Who is your spiritual father - God or a man of God?

[Brother John]

Matthew 23:8-9

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Sorry, God has no grandchildren, only SONS!!! John 1:12,
Even Jesus is not our Father, but the Firstborn amongst many BRETHREN!!! Rom. 8:29,
John 20:17-Jesus saith ... go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father.

‎"... my Father and your Father". Be sure to have God as your Father and relate to Him as such. Do not make that relationship through another human being. If you do not have intimate relationship with God as Father, check your sonship

Jesus is a brother to ALL the SAINTS. If you are a father to any saint then you are saying Jesus is your son. Lord help us!!!

The Jews said, "we have Abraham as our father". Later on, Jesus said "call no man your father". Lets not practice Judaism but Christianity !!!

[Brother John]

Joseph Gill, I guess we are on the same page,  just that I have decided to take a more entrenched position due to what “slight compromises” is daring to bring into the church.

I say this because you said Jesus is against men being CALLED …. fathers in the church. That’s all am trying to advocate for without being hypocritical about my entrenched position on “marginal lines” that are behaving as little foxes that destroy the vine.

But I also wander if the portion of scripture you referred to is didactic (giving a doctrine or teaching). Yes, the whole passage was instructing them, but I beg to differ that that particular phrase was an instruction or doctrine, hence didactic. For instance if Paul makes a statement like, “I, Paul who was once a Pharisee” and continues to give an instruction, I don’t think it necessarily make the phrase “I, Paul who was once a Pharisee” didactic in nature.

[Brother John]

Rev. Anthony Watson, the Catholic Church calls their priests Reverend Father – it’s their position and their title. They also have Reverend Mothers. And the pope is THE HOLY FATHER.

“Pope” (the papacy) is simply “papa” which is also simply “father”. That’s if my English is correct as an African.

You entreated Joseph Gill to break down language and you ended using more difficult words for the simple user.  Lol

[Joseph Gill]

Brother John, you make an interesting point about this verse. Perhaps we would better categorize it as the argumentative or the confessional style of writing. Paul seems to be sharing his heart with the Corinthians, rather than giving them instruction. But I would still assert that the Holy Spirit would not allow Paul in such an instance to say something genuinely contradictory to Jesus' teaching.

[Brother John]

I also entreat that we all do this in love if our common aim is to encourage all unto good works for the building of God’s Kingdom. I believe we should not seek to degrade any for diversity of opinion.

[Brother John]

Seminaries and Bible Schools do not provide or answer it all. And I believe a lot of harm has been done to even Bible stories by scholars more than the lay person. I have heard several scholars of the Bible and movies with strong research by the scholars talk about three wise men visiting Jesus at His birth, when the Bible only said wise men without giving any number. Bringing three gifts do not in any way imply three wise men. And now the number of men who erroneously think of three wise men are more than those who have seen the truth which does not need schooling to see it written/printed black and white in the Bible.

I have heard Bible Scholars  and movies with strong research by the scholars talk of Elijah being carried away by chariots of fire when the bible actually says he was carried away by a whirlwind.

I have heard Bible scholars say Mary Magdalene was a witch, when the Bible only adds her to the number of people who were healed.

I have heard Bible scholars and movies with strong research by the scholars talk of Mary Magdalene as the one who anointed Jesus feet with oil when the Bible talks about an unnamed woman of Capernaum (Luke 7:1, 37) and Mary the sister of Lazarus (John 11:1-2) who did this on two different occasions.

After it will be those who today will be referred to as Bible school or seminary people who did know Elijah would be taken away and even discouraged Elisha (the one not “schooled”, but in the spirit ) from following after Elijah. How many of the sons of the prophets in OT times did God call, and how many “unschooled” did He call?

I am not saying by this that Bible school or seminary is not necessary. All I am saying is that that is not just it. Interestingly, they are the same which have brought several schools of thoughts concerning scripture. Why can’t they agree on one always just tells that they are not just it. For every “schools of thought” on any issue, only one thought may be correct and all others wrong, else God is confused. So all these other thoughts that are told by the scholars are wrong. Hence the scholars are not always right and they don’t have it all.

And the Bible needs more spiritual interpretation than scholarlistic. Reinhard Bonnke’s  wote in his book, Evangelism by Fire that we have the Dis-annointed professionals (King Saul), the un-anointed professionals (David’s brothers), the anointed un-professional (David); and we all know who pleased God. He also added, which is very important to mention that, the best however is the anointed professional.

[Brother John]

Rev Watson, I read your post wandering whether you finished reading my post or understood me. Did I indeed speak negatively about Theological training or seminary; or I said they don't have it all. How did you understand my conclusion on the "Anointed Professional"? You may go over to read my post above.

Your analysis or illustrations wasn't also right. To be short, I will allow one who has had spiritual training to preach to me than one who has mere theological training. Reinhard Bonnke said when he went to the mission field he then found out that he had to unlearn everything he learnt from the Bible School to be able to achieve that which pleases the Holy Spirit.

How can you compare medicine, law, etc to church ministry as if it were a profession? Church ministry is not a profession; its a calling. They are on two different planes. One has to do  with the physical and the other is spiritual.

I have also observed that those who think seminaries have it all are those who came into ministry as a profession but are not called of God.

1 Cor 2:14 says the things of God can only be spiritually discerned. And 1 John 2:27 says man can not even teach us the the things of God.

And so I believe to achieve the status of the Anointed Professional, one must first of all be called by God, and then attend a Seminary which is not purely academics but full of spiritual teachers -  not the Bible schools where some professors do not even truly believe in Christ.

I hope any comments on my post will be done justly without neglecting any parts thereof.

[Pastor Jonathan]

   You're wasting your time with Watson.  He is a "Hard Case" and only God can crack that nut.

To think that men can teach concerning the deep things or mysterious of God without the Holy Spirit is pure insanity (mad man).  All Watson knows is what is on the surface, the milk without any meat. 

     Nobody is concerned about biblical history.  People need a right now word that God has placed in his word and has hidden it from those who do not operate with the power of the Holy Spirit.  We have to study biblical history to properly apply it to a word of revelation that is hidden within the scripture from those who think they have learned God by man's teachings.

     Matthew 16:17, "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."  Watson does not operate with any revelation only man's knowledge, teaching and training.

     Luke 3:16, "John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:  Watson does not have the Holy Ghost or any fire to preach, teach and unpack the word of God.  Can't cast out, can't fast, speak in tongues, has never dealt with witchcraft, etc.

[Brother John]

I will be glad if we don't personalize or attack personalities. Assuming all you are saying about our brother is true, then its our work to help him and not ditch him. We shouldn't as they say kill our wounded soldiers.

Bless you Brother

[Pastor Jonathan]

   Now Watson thinks he knows Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.  He can't speak a complete sentence in any of these languages.  Anybody can pick up a lexicon and reference biblical words without going to seminary.

    What good is knowing these languages when you can't give any meaning to the text so that a person can receive a word from God in their own (native) language right now? 

    For all those people who are not able to go to seminary, keep studying the word of God with the study material that God provides you with. 

    The word of God is a free gift and you can study along with the Holy Spirit.

[Brother John]

I agree with you my brother. There are lots of materials at our disposal for study. Whats important is that we do not pretend we are studying, we should actually study. Just as its convenient to use the calculator today, so do I believe we may not need to learn all languages but use the works that are available to us today

[Brother John]

Its good you appreciate that am not a seminary hater. I believe the best trained ones for ministry are the "ANOINTED PROFESSIONALS". My simple take on seminaries is that they don't have it all.

And I agree with you on learning the original tongues. But as a mathematician, I believe its sometimes easier and saves time to use a calculator than to work out everything manually.

And my serious submission is that doing all the learning without the Holy Spirit's control and guidance is useless and rather leads men astray. All the learned pharisees, Sadducees and chief priests could not grasp the one lesson the Old Testament was meant to teach them - there will be a messiah who will liberate all mankind from the fall of man. Yet despite their understanding in their mother tongue through which the prophecies came, they were expecting a deliverer (messiah) like moses or samson who will deliver them from other nations ruling them.

Learning the original language is good, but understanding the mind of God is not in just knowing original languages. The difficulties of these languages are also an indication that we need the Holy Spirit to show us what God really meant. The Greek word "kai" means "and" and also means "even". So when its used in a statement its not just knowing the language that helps us to know what God meant.

Jesus said except a man be born of water kai (and, even) the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Most translators used "and". But there is the other possibility that Jesus meant "even". And that's to say He was using water as a symbol of the spirit like he did in almost all other places when He spoke of the Holy Spirit. The use use of the same word has brought about lots of interpretations as to what John the Baptist meant when he said, Jesus shall baptize with the Holy Ghost kai (and, even) fire. And many are not thinking of the possibility that He was actually meaning the same thing with the other symbolizing one with an emphasis in a particular manner.

 

In our part of the world, we have seen men that I will compare with say, Smith Wigglesworth - unschooled but great tools in the masters hand. Some of these men have even been the ones to bring to light the ming of God concerning certain scriptures.

 

I agree Anyone who wants to preach must be well trained especially spiritually.

The showmen and entertainers assemblies are not church. A church must be built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles. They weren't jokers or extortioners. They were about the father's business

[Brother John]

Rev. Anthony Watson, the scripture you  quoted from 1 Cor has already been quoted by  Joseph Gill and has been addressed earlier.

And yes Jesus was a Jew and the CHRIST of whom CHRISTIANITY came about. His teachings were not primarily to the Jews but His followers of whom I suppose we all are. The scripture in our context here was directed to His disciples and not the Jews. The Jews liked religious titles and Jesus taught his followers not to follow suit – plain and simple. Do you think we should revere any man because he has studied the scriptures well or labored hard enough to call him Reverend? Maybe my African understanding of reverence in terms of religion is not adequate, else I think its just not right.