There are many things that are in the bible and there are many things that are not in the bible. Historically and biblically, the Catholic church exists outside of the Christian kingdom. Jesus started only one church and that was in Jersalem on the day of Pentecost. The Protestant churches are the offsprings of the Catholic church having no connection to the church that Jesus started with the apostles at Pentecost. Did any Hebrew teach of more than one God that trinity doctrine poses? Did Jesus, who was born a Hebrew teach of more than one God as trinity doctrine says? Why do we have to look outside of the bible to establish a trinitarian view and doctrine of God? No where in scripture we find that there is a God the Son, or God the Holy Ghost. No where in scripture do we find that there are 3 gods, nor do we find, according to some, 1 god in 3 persons. Wow! so many things are leeched onto our belief system of God really makes u wonder are u truly worshipping the God of the bible. Where do we get that God is a person other than being Jesus? Does the bible say that the Father is a person or a Spirit? John 4:24 Does the bible say that the Holy Ghost is a person? I think we really need to take a look at what is taught by Jesus in the scripture.

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Ummmm, I can't say that I totally agree with your post here Sis Denise. You missed what I was saying completely, plus you said somethings that were in error.
Trevor You act as if we are denying the Father and the Son and the Holyghost? We believe it's all in him! Col.2:9
That scripture you quoted I totally agree!
Trevor: to answer your question about Jesus praying? Who was praying to who?
Do the prayers of Christ indicate a distinction of persons between Jesus and the Father? No. On the contrary, His praying indicates a distinction between the Son of God and God. Jesus prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other "persons." This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.

How can God pray and still be God? By definition, God in His omnipotence has no need to pray, and in His oneness has no other to whom He can pray. If the prayers of Jesus prove there are two persons in the Godhead, then one of those persons is subordinate to the other and therefore not fully or truly God.

What, then, is the explanation of the prayers of Christ? It can only be that the human nature of Jesus prayed to the eternal Spirit of God. The divine nature did not need help; only the human nature did. As Jesus said at the Garden of Gethsemane, "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matthew 26:41). Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that Jesus needed to pray only during "the days of his flesh." During the prayer at Gethsemane, the human will submitted itself to the divine will. Through prayer His human nature learned to submit and be obedient to the Spirit of God (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:7-8). This was not a struggle between two divine wills, but a struggle between the human and divine wills in Jesus. As a man Jesus submitted Himself to and received strength from the Spirit of God.

Some may object to this explanation, contending that it means Jesus prayed to Himself. However, we must realize that, unlike any other human being, Jesus had two perfect and complete natures - humanity and divinity. What would be absurd or impossible for an ordinary man is not so strange with Jesus. We do not say Jesus prayed to Himself, for that incorrectly implies Jesus had only one nature like ordinary men. Rather, we say the human nature of Jesus prayed to the divine Spirit of Jesus that dwelt in the man.
Trevor To answer your question about Jesus praying to the Father? Who was praying to who?
The choice is simple. Either Jesus as God prayed to the Father or Jesus as man prayed to the Father. If the former were true, then we have a form of subordinationism or Arianism in which one person in the Godhead is inferior to, not co-equal with, another person in the Godhead. This contradicts the biblical concept of one God, the full deity of Jesus, and the omnipotence of God. If the second alternative is correct, and we believe that it is, then no distinction of persons in the Godhead exists. The only distinction is between humanity and divinity, not between God and God.

For most trinitarians they do not understand how Jesus had two natures one divine and one human.
"For most Trinitarians they do not understand how Jesus had two natures one divine and one human."

Lets start right here: What exactly do you really even know about the Trinity other than the cut-n-paste you have done bashing the Roman Catholic Church, and accusing everyone else of being Roman Catholic?

Now, you answered this question with much commentary, but little revelation. at least you answered it though, I'll give you that. However, you once again avoided the scripture I presented before:

1st Corinthians 15:22-28 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

According to your doctrine, the humanity of GOD will subject itself to the divinity of GOD in the end. Is that right? If not, then PLEASE break this one down, because this scripture comes in direct conflict with the heresy of the Oneness doctrine. This scripture says that JESUS will submit to His Father and serve Him in the end, and that the Father will reign on the throne with CHRIST serving Him.
You are Wrong Trevor! Jesus is like no one else. He was human 100% and 100% God. The Bible says God cannot sleep or slumber. So when Jesus was in the Boat sleeping what role was he in? His humanity. Did God stop being God at that time? No. God is A spirit John 4:24 He is everywhere all the time!


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