If a Church Pays Musicians Would That Cause Greeters & All That Serve To Want Pay

[DR.Marietta Brown]

For over 25 Years we served two Pastors in every capacity faithfully & for many hours. We were always taught to serve & help to build the Local Church we were assigned to. Never was paid and worked many hours per week... The Senior Pastor is not paid every time they Pray, Counsel the Members , Pray & visit the sick. They may receive an offering or Salary but they give so much back to the Work of The Gospel.Also look at all the work & sacrifice of a Senior Pastor  to build & maintain the Local Church.Lets comment

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Simply Tanya, while you make some good points we dont totally agree with you. We would only want Musicians that are Members of our Church that they will have the heart & Spirit of the Ministry.. A Church cant  be equated with a Club..Pastors dont charge a fee to pray for you. to counsel you. Some receive Salaries but divide that by the 60 plus hours they work a week not to include the many hours people call them want to see them after they Preach & etc.. If a CHurch is a Mega Church and wants to pay there Musicians that is between them and God. I dont believe anyone including a Musician should run around  from Church to Church or any where playing  and not under the authority of a Local Pastor that watches for there soul and a faithful Member of a local Church where they can be mentored, held accountable  and there soul watched for. Thats why we have so many Musicians passed young and fell in some sad things as all others that are not accountable to God & a Local Church

[Pastor, Prophetess Ruth Johnson]

Pastor, Prophetess Ruth Johnson,

I am a church baby and as long as I can remember musicians have been on salary along with the Senior Pastor and the Administrator of the church.  For whatever reason we never questioned it or thought we should receive any payments and I have always been a part of leadership. The Office workers were hired full time in order that the church could be open almost 24 hours a day and because the Pastor gave up his job and time away from his or her family to be at the church or wherever he was needed for the members.  The First Family were to always be taken care of, like Jesus and His Disciples were.  They all gave up their every day jobs to follow Christ and Christ gave up His Carpentry to do the work of the Father.  However, the way things are now the church is ran like a every day business and that is not right, I think we have gotten carried away with the money in the church.   No one wants to be a Servant and volunteer their services in the church and allow the Lord to make room for their careers outside of the church on their jobs.

But that's what the Lord gave me.

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Pastor Ruth Johnson, we have a society of People that make more money than any generation but cant survive because they  will not build Gods House so God can not build there House.The Senior Pastor should be the first ones paid than the Church Administrator as there are funds, but with me that Person would have  had to have volunteered some in that position  until we could pay them if possible. Than if a Church is built up & can pay there staff thats the Senior Pastors decisions & call. I have heard of cases  Pastors still work on a secular Job but pay there Musicians full time. Thats madness. Many of the Musicians are not members of there local Church, they come to play and run around from place to place to pay a a job. What about everyone needing a Local Pastor to submit and watch for there souls.Even every Senior Pastor needs a Pastor and someone to be accountable to.

[Leslie Gardner]

A person should be paid their worth.  I'm amazed at the disrespect, qualified musicians get.  You can instruct people on how to greet people ( of course they must be spirittual ), but every person that is spiritual, has not been gifted and endowed to play an instrument.  In some cases, people have spent years and money being trained to play.  You can't just walk up to JUST, ANYBODY at the church and say, "Go up there and play for us".   It's a skilled position and skill is mentioned in the Bible, in referernce to the musicians; Psalm 33:3 " Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise."  We all know that God deserves the best.  Comparing a musician to a greeter is unfair.  Both positions are of equal importance.  However, some positions and jobs, require MORE skill and training.  Ask an usher or greeter, who can't play, to switch places with a skilled musician.........  Some things shouldn't even be discussed, because, "they do gender strife."  Pay a person their worth!

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Singers are trained many to sing should you pay the singers, the Praise Team . Every time you ask your Pastor for special Prayer & counsel should they collect there pay first . Every phone call should you pay the Pastor first . Many Senior Pastors are paid but they work  60 plus hours a week , no vacation pay, sick time  and if you didive by all there work. Money they  invest  back to there Churches & have invested to build the Ministries many have nothing. We need to get back to serving, volunteering building Gods house so God can bill our House. Pay a Musician and many times the Senior Pastor is on a secular Job.. If you dont pay them they dont play

[Joyce Spencer]

I enjoyed reading the responses, especially Leslie Gardner. No, we don't mind volunteering our time playing our instruments in church, but musicians have to work outside the church to make money for a living just like the other volunteers.  We also need to work outside church just to keep up with the required maintenance of the instrument.

 

The only musician that usually gets paid is the organ/piano player who is usually the music director. Drummers, bassists, guitar players, and woodwind, string & brass, etc. players don't usually get paid.  Not only did we spend countless hours ( or years ) practicing and studying music with or without a degree, we have spent $1000's of dollars on each instrument. A good quality horn can range from about $3000 to $10,000+, and most, if not all, require ongoing expenses like reeds, oil, cork grease, strings, etc.  A reed averages about $3.00 per reed & many times out of of box of 10, about 1/2 of them are good.  We also have to take our instruments back on a montly basis for "tuning up", as the springs & pads wear down.  So just like any volunteer in the church who works "in the world" during week, so do musicians. 

 

The jazz clubs, coffeehouses, festivals, weddings, etc. see the value of the skilled musician or see that the musician(s) can add something of value to the establishment or ceremony, so they are willing to pay.  The church may see the value of paying a skilled air conditioner repair person, if the AC is stops working in 100 degree heat or a plumber if a pipe is broken, but can function without the "extra" musicians.  So we basically go to work where people see the value and benefit of our skills and happily volunteer at church. Even after I recorded a CD to help support or make a living, maybe 10% of the people at my church purchased one. For all the writing, composing, hours in the studio & the $1000's spent, I only asked $10.00 for the CD.

Now, there are venues I will not play, just like there are some companies or offices I would not work or jobs I would not do.  Obviously strip joints, drug parties, etc are off limits. But, I also know that even pastors are working regular jobs outside the church, too, and our music director also works a regular job.

 

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Joyce Spencer .What people dont understand is the Clubs, Jazz Houses have more regular Money coming in than a Church. They can charge per person to come in , they serve drinks & food. A Church cant say if you dont have your cover charge dont come in and turn you away. So the Clubs &  all can pay more  to  Musicians, I am a Senior Pastor and Accountant that use to work with Churches . You can have a large crowd in Church but many times it is the faithful few that are consistent in there financial giving.. When we need Prayer, Healing, Counseling can we go to the Club & Jazz  Houses to pray & counsel us with Godly counsel. We need to teach People once again to Bring there , Prayer, Talent  & finances & Build Gods Houses Strong in our Communities. When a Church  can afford to pay people thats the Seniors Pastors call who to pay and when. If God calls you to be at a Church and to use your talent obey and be faithful rather they can pay you or not. Your Obedience will cause God to Bless us in Due Season. Money with Disobedience equals destruction.

[Joyce Spencer]

So true, but  I do know that not all "jazz houses" have more money than churches---it's a matter of what is more important to them.  For example: People will pay money to musicians for weddings & private parties because "they can't imagine the celebration w/out it". As Leslie indicated, they recognize the skill required for this & know they can't just ask anybody to just play an instrument like they can ask someone to be a bridesmaid for example. Some churches have more money than "jazz houses" and vice versa. And, may I add, if we need  prayer & Godly counsel, can we go to Wal Mart, 7-11, Chase Bank, etc.? No, but many church volunteers work there (including pastors) but for some reason, it is never questioned.

 

When I worked in corporate America & retail stores, I experienced more "evil" than I ever experienced in any jazz restaurant, cafe, or festival, etc.  If you note the first thing I stated was I & other musicians really don't mind volunteering our time in the church just like everybody else, but there is an expense involved in maintaining the instruments & just like some pastors & other ministers & volunteers, etc., we can't wait until the congregation "gets it" in terms of tithes, offerings, etc.  They work jobs to support their families, & so do musicians. 

 

Remember, tithes & offerings come from salaries church members earn working "in the world", not volunteering in the church.  If volunteers don't work jobs outside the church, not only do they not eat, but they have no tithes & offerings to give to the church.

[DR.Marietta Brown]

We can disagree but thats healthy dialog. Thanks for your comments.

[Leslie Gardner]

We are all supposed to be the "body of Christ".   Everything is not perfect, but the musicians play a vital role in the service of the Lord.  Run them away and keep being contentious regarding this topic and see how pleased the Lord will be.  Music is, and has ALWAYS been an important and integral part of HIS service.  Again, I reiterate, Psalm 33:3.  There seems to be a strong resentment towards musicians, their ability and the fact that some, are in a position, where they are being paid well.     If it is such a problem to some of you, TELL THE LORD ABOUT IT!   He'll give you the answer.  God does not want strife or contentiousness in the "body"!  Lift HIM up and He'll do the drawing and He'll take care of anything that's 'not like Him'.  What?  Cut off your nose, to spite your face?  Let someone that's unskilled get up and start 'plunkin' or 'banging'.  That would be disrespectful to the Lord and His service.  We are to give Him, the 'firstfruits' , in other words, the best!. It is good for the brethren to "....dwell together in unity"

[DR.Marietta Brown]

We are not having strife or being contentious. The comments have been written with Adults viewing there  thoughts. The  Bible  tells us to come together & reason. We are running  no one away from the Church,  we are helping the Church by doing what is healthy dialog , talking & communicating. The Church would not be so full of strife and problems if we  would come together and talk instead of thinking its such a sin to talk & discuss. We can all  disagree with out becoming disagreeable. Lets continue to  discuss and Blessing to all for there commentsIts  It is so healthy to peacefully talk & discuss what  bothers us instead of bottling things inside.

[Leslie Gardner]

Dr. Brown, you're right......about coming together to have dialogue and discussion...lol.  Much love and respect.