Praise the Lord, everybody!

I posted this discussion not with a made-up mind, but with an open mind because I have a teachable spirit. But, I also believe that the Word of God is first and final in authority and I am going to believe what God says despite what I think and feel, because He will have the last says so..

Now, we have been traditionally taught, at least in the Pentecostal/Holiness/Apostolic sector of Christianity (so sad I have to put it like that, but that's the way it is), and even in some non-denominational Churches, that you CAN, if you're not careful, prayerful, living holy, submitting to the power of God, YOU CAN eventually backslide back into sin and eventually into the world.. The Old saints used to tell me when I first came up, "baby, if you dont watch out for this devil, you can lose it (your salvation), as quick as you got it". Now, the problem is not with THE HOLY GHOST'S Power to keep you, but you submitting to His indwelling in you, and submitting to His authority over your life! But, the issue is not whether or not you can backslide and fall from the faith because the Bible makes that indication clear, but the issue is we have been teaching that He's married to the backslider based on Jeremiah 3:14.. but I'm concerned.. because although we know the Word doesnt contradict itself.. there are 3 other Scriptures I want to mention them...

*Luke 9:62 -- He that puts his hand to the plow, and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God...
*Hebrews 6:4-6 -- "... having tasted of the heavenly gift and then turn back, it's impossible for him to renewed again to repentance..."
*Hebrews 10:26-29 -- "... if we sin willfully, after knowing the truth... there remains no sacrifice for sins"

Can someone please help me understand this, because it sounds to me that we might be teaching something opposite to what the Word of God says about "backslidding"... maybe the Scripture in Jeremiah was to Israel, but of course that was BEFORE the Blood of Christ was shed, and now that there has been a sacrifice for sins made, that very well could have changed how God views repentance.. that once it is made, and taken back, there is no restoration thereafter... but I am open to all spiritual and biblically based views on this.. because I need clarity. I care not what you think, what you have been told, how you feel, what your denomination teaches, but let's stay with the Book... God bless..

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Ok,i'm ging to try to stay on point,and just using the bible,and some of what you pointed out.The bible has 3 scriptual descriptions of backsliding,
Proverbs14;14-to be disloyal or to deviate
jeremiah2;19-3;11-toward or with apostasy
Hosea4;16-to be stubborn or obstinate
Backsliding is a state of unbelief and rebellion against God's law.My study of this has lead me to answer scriptually.Once we except the Lord,mind body and soul,grace comes upon us.And with that grace,we begin to build a spiritual house,(1Peter2;1-16)with the Lord as our chief cornerstone,and although we're of the Lord at this point,we're still babes,with a lot of learning still to acquire.And at times,HE,as always never takes away our free will,and thats when the three descriptions of backsliding comes into play.1Peter2;8,says even having HIM as a cornerstone,some stumble,and thats when we think we've lost our salvation,but backsliding is more an action,than a desired destination,because if backsliding were a destination,i don't believe we would be discussing it,because it's not a place a christian would want to remain.1Peter2;10,italics not included)WHICH IN TIME PAST,NOT A PEOPLE,BUT NOW THE PEOPLE OF GOD,WHICH HAD NOT OBTAINED MERCY,BUT NOW HAVE OBTAINED MERCY.
So long story short,confessing our sin,as long as it's not repeitive,we have the grace of repentance,for our backsliding.
From the blood of Jesus,we acquired 1Peter4-TO AN INHERITANCE,INCORRUPTABLE,AND UNDEFILED,AND THAT NEVER FADETH NOT AWAY,RESERVED IN HEAVEN FOR YOU! I believed we're covered,hope i stayed on point,more research was done but tried to stay with scriptures.
Jeremiah 3:14,"Turn, you children that have revolted,’ says the Lord; ‘for I will rule over you. And I will take you, one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you in to Zion." Many Christians say that YHWH is married to the backslider, but is this scripture really saying that? Unfortunately, it is not. YHWH has given man free will, and all YHWH is saying here is REPENT, and THEN He will rule, and be their God.
If you are truly saved can you really backslide? How can one be unborn again or unbought with the blood of Jesus Christ?
Lance,

Man has free choice to do whatever he wants. Him being saved does not take away his free choice,
true but how does one get unborn again. As Jesus said His church was given to him and no man can pluck them out of his hand. So to say that you can "backslide" is to effectively call Christ a liar because someone indeed plucked that born again believer out of his hand. In the book of 2 Peter I believe it is, it says that if we sin (in context meaning continue in our sin) we never knew Him. So I believe it would be more accurate to say that a backslider may never have truly known Jesus in the first place. but i would love to hear your thoughts on it.
"If you are truly saved can you really backslide? How can one be unborn again or unbought with the blood of Jesus Christ?"

Lance I ask this question all the time to no avail, in many a person's haste to disprove what salvation is they never take the time to simply look at what it is not. And that is it is not temporary but eternal, and the price was paid by Jesus and not of any works of our own.

Luke 9:62 -- He that puts his hand to the plow, and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God...

If read in context would we not see what is really being said with this verse? The few previous verses give us a glimpse of what Christ was talking about, there was a man who FIRST wanted to go and bury his father "Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God." And then "61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

If a person is unwilling to immediatly leave there pervious life behind and follow Christ they are the one's not fit for the kingdom. But what does that word "fit" mean it means well placed, useful so we see that they are not uselful to the kingdom. And it actually has nothing to do with backsliding, they never committed in the first place.
Rev,

When Paul was preaching, he was approached by the Berean people. These people were very noble, and they judged everything by the Torah & The Prophets. Acts 17,"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."

This is what we must do. The doctrine of OSAS is no different. Briefly, let us see how this doctrine stacks up against Torah & The Prophets...

One of the tenents of OSAS is that we have eternal salvation, and we cannot possibly give it up. Let us see what Yehwah has to say about this.... First, we must take into account "freewill." Man has the free will to either continue in obedience, or discontinue in it.

Let us first start off in Genesis, where it all starts. Genesis 2:9,"And out of the ground the Lord God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

You have:

1) Tree of life
2) Tree of the knowledge of Good or bad

These are the choices that Adam and Eve have. The doctrine of OSAS does not have room for choices, being that, according to this doctrine, saved folk will always go to the tree of life without free will to disobey by going to the good and bad tree.

Yehwah brings the choices into effect by saying this... Genesis 2:16-17,"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Yehwah states that they could eat of any tree, except the tree of the knowledge of good or evil. If OSAS was actually true, then we would expect it to be decreed from the beginning, right?

As we can see from the mouth of our Father, we have choice to either obey by eating from the tree of life, or disobey by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

So, free has started in the first book of the bible, from the mouth of Yehwah. Let us go to Dueteronomy and see what He says in His beautiful Torah.

What I am about to show you is similar to what Yehwah gave Adam & Eve in th garden.. a choice to obey, or not to obey. Obedience brings blessings and life, and disobedience brings bad and death.

Duet 30:15-20,"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Yehwah has set before us "life and good(Obedience) & death and evil(Disobedience). OSAS clearly disregards disobedience.

Now, I know I said im going to be brief, but I am now finish my brief due diligence from Torah that OSAS does not exist. Now, its time to see what the Prophets have to say.. Preferably, Ezekiel..

Ezekiel really talks about people turning away from the living God, and dying in their sins. Many people say that we cannot give up our salvation. The Prophets prove them wrong.

Ezekiel 3:20,"Again, if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and commits injustice, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered, but his blood I will require at your hand."

His righteous deeds will not be remembered, and he will die in his sin. What happens when a person dies in their sins? I am sure that most of you on here already knows that. Yeshuah said whoever does not believe in Him, the wrath of Yehwah remains on them. This is a one way ticket to the lake of fire.

Ezekiel 18:24,"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."

If a righteous man turns from the living God, and transgress the Torah, then he will not live, and he will forfeit his salvation. What do you think happened to Saul? The holy spirit left him. Most Christians say that cannot happened... but it did!

Let us go to what Yeshuah has said concerning free will and choice to either abide in Him and live, or be cut off and die forever. John 15:6,"If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned."

Yeshuah also says that we must abide in His teachings to truly be His disciples. John 8:31-32,"So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Hebrews 6:4-6,"For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt."

It is impossible to come back to repentance once a person is gone, and made the decision to never come back. Even a geninuely saved person could walk away, because of free will, and never come back, and thus giving up their salvation.

Let us endure... Matt 24:13,"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Shalom Aleichem
Again James talking to you about this matter is like talking to a brick wall. We dont agree on the issue! I've agreed to disagree with you on the matter, please stop its getting old! And why would you post the SAME THING twice to two different people? That just makes NO SENSE!
Rev,

Well, you challenged me. Stop challenging me then ;) I wanted both of you to see it.
I said nothing to you I spoke to Lance about something Lance said thats it. James was never typed now you just being messy!
Rev,

I's not. Did you even read my response?
Lance,

When Paul was preaching, he was approached by the Berean people. These people were very noble, and they judged everything by the Torah & The Prophets. Acts 17,"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."

This is what we must do. The doctrine of OSAS is no different. Briefly, let us see how this doctrine stacks up against Torah & The Prophets...

One of the tenents of OSAS is that we have eternal salvation, and we cannot possibly give it up. Let us see what Yehwah has to say about this.... First, we must take into account "freewill." Man has the free will to either continue in obedience, or discontinue in it.

Let us first start off in Genesis, where it all starts. Genesis 2:9,"And out of the ground the Lord God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

You have:

1) Tree of life
2) Tree of the knowledge of Good or bad

These are the choices that Adam and Eve have. The doctrine of OSAS does not have room for choices, being that, according to this doctrine, saved folk will always go to the tree of life without free will to disobey by going to the good and bad tree.

Yehwah brings the choices into effect by saying this... Genesis 2:16-17,"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Yehwah states that they could eat of any tree, except the tree of the knowledge of good or evil. If OSAS was actually true, then we would expect it to be decreed from the beginning, right?

As we can see from the mouth of our Father, we have choice to either obey by eating from the tree of life, or disobey by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

So, free has started in the first book of the bible, from the mouth of Yehwah. Let us go to Dueteronomy and see what He says in His beautiful Torah.

What I am about to show you is similar to what Yehwah gave Adam & Eve in th garden.. a choice to obey, or not to obey. Obedience brings blessings and life, and disobedience brings bad and death.

Duet 30:15-20,"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Yehwah has set before us "life and good(Obedience) & death and evil(Disobedience). OSAS clearly disregards disobedience.

Now, I know I said im going to be brief, but I am now finish my brief due diligence from Torah that OSAS does not exist. Now, its time to see what the Prophets have to say.. Preferably, Ezekiel..

Ezekiel really talks about people turning away from the living God, and dying in their sins. Many people say that we cannot give up our salvation. The Prophets prove them wrong.

Ezekiel 3:20,"Again, if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and commits injustice, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered, but his blood I will require at your hand."

His righteous deeds will not be remembered, and he will die in his sin. What happens when a person dies in their sins? I am sure that most of you on here already knows that. Yeshuah said whoever does not believe in Him, the wrath of Yehwah remains on them. This is a one way ticket to the lake of fire.

Ezekiel 18:24,"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."

If a righteous man turns from the living God, and transgress the Torah, then he will not live, and he will forfeit his salvation. What do you think happened to Saul? The holy spirit left him. Most Christians say that cannot happened... but it did!

Let us go to what Yeshuah has said concerning free will and choice to either abide in Him and live, or be cut off and die forever. John 15:6,"If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned."

Yeshuah also says that we must abide in His teachings to truly be His disciples. John 8:31-32,"So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Hebrews 6:4-6,"For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt."

It is impossible to come back to repentance once a person is gone, and made the decision to never come back. Even a geninuely saved person could walk away, because of free will, and never come back, and thus giving up their salvation.

Let us endure... Matt 24:13,"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Shalom Aleichem

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