AS A DELIVERANCE MINISTER I HAVE DISCOVERD BY CASTING DEVILS OUT WITHOUT FIRST COUNSELING LEAVES A PERSON WORST OFF BECAUSE SOME TIMES THE PERSON REALLY DIDNOT WANT TO LET IT GO AND DEAMONS COME BACK STRONGER AND MANY MORE IF SOME DILIVERANCE MIGHT HAPPEN THEY DONT REPLACE THAT VOID WITH WORD AND COMMENTMENT TO A LOCAL BODY AND BE ACCOUNTABLE TO OTHER BELEIVERS WHO ARE STRONG IN THE LORD TO HELP PRAY AND BUILD THEM UP IN THE LORD.
Firstly thank you for addressing a most serious subject, and sorry that my post is on the lengthy side.
IMHO, I personally believe that IF a person is truly demon possessed, then counselling prior to deliverance isn't going to make any real difference. Firstly speaking godly counsel from the Word, as you know, it going to make that demon very upset, so all teaching has to be done after deliverance.
However, having said that, from personal experience it can be difficult to take authority and cast out a demonic spirit, unless the possessed person is willing to be delivered. Sometimes it is difficult for a person to want to be released as the demonic spirit has become such an intricate part of their personality, they can actually fear that they are losing part of themselves. Particularly if the demon adds a dimension which they may class as beneficial, such as extrovert and/or dominant behavioural patterns. So in my experience this is where the majority of the battle takes place, in quietening the spirit in order to speak to the person, which I have found can be done through intensive counselling immediately before deliverance.
So apologies for having contradicted myself, it is just that I have never come across two possessions or oppressions that are the same. Therefore trying to construct a formula for deliverance has problems, as there are such variation in devils as there are people. One thing I do know for sure, and that is to be led by the Spirit in determining what is best, and to work on a case by case scenario as the Spirit leads.
Another vital aspect I have realised is also to discover how possession happened. Where and how did the invitation for possession occur. Good sound teaching on how possession occurs, i.e. occult, drugs, alcohol, sex etc, can combat and prevent re-infestation, and of course, as you have suggested accountability to a local body of believers. This is sometimes the hardest part, in getting strong Christians to commit to people who have been delivered. Because a total lifestyle change is sometimes what is really called for and required, i.e. new neighbourhood, new friends, etc., This is were the hard work and commitment really begins for Christians.
This is a very interesting topic for me personally, I have been used a number of times by the Lord in this area, and at the same time the ministry that I am involved with is to educate the church from a medical perspective about mental health which is NOT demon possession or oppression. Unfortunately we had been blasted with the 'emotional health' gospel for so long, that today if someone presents with mental health issues, at worst it is regarded as demonic, and at best they are offered 'christian' (pseudo psycho babble) counselling, when really they need decent medical and pharmacological intervention. This is very sad and desperately needs re-addressing, as it is just these ones that our Lord came for. I have diverged, apologies for going off on a tangent for a moment there.
Wishing you every blessing in your ministry.
As an addendum:
Would you mind terribly if I asked a question of you, just out of interest, when casting out demons, where do you cast them? do you cast them to Tartarus? thanks.
I totally agree with what you said also, there is a different between mental illness and being demon possessed. Back to the question you asked about where do I tell them to go, I send them to them back to the pit. According to Jude 1:6 The Bible says they left their first estate. I cast them into everlasting darkness until the day of judgement.
Praise God, this aspect of casting them to the abyss unitl judgment as you know, is just so important to deliverance ministry , they therefore cannot continue to damage others. I have found many inexperienced christians can miss this vital aspect.
I would say counseling isn't necessary prior to casting out a demon. A demon is cast out by the authority of the Holy Spirit and not dependent on whether or not a person wants to let go. When Jesus cast out legions, was it based on the person's willingness to let go? When the apostles cast out demon's did it have anything to do with the will of the person?
The demons are not subject to US BUT THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN US. If we command them to go, in Jesus Name, they will have to leave. No screaming, loud speech, yelling or spitting ...LOL Just a commandment by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I do agree with Caral however, that follow up teaching is required so that the person is equipped with the word of God and that they understand, that being filled with the Holy Spirit of God will keep demons from entering again.
In answer to your questions, I do believe that there is always a willingness, the people that demons were driven out from, were all willing because they either came themselves or were brought before Jesus or the disciples by loved ones. Hence the willingness. IMO Legion himself wanted rid of his demons, who would want to live a life being kept chained hand and foot and under guard, this was why he would break out, and seek out isolated places to hide.
Also what I have noticed in the scriptures is that the demons are in fact subjected to Jesus' Name, in Mark we see the discplines approach Jesus because a man was driving out demons in His Name, and who was in fact, not one of them.
I also believe from personal experience and from my studies of the great Dr Martin Lloyd Jones, who was famous for his preaching and deliverance ministry throughout England, that christians can in fact be demon possessed. The Holy Spirit is not a liquid to be poured into someone, He is a person and the greatest of Gentlemen, and He can be grieved, therefore distanting Himself from someone. It is all to do with invitation, IMO a demon cannot enter someone without an invitation, all be sometimes unwittingly, particularly through ignorance, again highlighting the important of godly counsel and the full understanding of what submission to God means for those that receive deliverance.
The only thing that I thought Jesus couldn't do was Lie, Die eternally or fail. Trevor has just declared that JESUS could not cast out a demon from an unwilling party!!!!!!
So are you saying that in those cases the demons are more POWERFUL than Jesus? Then you have made the will of man more powerful than JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.
The scripture below shows that the power to cast out demons has nothing to do with a person's willingness.
28. And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30. And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
I am of the belief that someone who is born again and has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit cannot be demonically possessed because that would mean that the demon had more power that the Holy Spirit. But Jesus tells us:
"No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."
praise the lord Rev culberson a believer that is born again cannot be possessed but as a deliverance minister i have discoverd they can have a demon that dwells in there soulish which is in the mind will and emotion i have wrote many peopel about this subject most peopel that dont have understanding about this ministry so we could go on what we fill. that scripture about the strong man was talking about to every spirit there is a leader so in casting out a spirit you must first go after the strong man the lesser spirits will be easy then.
The experiences he described are also my own, I have seen this time and time again from both sides of the argument, as a professional practitioner and also being used by the Lord in deliverance ministry. In the insititutions that I have been involved with, I can guarantee at a conversative estimate up to 70% of patients are Christians, and I am speaking of soldiers of the Lord, who study their scriptures long and hard and never move around the ward without their Bible.
This is could be looked at from two ways. One way, is as the Lord came for the sick, we would expect many people with mental health issues to be saved. Or that satan is having a field day oppessing those that are vulnerable due to mental health isses.
I believe that we as Christians have to understand the difference in Demon possession and the workings of the flesh. Also, how can a person be both filled with the Holy Spirit of God and possessed by a demon. That doesn't even sound logical. If someone is demon possessed, I would question whether they really had the Holy Ghost.
We must not assume that everyone who claims to be a Christian is also filled with the Holy Ghost. The KKK claims to be Christians, yet they are filled with hatred, lies, murder and all sorts of evil. One can be touched by the Spirit of God and not be filled or indwelled by him.
Also the issue of casting out demons, it is still my belief that demons are subject to the Holy Spirit regardless of the person's willingness to let go. See, Caral I think you are looking at the person and not the demons they have. The man with the legions is a good example. He was no longer speaking, the demons were. They asked Jesus, are you here to send us away and Jesus simply said, come out of the man. He didn't lay hands on him, douse him with oil, wrestle him to the ground or use any of the dramatics we see employed today.
They came out because the Lord Spoke and it is by the Spirit of God that we cast out devils. They are subject to the Spirit regardless of the person they are in. Can you actually imagine a demon telling Jesus, No I'm not coming out. We mustn't forget, that it is us that are the hindrance sometimes and not the Holy Ghost. That's why Jesus told the Apostles, that these kind come out through fasting and prayer. Now, Jesus himself didn't need to fast and pray to cast out demons, but sometimes, we are of doubtful minds and need to get that Holy reassurance.