus to imply that angels don't have have the sexual/social dimension that human beings have. That's how I read his comment that in the Resurrection we won't recognize marriage any longer because we will be like the angels: "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" [Mat. 22:30]
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I've always had the view you have according to scripture and Angeloogy.
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The text actually says that there were giants in that "day" (yowm). And "also" "after" the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men. So there were giants in the land in that day before the sons of God went in unto the daughters of men according to the language of the text. And God seems to be angry with man alone in Genesis six. He says his spirit won't always strive with man for he is flesh. And he repented that he made man. This attitude seemed to stem from what the sons of God had done in this text. Why didn't God address the angels if they were the sons of God? Instead he addressed man for these sins. And would the scripture still address these fallen angels as sons of God? As in Job, etc.... It seems "sons" is a term reserved for those who belong to God.
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We've discussed this before, Brother Watson. While it is clear from Jude 6,7 that there are fallen angels imprisoned (in Tartarus, I agree), I have explained in depth why I do not believe 2 Peter 2:4 refers to them. Moreover, I am persuaded it is Revelation 12 that identifies for us the reason those fallen angels are in chains, and not Genesis 6.
And, while "sons of God" is a term that stands for angelic beings in Job, I am surprised you believe its every appearance in Hebrew has to therefor refer to angels. This isn't true for other biblical terms. For example, we know "son of man" is a messianic title, but it isn't that when applied to the prophet Ezekiel repeatedly in the book bearing his name.
But my biggest question regarding the "fallen angels fathering giants" supposition is why we even read Genesis 6:4 to claim this. The verse (in King James) reads:
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." The presence of giants in the earth is not directly attributed to the union of "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men"... the existence of the Nephilim is attested to, and then the progeny of "the sons of God" is described as being "mighty men."
I think the language is very confusing, which is why for a difficult passage like this I rely on the clearer teaching of Jesus [Mat. 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35,36] that the angels are sexless (and presumably could not marry or breed with human women).
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And after reading Jude carefully, I see that Jude is warning his readers of evil men who had crept in among them. And he reminds them of those he judged in the past. In verse 4 he addresses these men who were ordained to condemnation. Then he reminds them of what God did to the unbelieving Israelites after he delivered them out of Egypt. Then he addresses the judgment on the angels. Then he addresses Sodom and Gomorrha and their fornication/sexual immorality and judgment. In this text I don't think you can connect the judment on the angels with the judgment on Sodom and Gomorrha like you can't connect the Israelites in verse 5 with the angels in verse 6. I think the "Even as" in verse 7 causes people to think that verse 6 and 7 are connected in that the angels committed fornication. But I see three different examples of God's judgment in these three verses.
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First, I see your view as a Second Temple Judaism view that stemmed from the book of "Enoch" and the book of "Jubilees". Which interpreted the sons of God as fallen angels, which teaching was cursed by Rabbi Yochai. By the 3rd Century BC the term "sons of God" refered to the descendants of Seth. And early Christianity definitely termed it as such. The sinful union of the sons of God and the daughters of men who were the descendants of wicked men produced the "Nephilim". That's why God said he would destroy "man" in verse 7. He never meantions the destruction of fallen angels that were sinning on earth with man. Secondly, I see 2 Peter 2 and Jude both displaying God's judgment on the wicked. In 2 Peter 2 there is a clear seperation with God's dealing with the fallen angels and Sodom and Gomorrha. And I think the passages in both books hinge on 2 Peter 2:9.......The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished. The fallen angels of Revelation 12:4 are the ones I believe these books are refering to. There is a judgment reserved for them. (Jude 6). I don't think fallen angels and sons of God can be the same. The sons of God in Job 1:6 are righteous angels that were distinct from satan who was present as well. In Job 38:7 the sons of God were righteous angels in heaven as well. Now where does it teach that angels can be attracted to female humans is my question?
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I believe that the term sons of God were used to label the line of Seth in Genesis, and the righteous angels in Job Chapters 1 and 2. And I believe the sons of God are the saints in John 1:12, 1 John 3:1, and so on in the NT. So I do believe the term can refer to righteous angels, but I don't believe those were angels in Genesis 6 and I don't believe angels can interact with man sexually at all. And I don't believe angels repeated this after the flood to produce the giants found in Numbers 13. Who did Anak the progenitor of these giant people descend from? Another half angel, half man lineage? I appreciate your scholarship, but I don't believe in procreative angels. Thanks.
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You're comparing the power and ability of the Holy Spirit with created beings? WOW!
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There isn't a reply button under your last post so I had to reply here. No you didn't prove your case because Genesis 5 lists the generations from Adam to Noah. And Seth begat sons and daughters, so did Enos, and so on. How can you prove the age of Seth's sons and dauthers in Genesis 6?
Genesis 4:25-26- And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Seth replaced Abel and Noah descended from Seth.
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I see in the OT (Ben) is the Greek word for sons. Which includes son, male child, etc..... And son of God, (Angels). In the NT I see Teknon, and Huios, which include the same definitions. I also see in the OT, that the sons of God addressed angels in both Genesis and Job. It doesn't address humans until the NT John 1:12. So you might have a point from this perspective that I see.
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