Should a Pastor, Pastor a Church for free
Should a pastor that spends most of his time preaching and teaching get paid for what God has him to do? I know what the scriptures says about this, but would you pastor for free?
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Permalink Reply by John on
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He established the physical churches with the Apostles that every believer would be changed as Paul said. The church is the believers in Christ. I didn't say anything you didn't say about the church. I'm saying God DIDN'T PUT SATAN IN THE CHURCH! That is my disagreement with you. We the people put Satan there. Please stop with the God allowed thing. We have freedom of choice and we have chosen to let Satan in because of all our nonsense and false doctrines in these churches. We all know that God can stop anything but that is not His plan. What He allows is us to chose Him or Satan. But I'm not going to get into a debate of who's right or wrong. I just go by the Word and that's good enough for me.
God bless.
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Permalink Reply by Preacher on
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Yes he established them....but they are not the reason he came...Amen he came for the lost sheep of Israel...this speaks of the elect from before the foundation of the world...this was Jesus purpose and reason for coming...to save the elect of God befoe the judgment day and total destruction...not to build a church made with hands..but one made without hands..
God did place Satan in authority in the congregations...your disagreement is with God not me..
I've given you clear scripture where God speaks of this..there are many more Bro..
GB
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Permalink Reply by ShekinahLife on
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Mr Preacher: what do we do with historical documents such as this one from the archives of Rome?????~~~
In the literature of the Ante-Nicene Fathers there's a book (c. 210 CE) entitled Minucius Felix, the account of a Gentile Xian named, Octavius, who, whilst walking "along the shore (of the Tiber)," converts to Xianity a man named, Caecilius, "by very weighty arguments." Octavius has this to say to Caecilius (Chap. XXIX): Quote: For in that you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross, you wander far from the neighbourhood of the truth, in thinking either that a criminal deserved, or that an earthly being was able, to be believed G-d.
Miserable indeed is that man whose whole hope is dependent on mortal man, for all his help is put an end to with the extinction of the man. The Egyptians certainly choose out a man for themselves whom they may worship; him alone they propitiate; him they consult about all things; to him they slaughter victims; and he who to others is a god, to himself is certainly a man whether he will or no, for he does not deceive his own consciousness, if he deceives that of others.
Moreover, a false flattery disgracefully caresses princes and kings, not as great and chosen men, as is just, but as gods; whereas honour is more truly rendered to an illustrious man, and love is more pleasantly given to a very good man.
Thus they invoke their deity, they supplicate their images, they implore their Genius, that is, their demon; and it is safer to swear falsely by the genius of Jupiter than by that of a king.
Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for. You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners; and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses glided and adorned?
Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it. We assuredly see the sign of a cross, naturally, in the ship when it is carried along with swelling sails, when it glides forward with expanded oars; and when the military yoke is lifted up, it is the sign of a cross; and when a man adores G-d with a pure mind, with handsoutstretched. Thus the sign of the cross either is sustained by a natural reason, or your own religion is formed with respect to it.
End quote.
" I ask is there any body on this thread who can deal with the Historical J-sus????/
SADLY I know the answer...folks the door is closing and you do not SEE it shutting.
I ask a simple question How can the Bride make her-self ready IF SHE REFUSES to read the INSTRUCTIONS of Torah correctness...everything else is another" religion..is it not?
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What man says holds no weight with the bible...we are concerned with what God says...
the problem with your 2nd question is you're in error of scripture...the bride doesn't make herself ready...the groom makes her ready...
Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints
The bride is all holy men, the whole invisible church. ... Translate, "bright and pure"; at once brilliantly splendid and spotless as in the bride ...
Daniel 12:10
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
GB
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Mr Preacher writes:"The bride is all holy men, the whole invisible church."
You are very amusing young man very amusing...everything in context~~ The Bride is ~ I S R A E L~ period,.....scriptually speaking
DANIEL CHAPTER 12 Our present chapter, which concludes the book of Daniel, completes the prophecy that he received from "the man dressed in linen" about the future history of the world until the end of days. This prophecy was granted to Daniel in the merit of his mourning and self-affliction over the desolation of Jerusalem . The prophecy began in the previous chapter with the foretelling of the tangled history of the period of the Second Temple up until its destruction (Daniel 11:2-31), after which it continues with its highly allusive foretelling of the end of days (Daniel 11:32-45; 12:1-13).
"And at that time Michael shall stand" (v 1). Rashi (ad loc.) says that Israel 's guardian angel will "stand" in the sense of being stopped in his tracks and silent like one struck dumb when he will see how the Holy One blessed be He will ponder how He can destroy the great armies of Gog and Magog for the sake of small Israel . It will be "a time of trouble such as there never was…" (v 1). The rabbis said there will be trouble for the Torah scholars because of their enemies and accusers, and trouble for the whole people because of decree after decree and waves of robbers one after the other (Kesubos 112b).
The good news is that "your people shall be delivered" (v 1) – "the kingdom of Gog will be destroyed and Israel shall be saved" (Rashi ibid.). [Instead of worrying of present-day Persia will harm Israel , we should repent with all our hearts and trust in God.]
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake…" (v 2). This refers to the resurrection of the dead (Rashi ad loc.) – as well, of course, to the tremendous spiritual awakening and the widespread return to the Torah that we witness in our time among Israelite souls that in some cases have been buried in exile and cultural alienation for centuries. This itself is the revival of the dead!
"And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness (ZOHAR) of the firmament…" (v 3). This verse is darshened at length in the Zohar, which takes its name from here. The rabbis of the Talmud state that the category of "the wise" includes every DAYAN ("judge") who judges truthfully as well as those who go around collecting charity, while "they who turn many to righteousness" are those who teach Torah to little children (Bava Basra 8b).
Just like the angels whom Daniel heard asking the "man dressed in linen" – "How long shall it be to the wondrous end?" (v 6) – we too are more than curious to know the answer. The "man dressed in linen" replied most cryptically, "It shall be for a time, times and a half" (v 7). Daniel himself did not understand this answer (v 8), so we should not be surprised that we cannot either. As Rashi says on verse 10, "Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white" – many will try to give a clear explanation of these calculations; "and they will be tried" – it will be a trial to many to understand them; "and the wicked shall do wickedly" – the wicked will miscalculate, and having stumbled they will say there will be no further redemption, "and they will not understand". However, "the wise shall understand" – at the time when the end arrives. (Rashi on v 10). For "in the end they will be granted the wisdom to understand the allusions" (Metzudas David on v 9).
In the words of R. Saadia Gaon (on v 7): "When the generations have descended very low, then all these troubles will come to an end, but we do not know until when they will go on since the angel himself told Daniel that the matters are sealed and closed up, and we certainly do not have the power to understand the secret of these calculations of days and years…"
"Happy is the man who waits…" (v 12).
Shalommmmmmmmmmmm~~ HaShem works not only in the creation (i.e., nature), but also governs and orchestrates our present social system... and I do mean SOCIAL system. My point, in bringing this up is that ... there is only HaShem. Nothing else exists. There are not two vying forces in the Multiverse, like we find in Zoroastrianism and Xianity.
The Shema doesn't mean that there's only one Deity as opposed to two or three, etc. The Shema indicates that HaShem is alone and that there is only HaShem.
Ergo, the Jewish Sages are acting as agents of HaShem, whether one agrees with them or not. One way or the other, the Rabbonim are doing the will of HaShem and they are the recognized leaders and teachers of Klal Yisrael.
Everyone, without exception, is playing the role that HaShem has assigned to them in life.
The role of the Rabbonim is to sit in the Seat of Mosheh, if you will. HaShem's Ruach is upon them and their authority is clearly set forth and delineated in the Tanach, regardless of what the Neo-Karaite themselves wanted to believe or disbelieve.
One is free to dispute the authority of the Rabbonim, but in so doing one is denying HaShem's Kingship. If HaShem didn't want the Rabbonim to interpret the Tanach and enact halakhot, then ... they wouldn't be able to do so; HaShem would shut them down and that would be the end of that.
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Yes, I can agree with that...the bride is Israel...not National Israel..spiritual Israel... the body of believers all over the world...National Israel is spoken of in the story of the cursed fig tree...
GB
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Preacher writes:"Yes, I can agree with that...the bride is Israel...not National Israel..spiritual Israel... The body of believers all over the world...National Israel is spoken of in the story of the cursed fig tree...
GB"
Yes it is funny about that RE-PLACEMENT theology of the N.T. Everything is replaced or is plagiarism at best. Many problematic issues come forth; according to Torah not observing G-d's seven Noahide laws is a sin against G-d But Xianism refutes that (the only place it is seen is in the 'Binding and loosing' of hallakha in the discourse of acts 15:) Not blaming anybody here it is those who orchestrated this teaching initially. Christianity models itself as a religion of love..when Historically really it is full of blood and the rampant evil inclination at best.
In the seventeen hundred years of christianity, never have you seen Israel or Ephraim for that matter start a war...or beating people in the dark ages/ and during the inquisition to find G-d is an absurd position of evil hearts. Or Total arrogant ignorance.
You do not beat people to find G-d.
Only tyranny and totalitarianism uses those types of tactics..Like the socialcommiemarxist country we are quickly becoming uses against G-d's sovereign citizens.( Vote all incumbents out 2010~SRY moderator~ ~~~little plug for freedom..have to keep focused on the bigger picture)
So in relation to the replacement theme J-sus murdered off G-d to become G-d in that his whole existence was to replace Adonai's existence. Ipso facto by that fact itself it is the removal of G-d to become a god, to replace his Torah, to replace all the purity and holiness taught from generation to generation orally as was instructed by the Master creator.
Crazy Huh? Yet G-d created humanity, Humanity did not create G-d and so with that G-d created His Torah to be a preparation for His Bride Israel' first and foremost...and to the stranger that abides within its gates..also being observant and hallicly correct.
Yes it is all replaced to be more anti-Semitic.
Moshie's whole victimized story at birth is replaced with Yeshua's Victimized story at birth.
pharaoh tells the mid-wives to watch at the birth stone if a female let it live, If a male Kill it.
Yeshua's replacement is similar in that. Herod is ticked off because the Maggid lied to him so he decrees ~kill all the Jew boys...(nothing changes, does it?)
See that NOT National Israel dogma is Anti-Semitic~as Rome wanted nothing with the Jewish people..and it is the cause of wars and pograms and useless bloodshed..right up to the present times.
All because of power men like Mr"O" who cannot turn off the killing machine of their respective handlers..And so it is with religion.
Who ever can and will twist it to their own concern... Will.
Judaism has only eight sects since the Temple/Bet HaMakdash was destroyed whereas Xianism has well over 23,000 sects around the world all claiming the right in our own eyes theology... and in the last ten years divided even more and went from 500 to over 600 Demonations in the US alone...Something wrong with that picture...something very wrong with the whole picture IMHO...But then I am a student of history...Why ?...Because people who do not study history are doomed to repeat it..(George Santayana)
If anybody has not noticed we are in the middle of a Chemical Holocaust as we speak...and It will soon be time to make Aliyah for the Jews again, Histroy is repeating itself, and you cannot make Aliyah with J-sus as your guiding light. trust me The Rabbinu of Israel are rather Monotheistic..Shema Israel thing ~Deuteronomy 6:v 4-9
That is why Mr Preacher...I choose to seek out the Root of the word which is Torah and which is if I am correct what the Statement of Matthew 5:v17-19 was about " do not think I came to destroy the Torah but that I came to Walk it out..(As all Hebrew Sages do)
Hillel taught that To the place that my heart loves,there do my feet lead me. If you will come to my house I (God) will come to your house; and if you will not come to my house, I will not come to your house, as it is said " in every place where I cause My name to be mentioned, I will come to you and bless you" Exodus 20:21) (Tosafta Sukkah 4:3)
So you can eat cursed figs if you want...However Israel has some real nice Olives.
You might like this:
Ms__Ahuva_Gray__Inspiring_Journey_From_Ordained_Minister_to_Torah_O... -
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Permalink Reply by Pastor Darryl Maurice Conley on
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Prophetess Laura
I was reading your reply to to question" Should the pastor be paid" and I agree with your answer.When the church understand the blessing in taking care of the man or woman of God, this will not be a topic of debate..If we as ministers can get the congregation to see that everything good in their lives is in direct connection to being connected to a financial deliever. Let me explain, Jesus said in Matthew 10:1 he gave them (Aposltes,Pastors) power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease, vs.6 go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, vs.40 He that receiveth YOU receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me, He that receiveth a prohhet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward. Listen to Romans 10:14 How then shall they (the lose or congregation) call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a PREACHER...Money is not the matter, but souls are, but if the church can get an understanding of this, people will stop and think, "EVERYTHING GOOD IN THEIR LIFE IS CONNECTED TO THE PREACHING AND TEACHING OF THE WORD OF GOD."
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Permalink Reply by Mrs. Camilla Ward on
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yes i will there are churches out there that call themselves church and are not but just digging in for money to keep the congregation going but if it a small church and you have few member but some that don't have money and if you are a true manor woman of God money wouldn't matter it about the soul that you can saved out there!
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Permalink Reply by Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene on
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What you said is true, but not from the Pastoral standpoint, but the Evangelistic. No shepherd works for free, not even Christ Himself.
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Permalink Reply by Pastor Andru Kelly of OCWM on
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I believe what god has for each of us is for each of us. When god speaks to you as a person to obey the holy spirit. It is through that consultation each pastor finds the answer to that question. I am a Evangelist and do much public preaching. Not every church do I keep what is given to me. Sometimes god uses those funds to reach people that the church is not. My point is. The salary of the pastor may be gods avenue of the pastor carrying work outside of the church without there being a lot of hoopla from the congregation. Things that god has instructed him to do that the church whoud have a problem with. In the bible when the holy spirit gave instructions/power to move (Peter baptising 3000) it was immediately. The church seems not to be in agreement on many occassions when it comes down to the poor and other issues concerning non-christians.They must have 5 meetings sometimes to tell someone no! My pastor would sometimes do things without the church knowledge (which came out of his pocket) why I ask once? his reply was "god told him to tell no one" it was gods money and not his. But it came thru the salary granted by the church. I know there are some pulpit pimps and some MLM multilevel marketers that are packing them in like selling amway or prepaid legal service only to get the money. Not our job to worry about them. there is a payday they are not going to want to see in the end!
Good question .
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SEE this propaganda above [streaming free] It is part of the problem...not part of the Solution...
A man asked a question of importence for this midrash and we get Marketing as an excuse.
May Ha'Shem declare the Torah to the heart
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