Do You Measure Success With Numbers?
FLOWING WITH THE SPIRIT INTO THE DEEPER THINGS OF GOD
This is a chapter from my new book “The More Excellent Church” which contains a prophesy that came through Pastor Nancy Dufresne while ministering in Fredonia New York. My comments added.
FLOWING WITH THE SPIRIT INTO THE DEEPER THINGS OF GOD. Saith the Lord: “Not every congregation will cooperate with the deeper things of the Spirit. But those who hunger and thirst for it shall be filled, Matthew 5:6. "That’s why your Word of Faith churches, those going with this move of the Spirit into deeper things have not grown to the size you would like or expect. For My plan is that a congregation will flow with the Spirit into the deeper things of God. And it’s difficult (not impossible) to move a larger number of people into a deeper flow. I have brought those who want to move further into the things of God, into your churches, don’t be concerned about numbers, be more interested in moving the congregation into a deeper place in God."
When pastors have a hunger for God’s way of doing and being right (the righteousness of God), God sends those of like hunger to their churches.
"Moving people into the deeper things of God can’t be done over night."
Kenneth E. Hagin known as Dad Hagin, talked about, at one point in his ministry, how he had digressed from the prophet’s office, giving himself more to the teacher’s office. God dealt with him and told him that he was going to have to get back into that prophet’s anointing. When he understood that he instructed his crusade director to set him up in the little churches, not to send him to the big crusades or the big churches. He said that he needed to get to the little churches because he can go further into the things of the spirit realm with fewer people, and can get back into some things, of the spirit, with a smaller congregation, than a larger one.
What does that mean? While a church is small in number this is the time to take advantage of it and move into the deeper things of the spirit realm. Because as God adds to our churches it won’t be as easy to move with the Spirit as it is when we are small in number. So we need to go as far as we can with the smaller number, so that as our congregation grows they will know how to keep moving. This way we are not learning how to flow, with the Spirit, as a large vessel. It’s easier to turn a row boat than it is a cruise ship, and in the spirit realm it’s the same way. It’s easier to move into the things of the spirit realm with those who know how to maneuver and navigate through difficult things, and through obstacles. We need to teach our congregations how to become proficient at operating in the spirit realm, and then as God adds to our congregation, we already know how to move into the deeper things of God, and the growth in number won’t hold us back from moving in.
Pastor Nancy asked Dad Hagin about Dad Goodwin’s Church. Dad Goodwin’s church was a New Covenant Church - it was a Spirit church. Pastor Nancy heard how their building only seated 350 people, and how it was packed out in every service for years. Church growth (based on the natural) experts say when you are 80% full you have to build on, or you won’t keep growing. The Goodwin’s didn’t know that, so they kept growing. Because they could only fit a certain number of people in that building, Pastor Nancy asked Dad Hagin how come Dad Goodwin never built a bigger building, because if he would have built bigger he would have had more.
Dad Hagin said, “Two reasons: One - he was land locked, they had no more room to develop that property. Number two - he said God never told him to.” See, this is where we miss it. You don’t build because people are coming, you build because God tells you to; unless God builds the house...Psalm 127:1 I believe the reason God told him not to build bigger is because they had such a good flow of the Spirit, and if they had built on they would have added more people, but they would have been people that wouldn’t have flowed with the Spirit, into the deeper things of God. THERE IS NO BENEFIT IN ADDING PEOPLE WHO DON’T PRODUCE FRUIT. When you have a portion of your congregation that won’t move into the deeper things of God, this holds back, or slows down the entire group from doing so. Listen, you can have a church full of people and still have an empty church. If the people do not hunger and thirst after righteousness they will not be filled. If you have a church full of people who are empty, no matter the numeric number, you still have an empty church. If the people you have hunger and thirst after righteousness they will be filled, therefore you will have a full church, no matter what the numeric number is.
Yes, our focus should be to get people saved. But that is done in the field more than in the church. The field is where we do the evangelical work, not so much in the church Matthew 13:38. But here, I am talking about building a congregation of people who hunger and thirst after righteousness. They hunger after God‘s way of doing and being right. Not everyone is hungry for the things of God. A church full of people who are not hungry for the things of God, is a church that is not going to move into the deeper things of the God. They won’t move forward into healing, increase, revelation, gifts of the Spirit etc., You have to have a hunger for the things of the Spirit before you can come into them. Adding people does not mean you have added hunger.
God said, “That is the reason Dad Goodwin was never instructed to build a bigger building.” He said, “I was more interested in the deeper places of the Spirit that I had for that congregation. They could accomplish more by being in a deeper place of the spirit realm than by being in a larger building. They would have grown larger in number in a larger building, but they would have diminished in spiritual impact.”
You can build bigger, and people will come, but it will be in vain. Unless God tells you to build, you shouldn’t.
Except the Lord build the house which is your life, business or ministry your labor is in vain Psalm 127:1. Growth is not measured in numbers. Growth of numbers is not always enlargement. Depth is enlargement. Some have promoted numerical growth and sacrificed spirituality. Those who measure numbers have no vision to see the depth of the Spirit.
People will say, “I want God to grow my business.” God is not against you having a bigger business but what will it do to your spiritual life? God won’t grow one thing at the cost of spiritual things.
Man doesn’t see as God sees. Men who measure success in numbers are bound to the natural realm. They will never move into the depth of the move of the spirit. We must keep our focus on the spirit realm, we must not be distracted by the natural realm of counting numbers. If you get distracted by the natural realm, the natural realm will trip you up.
The Spirit went on to say, “Pastors who are preaching just to congregate numbers are tripped up. The numbers have tripped them up. The natural realm has tripped up many of those I have anointed. They are so absorbed by measuring success by the natural realm that they have missed the steps that would have led them further into the things of the Spirit. The spirit realm of God is the place where all answers originate from. Those who are tripped up by the natural realm, (preoccupied by counting numbers) have never made strides into the realm where their answers are. Those sheep who need answers from the spirit realm, for their health, finances and other needs will never receive it in a church that’s tripped up by the natural realm.”
Listen, it does matter what church you go to. You can go to a church that is convenient to get to but if the Spirit didn’t’ lead you to be a member there, you will not find your answers of healing, financial breakthrough or a place to be restored in your soul etc. Your answer is not going to be in a place the Spirit didn’t lead you to. Your answer is in the spirit realm. The answer for your mind, marriage, body, finances, etc., is in the spirit realm. You must make sure you’re associated with a church that moves with the things of the Spirit, or you’re not going to move with your answer into victory.
The Spirit said, “So just be occupied with moving deeper with the things of My Spirit and leave the natural realm behind.”
We must quit measuring success with the natural realm. You can see the millionaire and billionaire list on television that the world calls successful. On the contrary, that is total failure because they use the natural realm as their only measure of success. GOD DOSE NOT DO THAT. You cannot live a spiritual life, and let the natural be your gage.
God concluded His Word with: "Don’t stay behind with those who are in the realm of failure, which is the natural realm. Rather, you keep moving forward into the realm of answers, which is the realm of My Spirit."
I Corinthians 16:9
For a wide door of opportunity for effectual [service] has opened to me [there, a great and promising one], and [there are] many adversaries.
There are wide doors of opportunity that lead to rooms in the spirit realm. These doors are effectual doors. Meaning the effect of going through these doors will be far reaching. They will effect those you are in association with. This passage says that there are adversaries standing at the door. These adversaries are there to keep you from going in. Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will break through the barricade and go through the door because they know their life and ministry depend on it. They hunger for what is in the new room.
The new rooms that we enter can be uncertain to us, it’s a new place with new everything. New strategies of the enemy to oppose us may not always be recognized. I have learned that is why I have to tap deeper into the spirit realm every time I enter a new room. Then I can see what I need to see for the new room. Knowing that I have entered a new room, now I seek God for light in this room. It’s like turning on the light switch so I can see what is in this room for me, as well as see the strategies of the enemy. I need to see my assignment in this room, I need to see where the enemy will try to get in, and with what he will use to try to debilitate my efforts to move with the Spirit in this new room.
This is a chapter from my new book “The More Excellent Church” which contains a prophesy that came through Pastor Nancy Dufresne while ministering in Fredonia New York. My comments added.
FLOWING WITH THE SPIRIT INTO THE DEEPER THINGS OF GOD. Saith the Lord: “Not every congregation will cooperate with the deeper things of the Spirit. But those who hunger and thirst for it shall be filled, Matthew 5:6. "That’s why your Word of Faith churches, those going with this move of the Spirit into deeper things have not grown to the size you would like or expect. For My plan is that a congregation will flow with the Spirit into the deeper things of God. And it’s difficult (not impossible) to move a larger number of people into a deeper flow. I have brought those who want to move further into the things of God, into your churches, don’t be concerned about numbers, be more interested in moving the congregation into a deeper place in God."
When pastors have a hunger for God’s way of doing and being right (the righteousness of God), God sends those of like hunger to their churches.
"Moving people into the deeper things of God can’t be done over night."
Kenneth E. Hagin known as Dad Hagin, talked about, at one point in his ministry, how he had digressed from the prophet’s office, giving himself more to the teacher’s office. God dealt with him and told him that he was going to have to get back into that prophet’s anointing. When he understood that he instructed his crusade director to set him up in the little churches, not to send him to the big crusades or the big churches. He said that he needed to get to the little churches because he can go further into the things of the spirit realm with fewer people, and can get back into some things, of the spirit, with a smaller congregation, than a larger one.
What does that mean? While a church is small in number this is the time to take advantage of it and move into the deeper things of the spirit realm. Because as God adds to our churches it won’t be as easy to move with the Spirit as it is when we are small in number. So we need to go as far as we can with the smaller number, so that as our congregation grows they will know how to keep moving. This way we are not learning how to flow, with the Spirit, as a large vessel. It’s easier to turn a row boat than it is a cruise ship, and in the spirit realm it’s the same way. It’s easier to move into the things of the spirit realm with those who know how to maneuver and navigate through difficult things, and through obstacles. We need to teach our congregations how to become proficient at operating in the spirit realm, and then as God adds to our congregation, we already know how to move into the deeper things of God, and the growth in number won’t hold us back from moving in.
Pastor Nancy asked Dad Hagin about Dad Goodwin’s Church. Dad Goodwin’s church was a New Covenant Church - it was a Spirit church. Pastor Nancy heard how their building only seated 350 people, and how it was packed out in every service for years. Church growth (based on the natural) experts say when you are 80% full you have to build on, or you won’t keep growing. The Goodwin’s didn’t know that, so they kept growing. Because they could only fit a certain number of people in that building, Pastor Nancy asked Dad Hagin how come Dad Goodwin never built a bigger building, because if he would have built bigger he would have had more.
Dad Hagin said, “Two reasons: One - he was land locked, they had no more room to develop that property. Number two - he said God never told him to.” See, this is where we miss it. You don’t build because people are coming, you build because God tells you to; unless God builds the house...Psalm 127:1 I believe the reason God told him not to build bigger is because they had such a good flow of the Spirit, and if they had built on they would have added more people, but they would have been people that wouldn’t have flowed with the Spirit, into the deeper things of God. THERE IS NO BENEFIT IN ADDING PEOPLE WHO DON’T PRODUCE FRUIT. When you have a portion of your congregation that won’t move into the deeper things of God, this holds back, or slows down the entire group from doing so. Listen, you can have a church full of people and still have an empty church. If the people do not hunger and thirst after righteousness they will not be filled. If you have a church full of people who are empty, no matter the numeric number, you still have an empty church. If the people you have hunger and thirst after righteousness they will be filled, therefore you will have a full church, no matter what the numeric number is.
Yes, our focus should be to get people saved. But that is done in the field more than in the church. The field is where we do the evangelical work, not so much in the church Matthew 13:38. But here, I am talking about building a congregation of people who hunger and thirst after righteousness. They hunger after God‘s way of doing and being right. Not everyone is hungry for the things of God. A church full of people who are not hungry for the things of God, is a church that is not going to move into the deeper things of the God. They won’t move forward into healing, increase, revelation, gifts of the Spirit etc., You have to have a hunger for the things of the Spirit before you can come into them. Adding people does not mean you have added hunger.
God said, “That is the reason Dad Goodwin was never instructed to build a bigger building.” He said, “I was more interested in the deeper places of the Spirit that I had for that congregation. They could accomplish more by being in a deeper place of the spirit realm than by being in a larger building. They would have grown larger in number in a larger building, but they would have diminished in spiritual impact.”
You can build bigger, and people will come, but it will be in vain. Unless God tells you to build, you shouldn’t.
Except the Lord build the house which is your life, business or ministry your labor is in vain Psalm 127:1. Growth is not measured in numbers. Growth of numbers is not always enlargement. Depth is enlargement. Some have promoted numerical growth and sacrificed spirituality. Those who measure numbers have no vision to see the depth of the Spirit.
People will say, “I want God to grow my business.” God is not against you having a bigger business but what will it do to your spiritual life? God won’t grow one thing at the cost of spiritual things.
Man doesn’t see as God sees. Men who measure success in numbers are bound to the natural realm. They will never move into the depth of the move of the spirit. We must keep our focus on the spirit realm, we must not be distracted by the natural realm of counting numbers. If you get distracted by the natural realm, the natural realm will trip you up.
The Spirit went on to say, “Pastors who are preaching just to congregate numbers are tripped up. The numbers have tripped them up. The natural realm has tripped up many of those I have anointed. They are so absorbed by measuring success by the natural realm that they have missed the steps that would have led them further into the things of the Spirit. The spirit realm of God is the place where all answers originate from. Those who are tripped up by the natural realm, (preoccupied by counting numbers) have never made strides into the realm where their answers are. Those sheep who need answers from the spirit realm, for their health, finances and other needs will never receive it in a church that’s tripped up by the natural realm.”
Listen, it does matter what church you go to. You can go to a church that is convenient to get to but if the Spirit didn’t’ lead you to be a member there, you will not find your answers of healing, financial breakthrough or a place to be restored in your soul etc. Your answer is not going to be in a place the Spirit didn’t lead you to. Your answer is in the spirit realm. The answer for your mind, marriage, body, finances, etc., is in the spirit realm. You must make sure you’re associated with a church that moves with the things of the Spirit, or you’re not going to move with your answer into victory.
The Spirit said, “So just be occupied with moving deeper with the things of My Spirit and leave the natural realm behind.”
We must quit measuring success with the natural realm. You can see the millionaire and billionaire list on television that the world calls successful. On the contrary, that is total failure because they use the natural realm as their only measure of success. GOD DOSE NOT DO THAT. You cannot live a spiritual life, and let the natural be your gage.
God concluded His Word with: "Don’t stay behind with those who are in the realm of failure, which is the natural realm. Rather, you keep moving forward into the realm of answers, which is the realm of My Spirit."
I Corinthians 16:9
For a wide door of opportunity for effectual [service] has opened to me [there, a great and promising one], and [there are] many adversaries.
There are wide doors of opportunity that lead to rooms in the spirit realm. These doors are effectual doors. Meaning the effect of going through these doors will be far reaching. They will effect those you are in association with. This passage says that there are adversaries standing at the door. These adversaries are there to keep you from going in. Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will break through the barricade and go through the door because they know their life and ministry depend on it. They hunger for what is in the new room.
The new rooms that we enter can be uncertain to us, it’s a new place with new everything. New strategies of the enemy to oppose us may not always be recognized. I have learned that is why I have to tap deeper into the spirit realm every time I enter a new room. Then I can see what I need to see for the new room. Knowing that I have entered a new room, now I seek God for light in this room. It’s like turning on the light switch so I can see what is in this room for me, as well as see the strategies of the enemy. I need to see my assignment in this room, I need to see where the enemy will try to get in, and with what he will use to try to debilitate my efforts to move with the Spirit in this new room.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rev. Darla Winn Lassiter on
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Amen!! Thank you for your comment. Blessings
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