Trinity Doctrine? Biblical or Catholic Teaching

[Kenon Veals]

There are many things that are in the bible and there are many things that are not in the bible. Historically and biblically, the Catholic church exists outside of the Christian kingdom. Jesus started only one church and that was in Jersalem on the day of Pentecost. The Protestant churches are the offsprings of the Catholic church having no connection to the church that Jesus started with the apostles at Pentecost. Did any Hebrew teach of more than one God that trinity doctrine poses? Did Jesus, who was born a Hebrew teach of more than one God as trinity doctrine says? Why do we have to look outside of the bible to establish a trinitarian view and doctrine of God? No where in scripture we find that there is a God the Son, or God the Holy Ghost. No where in scripture do we find that there are 3 gods, nor do we find, according to some, 1 god in 3 persons. Wow! so many things are leeched onto our belief system of God really makes u wonder are u truly worshipping the God of the bible. Where do we get that God is a person other than being Jesus? Does the bible say that the Father is a person or a Spirit? John 4:24 Does the bible say that the Holy Ghost is a person? I think we really need to take a look at what is taught by Jesus in the scripture.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

The disciples referenced here were probably NOT the 12---as they were not apostles and bishops etc...and doubtful this reference was to the 120 apostles and prophets from the upper room, or the 3000 souls that were added. Thus the reference here is probably not to the original "converts"--they are the Greek converts of Paul. The earliest church (ecclessia--called out ones--not religious organization) were called "the followers of the way", but were not called Christians. I'll have to check out why they brough Paul to Antioch--I'm not too sure about that one. Thanks for this reference Min. West.

[John]

I agree with you about the disciples not being the original 12. I believe when Paul was still known as Saul (Acts 9:1) he was still killing the Lords disciples for the high priest (Traditional Jews) and the Lord converted him and named him Paul. He was still in Damascus with the disciples there. Now Peter went from Joppa to Ceasarea to speak with a centurion name Cornelius and there when Peter was speaking to the Gentiles the Holy Ghost fell on all those that heard the Word (Acts 10: 44) and they heard them speak with tongues (another topic I would definitely love to talk about because I don't think its some angelic language we are taught about speaking in tongues, it was simple everyone could understand each others language like now I can understand Greek, Italian and etc.) Anyway I believe it was there that Barnabas was sent to Antioch and he stopped in Tarsus to seek Saul (Paul) Acts 11:25 and brought Paul to Antioch with him. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. Let me know if I have it correct or not. God bless you.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

Bro. John,
I believe in the trinity of God, 1st John 5:7. No-matter what the Greeks think or the Catholics, Apostolics, Methodist, Jew etc... Religion doesn't move me one way or the other.
God impregnated a Virgin by the Holy Ghost, So if the Holy Ghost is not of The God-Head, as so many have so eloquently stated, then it is from some other source, and that my brother would be satanic (witchcraft) if you will and God does not deal in that order.
Without a doubt in my mind (FATHER,SON,HOLY GHOST)

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

Are all Apostles? are all Prophets? are all Teachers? are all workers of Miracles?
Have all the gifts of Healing? do all speak with Tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1st Corinthians 12: 29-31
There are more evidences of one havin the Power of God (Holy Ghost), but it seems that a popular mis-teaching is that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not possess the power. But if studied in it's entirety 1sr Corinthians will teach us many things of the Holy Spirit.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

But Min. West, you say religion does not move you. Christianity IS a religion, just as any other form of dogma and worship. The belief that God has implanted some superior form of sperm into the womb of a woman certainly is RELIGION. Going to church every Sunday, taking communion on 1st or 4th Sundays, baptism etc. are ALL religious practices (most which stem from Catholicism and the teachings of Constantine--NOT God, or Jesus). I think we are very moved by religion --FAR more than we think we are--that's all rigid thinking, dogma, and doctrine are--aspects of one's religion.

Also, if you will read our comments carefully, we never said the Holy Spirit was not of God--it IS God, as He is Holy and He is Spirit. No witch craft involved here. Now I'm not suggesting by anymeans that believing or not believing these things makes one right or righteous. The bottom line is that NONE of us were there, NONE of it can be proven, and we believe it by FAITH. It doesn't really matter that the immaculate conception was VOTED upon by the Council of Nicea (Catholic Church) that it would be accepted as part of their religion. It is interesting that Jesus also never talked of being concieved that way. People believe it, and it's ok--it doesn't mean that those who don't take whatever white folks have taught us at face value are any less. The thing is how we treat people and how we express our love for God through our living and giving.

Oh, also I wanted to share that the word "Godhead" is a STRANGE greek word of which we have no true concept. It simply means "godlike", or in some ABSTRACT form, it means divinity. That's al! It is no indication of the character or nature of God, or the part of God that contains his THREE manifestations. Again, just know Sir, that we respect your views. I remember when I had them and was STRONG as you are. Time brings growth and greater revelation, if we are open to it. Plus, I figure, no matter how much we think we know, we're never too old or too saved to learn. Forums like this are good places to listen and learn from each other. I have enjoyed our discourses.

Bishop sjh

[John]

Thank You Brother Adrian, Amen.

[John]

You have definitely been blessed and grounded in God's Word. Praise the Lord.

[Evangelist Sybil Ann Wiltz]

Simply put

He is the FATHER cause he created us

He the Spirit put on the robe of flesh to redeem us as the SON Jesus Christ

God is a Spirit he is the HOLY SPIRIT or HOLY GHOST after the ressurrection from the dead

there you have it one GOD

[John]

Please expond on what you mean! If you are showing scripture as a meaning please explain heresy in that. How can scripture advance our own ideas when scripture is what God says not man. This is where you should go to verify not in man's text. Help me out with what you are so elloquently saying. Sometimes our intelligence gets in the way of what is meant. Thank you in advance.

[Napoleon J. Harris V]

The bible is the most powerful tool imaginable. Much like a hammer or a gun. Neither of which are heinous in there own right, when paired with people they can provide food and a means to provide shelter, but when paired with people who mean to do harm they can be used as murderous weapons. Likewise people have used the bible to justify slavery and killings. God didn't want them folks at Salem burned at the stake, and he darn sure ain't want our ancestors stolen raped beaten, DEHUMANIZED and shackled.
Long story short, when we use a text use it in context and capture the essence of what it says don't manipulate it to do our bidding. Fo example if I cheat on my companion with another woman, I can't tell her that she should deal with it and get used to it because it's God's will because all the patriarchs had multiple wives. Often times we are so darn idolatrous we make our own personal decrees and then we make the bible serve our needs by supplying proof.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

If GOd didn't allow it it would not happen, the children of ISRAEL were trated in like-manner, ad at the same time GOD prophesied it and allowed it, Now for someone to be so cynical and make such idiotic statements such as that well it shows who they belong too. Alot of things happen and we easily say that God doesn't want that too happen , and the truth is he allowed it.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

Did God not allow the children of Israel too go into slavery, captivity on many occasions, did he not through the prophets, prophecy that these things would happen, not buggin' rather being truthful, were not heinous acts performed by many in the Bible. God does not conform too our standards of him, rather he wants us to conform too his. Wake Up!