I keep hearing ministers express the irrelevance of the Old Covenant (Old Testament/Law) as if we can toss everything prior to Matthew's gospel from the Canon of Scripture. Ironically, even though we know the New Testament is inspired and serves as Scripture illuminating the New Covenant, there is no clear reference by many of the New Testament authors confirming that they intended their writings to be such. Contrast that with numerous instances where these same authors reference the OT; refering to it as Scripture.

How do we in good conscience condemn everything OT? Tithing pre-dates the Law, but we say it's no longer relevant because it's in the OT. What about the 10 Commandments that is the cornerstone of the OT Law? Do we toss that also? Why also do many 'New Testament' churches decommission significant NT rites such as water baptism and communion? And, in light of our loose nature concerning Christian observances, why do we complain when people opt to conserve finances by 'churching at home' via television or the web?

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Bishop,

How great it is to see you! May HaShem bless you greatly. We can blame the "spirit of irrelevance concerning the OT" on Marcion & Constantine. Both of these guys were anti-semitic, and dod not want anything to do with anything Hebrew. Marcion went on to separate the bible by adding OT to the Torah & The Prophets, and NT to the Gospels & writings. To answer your question more direct on what is the OT good for? Let us go to 2 Tim 3:16,"profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."

We cannot possibly condemn everything in the OT. Tithing does pre-date the Torah. Primarily, tithing was not about money, but rather thr produce of the land, and of animal possession. Christianity has changed it to money, money, money, but that's not biblical tithing. In the Torah, since the Levite Priests did not inherit land coming out of Egypt, they were to receive the tithe of the land from the people.

Many Christians will tell us that the 10 commandments are relevant, but the purposefuly leave out the keeping of the Sabbath. So, in essence, Christianity believes that only 9 commands are still in effect. According to Yeshua Himself in Matt 4, we are to live off of EVERY word that comes from the mouth of HaShem. We are to keep all of the Torah This includes the Sabbath. Even Hebrews 4:9 says that there remains for the people of HaShem a Sabbath.

I believe rituals are decomissioned because to them, its irrelevant. HaShem says that obedience is better than sacrifice. Yeshua said the same thing. It is those who does the will of HaShem(obedience to the Torah) that will inherit the kingdom, and it is those who are not obedient, will hear the words,"I never new knew you(Matt 7:21-23)." HaShem commanded ritual cleansing(Baptism) in the Torah, and Yeshua command it as well.

Communion is commanded because He says to do this in remembrance of Him, but what exactly is communion, and which feast day does it show? Pascha! Or the feast of Passover. All Yeshua was doing was showing the Passover, and that He of course, is the Passover lamb. When we carry out the Passover as commanded in the Torah, we are to do that in remembrance of Him.

Church at home has been the norm since the early Church. Jewish believers and Gentile believers in Yeshua would have Church services at home, and also in Synagouges. They only time they would really go out is when they head to Jerusalem for the feast days. People complain about these things because Church is a business, and they want to keep it that way.

Shalom
Anthony,

What about actually LIVING out the Torah?
Rev,

Yeshua did not come because we could hardly keep the Torah. In fact, no where in the bible did it say that the Torah was hard to keep(see Deut 30:11 & 1 John 5:3). Yeshua came because we broke the Torah. Yes, we have grace, but we are to still keep the Torah.
James you do error! There is certainly a place where it says that the Torah is hard to keep.

-Acts 15:10
Trevor,

Ummm... Deut 30:11 says its not hard to keep, neither is it far off! Acts 15:10 is not referring to the Torah, rather the yoke of man-made traditions.
Really? Quote Acts 15 and see if its talking about man-made traditions. Don't just assume and make stuff up.
Trevor,

You have to view it historically. Acts 15:10,"Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear."

You have to understand what yoke is. Compare Mark 7:8 to Acts 15:10. The yoke is referring to halacha of the Pharisees. It was their traditions that made the Torah hard to keep. Yeshua said HIS yoke is easy, and burden is light.

In other words, He will show us the correct way to keep the Torah, and not a way of tradition. This is not being made up, but rather truth. If you fail to understand what yoke meant here, then you will fail to understand the whole subject at hand.
James, the scripture says NOTHING about the traditions of the Pharisees. It clearly says what you don't want it to say:

Acts 15:1 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."

Acts 15:5 "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Where are these traditions that you speak of James? The ONLY issue that was mentioned was circumcision and to keep the Law of Moses. These interestingly enough, are things that YOU support! You keep talking about context, well, what does the scripture say? Choose your tranlsations, choose your references, I don't care what you bring. The TRUTH is that they wanted the Gentiles to keep the Torah and be circumcised and eventually the Apostles decided against because the HOLY SPIRIT said so!!
We must understand who was being spoken to in this conversation. In Acts, it is Gentiles that is given the word of God, people that were not used, or may not have even known the laws of God. Now think back to when all of us first came into the word of God. Would it have been wise to hit us with EVERYTHING that was in the word at once? Of course not. That is because we were ALL babes in the word at one time;

1 Peter 2
[2] As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

We ALL had to grow into this and become sure of what we learned in our own minds;

Paul says the samething below;

Rom.14
[1] Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom. 14
[5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Above the audience again are Gentiles. Paul is NOT telling them they can do away with God's Sabbath, for we know he kept ALL of God's laws. He is simply saying there are some that reguard one day (Sabbath) important and there are others that say ALL (Sabbaths) are the same, but each of us must come to this knowledge on our own.

So when we have the following;

Acts 15
[27] We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
[28] For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[29] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

We must understand that these were babes in the word, and they had to be given milk first and not meat.

Just think about this for a moment...

Was the above the ONLY things the Gentiles had to stay away from? I mean, how fair would that be?

What type of God puts such great demands on the nation of Isreal, and let's EVERYBODY else get away with only having to, "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication", but yet BOTH receive the same reward? That is not a fair God. And the God I serve is fair;

Gen. 18
[25] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Ezek.18
[29] Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
The funny thing is, the Nation of Israel rejected CHRIST, and therefore missed this word. Its not GOD's fault that they rejected HIS Son, so its not GOD's fault they are still adhering to these things.
Trevor,

James, the scripture says NOTHING about the traditions of the Pharisees. It clearly says what you don't want it to say:

Acts 15:1 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."

Your response truly shows that you really do not spend any time studying the Torah. There's no scripture in the Torah that says you must be circumcised to take part in salvation. Jews, historically, believed that one must become Jewish to be saved. You had to take part in circumcision to have a place in the age to come. This is not scriptural, but rather, it is the traditions of man.

So, what it says is something you had no knowledge of. Now you do. Will you continue to be ignorant and say there's no need for circumcision?


Acts 15:5 "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Notice the first part of the scripture,"certain sect of the Pharisees which believed." Not all Pharisees believed that circumcision saved. The Essenses did not believe it. Many Jews did not believe it.

Where are these traditions that you speak of James? The ONLY issue that was mentioned was circumcision and to keep the Law of Moses. These interestingly enough, are things that YOU support! You keep talking about context, well, what does the scripture say? Choose your tranlsations, choose your references, I don't care what you bring. The TRUTH is that they wanted the Gentiles to keep the Torah and be circumcised and eventually the Apostles decided against because the HOLY SPIRIT said so!!

They wanted to circumcision people because they believed that it saved. This was the issue in Galatians. Research it, Trevor, and do not let your Christian bias get in the way.
Anthony,

When Messiah came, the Torah was not abolished. What is your scriptural proof from Yeshua Himself that the Torah was abolished when He arrived?

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