I think it is very important that preachers of today need to be seminary trained .

[Delbert Vaughn]

i say that because there are no more dumb folk in the church and i feel that it is a sad day for the preacher if he has somebody in the congregation that knows more about the bible than the preacher. Also i feel that if the pulpit is dumb then the pews are dumb.

[Pastor Melvin King]

I agree that all preachers need training, but not the kind that many of us pose. We go to school and we learn much, but we still do not see. We need SPIRITUAL TRAINING, WE NEED TO BE TRAINED ON HOW TO GOVERN OUR OUTWARD MAN BY OUR INNER MAN. We need to learn the best gifts. Who told any of you that you really know God? I for one need to know Him better. No man is an expert on God. We can only hope to become experts on men. Think about it...

[Rev. Joyce Irvin Harris, M.Div.]

In the 21st century, this should not even be a discussion. Lawyers must graduate from law school and pass the state bar examination. Doctors must graduate from medical school and pass the state boards. Ministers need to graduate from seminary before ordination. If one's calling is real, the "learning" will not diminish the "burning". And if it does, folk were probably serving up empty funk-fest in lieu of a spiritually nutritious meal. Lots of form and no substance. And I'm not against tuning, whooping or pulling it as seasoning. However, style cannot be all there is. Besides, most mainline denominations already require such. Black folks (and a few Pentecostal white folks) are by and large the only ones who don't require ATS* accredited seminary education for ministers.

Many of you have probably not looked at ministerial opportunity boards lately. Fewer and fewer churches are calling ministers who do not have a bonafide seminary education. Even those who say "bachelor's degree required/seminary preferred" will choose for a seminary trained pastor if the opportunity presents itself. Additionally, one cannot even consider being a paid minister in an institutional setting (university, hospital, military, corrections, VA) without a seminary degree.

As ministers, we need to avail ourselves of all the theological education we can get because there is so much more to ministry than preaching. In fact, I strongly recommend that ministers who intend to pastor take business school courses in leadership, management, and organizational development.

2 Timothy 2:15 admonishes us to "rightly divide" the word of truth. We cannot do that without knowing the original language(s), culture, content, and context. Otherwise, we'll be teaching and preaching about a camel having difficulty going through the eye of a needle with visions of sewing needles in our head.

* ATS = Association of Theological Schools

[Pastor Melvin King]

God bless you Sister Harris,
I fully understand your position. After having spent so much time and money acquiring your seminary degree, you most certainly want to be recognized for it. A pity it would be if a non-seminarian was regarded the same as a seminarian by the church folk. Never mind what the so-called uneducated think. You’ve worked hard, you persevered and you got yours. Now you fit the bill. You qualify for the ministerial opportunity boards all across the country. You don't need to whoop or serve up an empty funk-fest. You qualify. You meet the standards and qualifications required of your would be listeners. Bravo. These people need you, and others like you, who would meet THEIR requirements and qualifications.
But what of the man who desire not to please the people, but his desire is to please God? What of the preacher who have no will or desire to darken the threshold of a church building where God has written ICHABOD on the pulpit podium because the people having itching ears have decided to heap unto themselves pastors after their own hearts, and have rejected the pastors who are called after God’s heart? What of the preacher my dear sister who is satisfied with being called by God, and not by the high income “churches”? What of the preacher who seeks no greater reward than but to see people saved, healed, delivered, and set free?
The education is fine. I do not argue this. The degree is impressive and looks very pretty on the wall. The poise and dignity, the intellectual savvy, the well orchestrated articulation of words, and the skillful manipulation of the psychology of men, even the deep running rivers of philosophical thought are all a reward within themselves. It is evident by how sought after these things are. But these things does not a preacher make.
Some preachers/pastors have too much on their plate to attend a school. Time is very short. With all some of us have to do, school is completely out of the question. You were right when you said, “learning will not diminish the burning”. But I say, the lack of learning will not diminish the burning. The burning comes from God. And how is it determined that because a person isn’t in a seminary he isn’t learning? We learn. Truth be told, We wouldn’t need the seminaries if the men and women of God had a little faith in the God of whom they spake. We say the uneducated hides behind the whoop because he lack knowledge. We also say the educated hides behind the degree because he lack faith and power. Can’t we all just mind our own business? Could we not work out our own souls salvation with fear and trembling? I was talking with a young man on today at work. His pastor is the Rev. Dr. W?????. This man told me that he prays everyday so he can go to heaven. I asked him why. He said, so I can go. I said, if you have been born again, that’s a wrap. Only believe. I said, pray about something else. He said, like what? I responded, well don’t you need a place to live? Why not pray for a house. He said, It is a sin to pray for material things. I said, why? He said because it’s material. I replied, everything in this earth is material. No wonder you want to leave here. He responded, “And you don’t?” I said, I’m prepared to die, but I’ve got some more living to do first. He said, This is a hell hole. You call yourself a preacher, and yet you want to hang around here? I said I enjoy life because I am not afraid to ask anything of my Father in heaven, and you condemn me for it. But you are afraid to ask, and what you have asked for you continue to ask for. It would be very surprising to me if you got into heaven. He said, why do you say that? I pray for God to let me come to heaven everyday. He gotta let me come. I said, You do not believe…To make a long story short…after about 45 minutes of conversation, he learned that he had been believing wrong all along. He repented and was converted. I do not place the blame on Rev. Dr. W????. I only say that this man sat under

[Pastor Melvin King]

Sister Harris, I do not place the blame on Rev. Dr. W????. I only say that this man sat under his watch all these years and did not know the truth. He trusted that he was okay because he was in the Blah Blah Blah Church. I am a so-called unlearned man, yet my pupils are educated folk. I have aided seminary trained preachers in getting their start in ministry. I have served on the ordaining counsel of not one, but two very well accredited bible schools, and have ordained for their sake over 50 men and women for ministry. I do not boast. It means nothing. I only say, people do not qualify us, nor can the seminaries justify us. God does. Be blessed sister. Enjoy your degree. You deserve it. Only realize, You were just as qualified, and bonafide to carry this gospel before you went to school a you were after you received your diploma. You are no more or no less the woman of God you were when God first called you in the womb. Promotion comes from God. I love you Dr. Joyce Harris. By the way, that handle looks great on you. Seriously, I mean it. Wear it gracefully. It could be, that we need people like you in the seminaries to help equip others for ministry. The wisdom of God be upon you.
Pastor Mel.

[James Pierce]

Hello Rev, how are you? I hope all is well,

I believe that a person does not need a "degree" to spread God's word. I personally have not attended bible college & seminary, and yet I am studying Greek, biblical history, culture, customs. I will be just as qualified as the PH.D who graduated from seminary. John Wesely taught himself Greek, and did not have a degree. The apostles were unlearned, but learned from the Lord, and they did not receive any degrees.

I have my own reasons for not attending seminary. One of the reasons is that most seminaries have set beliefs that they believe in, and they do not give rooms for exploring other views that are against their views. I am comfortable self studying, which, in my opinion, is the best approach for me, and its paying off big time.

If one feels that seminary is needed, then to each his own on this, but one should not down anymore for self studying, for it is the Holy Spirit that teaches us all things, in all truth, no matter if we have a degree or not.

God bless

[Pastor Melvin King]

Brother Morgan, What are you saying? I see nothing wrong with Brother Pierce’s response. It was reasonable and on point. Is not the Holy Spirit the teacher? Has His liscence to teach been revoked, and if so, by whom? What difference does it make how a man comes to understand the principles of God so long as he does indeed understand? Is not understanding the principle thing? Jesus said, “In all thy getting, get an understanding.” He did not say that understanding is or is not going to be found in the seminaries A man does not need an excuse for not attending seminary. I have been as gentle regarding this subject as possible, and do try very hard to spare my brothers feelings. I shall continue to be gentle, and I shall continue to spare your feelings as the wisdom of God dictates at this time. Seminary training being a requirement for ministers is a myth. Does God require it seminary training? Well does He? Well?... All statements regarding ministry, and the kingdom of God should be biblically based. The word of God should be able to uphold the statement as to whether it be true or false. Now the statement has been made that all preachers should be seminary trained, but there is absolutely no scriptural basis for this statement. It is founded on the opinion of men who only think that they are better off for having gone to seminary. The foundation of this statement is shaky at best. The whole structure of it is altogether unsound. It is well understood that men feel that men should be seminary trained. But the real issue is (and I ask again) do God require it? Is it a requirement of God? If the answer is no, then who are we that we should judge another man’s servant? If God does not require it, why then do we? This speak I also to our shame. How dare we being mere men (only dust) petition a request of our brothers that God Himself has not requested, especially since He is the One who has elected them. It is God who does the calling. It is God who does the choosing. It is God who does the sending, and it is God who does the qualifying. God has not said you need a seminary degree. God has not said this. Man has. But I say let every man be a liar, and let God be true. Brother, have you been seminary trained? Is being seminary trained your sin? I think not. Likewise brother, neither is my not having been seminary trained a sin. There is no prooftext for not having attended seminary here. No man owes you an excuse for not going there. No man owes you anything, save love. And you owe him likewise. So then Brother Morgan, let us love one another; really. We are all family. Show the unlearned like myself the same love, the same regard, the same respect, and the same honor as you would those of your fraternity. Which is greater, the fraternity or the family? Selah. Because you have pledged loyalty to the unlearned does not diminish your loyalty to the learned. We are one. I’ll make a deal with you. I want make excuses for not attending seminary, if you don’t make excuses for attending. I love you Brother, with the love of God who knows us both, and has chosen and qualified us both.
Pastor Mel.

[Pastor Melvin King]

Brother Morgan, I have great respect for you, and percieve that you are a highly intelligent man. I do not argue that men cannot be taught of men, else our existence as preachers and teachers of the word would be futile. I only say that God has His way of doing things and we have ours. I am open to the idea of being taught by those who have consequently found their knowledge in the seminary halls. But I am equally prepared to receive the truth from the man crying in the wilderness also. Bro. Morgan, You are afraid of many things. Be not afraid. Is our Father afraid? Let not your fear of that which you do not understand torment you so. It is well. I do understand how you can be wary of people who say that God talks to them, and that they hear Him, especially if you are unable to hear Him yourself. You do have the ears for it though. You just haven’t trained them yet. It is hard to hear God when the traffic of men’s voices and the cares of this life are polluting our hearing with noises which gives God’s voice the sound of uncertainty. But I’m betting that someday you will hear His voice, without the aid of any outside stimulant. God is not revealing Himself outside the Bible. My brother, we say the written word speaks of the bible days. I say we are still in the bible days. The bible is still being written in our hearts on tables of flesh. Our activities are being recorded by the watchers. The angel of God records our works regardless if they are good or evil. Our words are power. This is why we are to be careful what we say. It is being written down, and acted upon. These words will judge us. I won’t go into this unless you really want me to. I agree that God never contradicts Himself, but he does say things to people that we do not see written in the word, but the thing said do not contradict the word. If it does, then the man who spoke that word is a liar. Be careful that this principle do not judge and find you wanting. You say you do not belittle God’s ability to do anything, Yet you mock His ability to speak to a man mouth to mouth who He has created with His own hands. If He spoke to Adam, He speaks to us. We are Adam. But because you do not believe, you cannot hear, and because you cannot hear, you are afraid, and because you are afraid you say unprofitable things against others because they say that they can hear. I have been in the midst of people who showed me no love because of fear. But what saith the scriptures? It says, “Fear has torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love”. Brother we know that God has not given us such a spirit. Many of these extrabiblical, prophetic revelations that some people lay claim to actually are documented. Is God to stop healing people, are we to stop casting out devils, are miracles to cease, are prophesies to go unsaid because we cannot record it in the Bible? God forbid. I can get as much use out of reading Huckleberry Finn as you can out of reading the bible if all there is to it is the letter, and the unpacking and observance of that letter and biblical accounts. All it is is a good story. But when the word comes alive and the Rhemma of God is made applicable to my life; when I become flesh made word, then I reap the true benefit thereof. But you are yet carnal, being spoiled by your own intellect and polluted with the soft watered down gospel that you have become so accustomed to because fear will not permit you to challenge yourself by God’s word and walk in the anointing and power. When have you healed the sick? When was the last time you cast out a devil? When was the last time you saw a real miracle? When was the last time you actually heard God call your name? Hmmm. After having spent so much time focusing your energies, on unpacking that rich text instead of trying to grab a divine revelation from a halo on the bathroom mirror it would seem you would have the good since to speak on only that which you know and understand, and to testify only of that which you have seen. Brother, you have demonstrated no faith in what has been written only in what you have gained from seminary. I have yet to see on these pages where you have exalted God half as efficiently AS YOU HAVE YOUR SEMINARY. Maybe seminary has BECOME…
Selah.
Pastor Mel

[Pastor Melvin King]

Brother Morgan, God has not stepped aside. He is totally interactive in the task of teaching men His will. Grant it, He has chosen some men to teach His word to the congregation. These men are His preachers. These men are the men in whom He has entrusted His mysteries. These are the men who can hear him. These are the men who are qualified to teach others about God; the men who hear God.
Also brother, why do you twist my words so? I regarded you higher than that. My respect for you has been genuine, and I had grown rather fund of you, but you have now proven otherwise. You know I never said that the bible is still being written by us. I said it is being written in us (big difference). I said the watchers, (angels that God has given charge overseeing our activities) are recording everything we do. There is a record kept. There is no way anyone could have thought by what I said, that I meant we were authors of the bible. Up until now I have enjoyed your words, but now I have grown weary of you. I shall answer you no further for the foolishness which has surfaced in you. The thing which you think will cause you to flourish is the thing which shall limit you. I am very sad for you. I had hoped that what you have gained in seminary would add flavor to what God has deposited in you apart from seminary. But alas, According to your faith... Some people are destined for greatness, and some will never be anything more than mediocre. You friend are a mediocre man with a closed mind toward that which is spiritual. I am saddened by you. When you are ready to walk with the sons of God, give me a holla. I'm out.

[Ryan D. McDonald, Sr.]

The Holy Spirit definitely does teach us all things. The apostles were brought and I think that it is important to bring up differences in us and them.
1. The apostles were taught the scriptures throughout their development. Their culture was one where they learned scripture throughout their development into manhood, where our development most times comes without such development.
2. They spent hours upon hours with Christ where he was able to instill preparation for ministry within them. And this in my opinion is what is good about seminary! Just being around preachers and being able to discuss and debate with other, even when there differences in belief allows one to sharpen because of all the discussions and debates!
In conclusion, I don't believe that seminary qualifies a preachers calling, but because the seminaries that I encountered allow for self development and want preachers to ably and adamantly argue their beliefs and interpretation, is a great help in fulfilling ones' call!

[Pastor Melvin King]

Brother McDonald,
In response to your No. 1
1. The apostles were taught the scriptures throughout their development. Their culture was one where they learned scripture throughout their development into manhood, where our development most times comes without such development.

Were you not taught the scriptures throughout your development into manhood via Sunday school? How about Vacation Bible School? We could even throw in BTU, Television exposure, Radio and the like. Our young men and women are as exposed to God’s truths as were these men and more so, because we have not only the Prophets which they observed and read, but we have the Apostles also. Stop making excuses. Be humble before God. He will exalt you in due season. The trouble with men is, they can’t wait on God. Because they are not patient or faithful enough to wait for promotion which comes from God, they seek ways to promote themselves.

In response to your No. 2
2. They spent hours upon hours with Christ where he was able to instill preparation for ministry within them. And this in my opinion is what is good about seminary! Just being around preachers and being able to discuss and debate with other, even when there differences in belief allows one to sharpen because of all the discussions and debates!
In conclusion, I don't believe that seminary qualifies a preachers calling, but because the seminaries that I encountered allow for self development and want preachers to ably and adamantly argue their beliefs and interpretation, is a great help in fulfilling ones' call!


is spending hours upon hours in seminary equal to spending hours with Christ? Or is spending hours and hours with the Holy Ghost equal to spending hours with Christ? I would say the latter is our best bet. For no man knows the mind of God, but the Spirit of God knows all things and it is He who teaches us the very mind of Christ. The apostles had the Law and the prophets. We have the Law and the Prophets plus the apostles which they didn’t have because they had not written it yet. But God provided for us with the scriptures so that the things which they learned were recorded for our learning also. So what they learned we know. The Church is builded on the foundation of the Prohets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament), Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief cornerstone. We are building fitly joined together in him. He filled us with His Spirit, the Teacher, so that we might understand His divine will. God has not challenged us to argue our beliefs and interpretations of His word. He only challenges us to believe it. Your call is fulfilled through obedience to God’s will of His design and purpose for you. No man can tell you what that is. Again, please dear brother, stop making excuses for attending seminary. I forgive you (LOL). No seriously though, It’s cool that you attend, but don’t lose touch with the teacher. There is no difference between us and them except the differences we make. There is nothing new under the sun. Let us not compare ourselves by ourselves. This is not wise. But most importantly, God is not different. He is still the same God now as he was then. There are some men who actually still spend hours upon hours at Jesus feet. Go with God my brother.
Pastor Mel

[Ryan D. McDonald, Sr.]

1. How can we compare our training to the apostle's training. Our culture is completely different. Let's be honest about it. We have far more choices and distractions, TV, radio, and there many others. Most of US were not forced to attend church, we many times go to church only because of the issues in our lives.

2. I never took spending time with God or the Holy Spirit out of the equation. Now the spent time with Jesus and with the mighty rushing! We should also! A great help to this can be found in attending seminary.

[Pastor Melvin King]

What has their culture to do with what God is doing in us? We do indeed have many distractions, but because iniquity abounds, grace doth much more abound. God's word and His knowledge is available in many ways and forms. This is the manifold wisdom of God. You cannot understand school teacher, because you WILL not understand. You want to be great, yet you do not understand. It is doubtful to me that you ever will...Too many excuses. When you are done making excuses for not being spiritually minded enough to seek undestanding I shall continue this deliberation.
Pastor Mel