Calling All Preachers

[Napoleon J. Harris V]

All right, let me be straight foward here. No one has an affinity for preaching particualry sermonic celebration then me! Well save maybe Rev. Dr. M.J. Simmons who is currently writting the much anticipated anthology on Black preaching. She is the quenn of Black preaching! With that being said I need to post a serious series of questions:

1.) How can one know when there sermon was effective? I mean really ought we assess our sermonic success via congregational interaction? Is it likeley that people can even really concentrate and commit to memory our life shaping discourse while screaming back "Amen" and "Say it" to us while simultaneously tapping, slapping and touching their neighbor? Moreover, all of us I dare say it have at some point either played church, watched kids play church, or have playfully chit-chatted about church enough to know that we can all feign, fake or play shout. What's to say that congregants don't do the same? Perhaps many are just conditioned to respond to certain organ chords, certain tonal inflections, and perhaps much of the pandemonium praise we elicit through sermon is crowd influenced mob behavior? In short, I am asking my brothers and sisters for a viable means for assessing the sermonic task, by viable I mean a tangible observable means, while I do beleive after doing the deed it ought to "be well with one's soul" in this petition however, I am calling for more than that.

2.)Speaking of celebration and it's effectiveness at eliciting emotive response from a congregation, I feel the need to pose this question: when is enough.....well enough? Do you beleive it is possible to over do it?

3.)Is it a sermon if I do not go to Golgotha and close at the cross? What If I am preaching from the Hebrew Scriptures? Or preaching in the Advent season, must I always hasten to the cross? I admit, I love hearing the passion narrative and I am planning on having 1 Cor. 2:2 inked indeliably on my body, so no one is more cross crazy than yours truly, however, I feel the need to raise this relevant question, is a sermon salvific if it has no mention of the cross. Let me give a bit more insight as to why this issue is a concern for me. In Christ I beleive God reconciled the world to God's self. No doubt, however the atonemnet theory (Jesus' death for our sins) is but one of the many ways of talking about Jesus' redemptive tenure here on earth. Might we as preachers find other salvific means of expressing God's love for us by preaching the full gospel. By full gospel I mean the multitude of ways in which God saves us! I am not dismissing the cross, not even, but what I am doing is pushing for us as preachers to take God and God's gospel out of the box we've cognitively configured to put Him in. I am hoping that we can open our eyes, ears, minds and spirits to the Holy Spirit that He may direct us into a fuller understanding of the significance of Christ's life. I beleive that there is much salvation in the birth, life, death, and Ressurection of Jesus! I am disheartened that we often Jesus' significance to one defining moment in time.

Your comments, questions, considerations are wanted, welcomed, and warrented

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Min. Harris #4, You are right about this thing not letting us post to certain comments. There was no reply button to your comment either. I think we done blew this jank UP! ROFL!!!

Nobody tipped me about you being in a Fraternity. It just came to me from out of nowhere... that's just how we prophetic people roll...it's kind of like getting a download from the spirit realm. I sort of KNEW you were my BROTHER! Whaz, up Frat? Now that is wild.

I knew something was up with the middle initial. I kept trying to sense what your name was, but came up with a blank. I guess that explains that. But I do sense a shifting coming in your life and ministry with experience, time and maturity. As my gifting to the Body (well really to humanity as I do not believe that righteous people are limited to the small confines of the Christian Religion--now that ought to start a HEATED debate in here--lol), but as my apostolic and prophetic gifting shifted and was affirmed, I began to use my middle name which is of Hebraic origin meaning "Gift of God".

I sense that same type of shifting for you as your spiritual journey and quest begin to help shape you to your purpose and as you take definition in the Kingdom. If "JR" denotes a son like as unto a father, then I suppose you will reap the full benifits of your decendents, and as you walk into divine sonship, perhaps you will replicate God in this earth. For the "whole creation travails even til now, waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God". We're waiting on you---not rushing you, but nonetheless, wait on you.

Black folks sure can come up with some names....more folks got names that they were not born with...I guess that's part of our culture. (:

As far as Deut 28--LOOK at the curses one by one, and then tell me what group of people other than African Americans fit that bill to the tee? We are the descendents, I believe, of those African Hebraic peoples of the OT. These are a mixed multitude of West and East Africans--yes the Achan tribe from Ghana, the Ethopians which still copmrise the Levitical tribe --the REAL "Jews", the Egytpians, etc.)

Clearly, those people who migrated to Egypt during Moses' time and left there with him when he defected from Egypt were of these peoples. They did NOT fulfil YHWH's purpose, so they could not have received the Deut. 28 blessing. Thus, their name and memory have been done away with as YWHW promised. That is how white folks could claim to be Jews (though they are not the original biblical jews) and fool the nations. Because the hebrews' name was wiped off the earth, perpetrators tried to assume thier identity. Let me know what you think about THAT!.

Have you read Nana Darkwah's book on the Africans that wrote the Bible? Perhaps you have, but if not, its a decent book--he gets a little redundant after the first few chapters though. He is of the Achan tribe. He asserts that Yeshua was a decendent of this tribe. He asserted that Yeshua was not born in Bethlehem. In fact, they claim to know his people. I don't swallow all of this, but a great deal of it seems to ring true.

Isn't it interesting that all the major deliverers of AFrican peoples were born somewhere else, and then sent to Egypt before their public ministry began (i.e. Moses, Joseph, Jesus)???? Hmmmmm...what do you think about that?

Finally, I would not exactly call that a rebuke Brother, but more less a recentering and refocusing on what you have already been taught. Let's call it a minor correction--lol. I understand your passion, and I too share that passion especially with regards to how we mess up people with a "magical" gospel that makes EVERY thing palatable.

I'll check out that site you mentioned....thanks. Death is something we all must face...it is a divine appointment. Ultimately, then it comes from God. How, why and when is often determined by us, or some other evil and unjust spirit (just as it was with Martin, Malcom, Moses, Jesus, John the Baptist, etc). We

[John]

Bishop Hyman I too love when you post but isn't that just a little play on words there with the Omni-Science. It's really broken down as om-nis-cience and only means having total knowledge and I don't think has anything to do with science which is man created. If you ever watch science on discovery channels these people are always trying to prove if God was right by SCIENCE and if they can't find proof then the bible must be wrong. You know I was as Self Realization follower once and it was all about science and proving things by science. I was caught up in that once and in Budhism and metaphsical science stuff. But I know that omnipresence means being present everywhere and omnisient means having total knowledge. I'm not trying to start anything because I truly believe you are blessed by God but I think that was a little play on words my beautiful blessed sister. May God continue to bless you.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Bro. John, you are right in this regard: Indeed, we do define omniscience as the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a character including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, etc. This would include God being the originator and possessor of propositional knowledge (knowing that, or knowing what), experiential (knowing how), and procedural knowlege (knowing how to do). Indeed, these all comprise SCIENCE = knowledge.

Were you aware that the word science comes from the Latin scientia, from scient-, sciens having knowledge, from topresent participle of scire know??? It is any system of knowledge which seeks to model objectivity. Thus, science means simply having systematic knowledge. God Himself is the Author of every system of knowledge in every realm, sphere and domain. Science was given to us as a means to understand the material realm, thereby understanding the nature of the God from whom all matter and spirit was created. It is a gift to us whereby we might understand "first the natural and then the spiritual. Science is both a body of knowledge and a set of processes for advancing that knowledge Is not God the epitome of ALL knowledge and all processes?

Clearly Brother John, there is no play on words here. The word omniscience was derived from the prefix omni (unlimited or multi) and science (basic and applied knowledge). Sir, Prophets and Apostles cannot afford to play with words as our words are weighty and create things rather quickly. Albeit, most prophets do play on words so as to confound the wise. Hmmmm...I think we have missed the principle because we have focused on the picayune. . With all do respect Sir, before you correct--CHECK! (: Blessed thanksgiving to you Br. John.
(:
bishop h

[John]

Bishop Hyman I love communicating with you as I do Brothers West and Harris. This is what I feel is needed in this world and doesn't happen too often that I see. I wasn't trying to correct but I was stating a fact and you were too (you're) correct about the word Science and it's meaning but Omniscience as a word per sey isn't broken down as Om - ni - sci - ence but as Om - nis - ci - ence, right! I know science is thought of as something and to some degree I do agree but when I hear and see these so called educated people (man's education) trying to prove whether the things in the bible are true or not based on science, I shake and at time get angry and some of these people are ministers, rabbis and the like saying things like "did this really happen according to the bible." Of course it happened because God said it did and tha's good enough for me. I stll believe people think the authors of the bible are those whose names the books are named after and I disagree. The bible was written by God through these people period and not by them. They were inspired (or told) by God (Spirit) what to write and they only said when speaking what God (Spirit) told them to say. These men and women weren't so inspired on their own to sit down and say to themselves " hey I think I'll write the bible or God's Word." I just don't believe that at all. I think in our society we put too much credibility on man's education and science in general. Do I feel it's wrong to get man's education, NO! But to hold it above God's knowledge that's where I draw the line. Bishop Hyman I thank you again for your educating me on things and your God inspired knowledg always and please don't think I try to come off as someone who knows something because in man's education I only possess an Associate's Degree from Pepperdine University and street edcucation from the streets of KCMO and South Central, LA and to me that education you can through in the trash compared to what God is/has blessing/blessed me with since I have let go and try to let Him. He is the reason I'm here learning from you and Brothers West and Harris. God continue to bless you and me by you talking and sharing with me.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

Preaching must first be inspired by God, where you get all of the science and what not is beyond me just as astrology, and mysticism. Jesus spoke on the same level too all, some could/could'nt understand, He used the most simplistic of terms to convey the message.
Psychology and the likes were not used, for he was not a deceiver rather a redeemer, How cen one tap the mind and heart of God if they never know it, (I am speaking of the Word)
Moses was not oratoricaly gifted by his own admission, yet he spake the mind, and heart of GOD. The disciples were not very affluent, yet they were very effective. I do understand what you and the brother are saying, yet I do differ from your opinions. If we seek too portray God we must cast aside ourselves, and let God do it. Though my grammar is sometimes (tis,tain't and tizz) that doesn,t leave one oratoricaly lacking.

[Napoleon J. Harris V]

Why do you feel God calls us? He calls us as individuals so that we through our individuality and our skills, talents and gifts my be able to persuade people to come into God's fold. So yes, we are obligated to be at our best and render our best when we preach and prepare sermons. That may call for an intergration into astronomy, psychology, or whatever. Jesus taught using agricultural (seeds and sowers,, and cooking disciplines (yeast).

Do you really believe that you know the mind of GOD???? Okay then tell me this why were we lifted from Africa and brought here as slaves? Why is Africa being delapidated? Why can't people who have served there time be given a clean slate and allowed to attend college with financial aide, or get good paying jobs? Why did so many people die in the tsunami? Why is God permitting genocide in the Sudan? Somalia? Iraq? Why do the good die young? Why why why why..... since you know the mind of God. Why are innocent children the number one sufferers from the AIDS pandemic? Why do innocent babies die period?

You DO NOT nor Can you KNOW the mind of God, you are not God. To assert that you do or that you can is BLASPHOMOUS, and IDOLATROUS. Why do you think you have all of the answers?

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Oooh--Bro Napoleon....a bit fiesty are we?? Hmmm.. you may not like this post too good. But ANY-HEW ---Calm down my brother...Take it easy on your Elders. I did not hear any one claim to be expert on the mind of God, nor any one claim to be God. One can know the mind of God concerning all that pertains to his or her OWN life and godliness. I know the mind of God on SOME things simply because He choses to reveal them to me by His Spirit, and I can be trusted with the mysteries He shares with me. He revelas more as I mature and more of my psyche is open to recieve those "down loads". Other stuff, I'm as dumb as a box-o'-rocks!

All I really need to know is the mind of God concerning the things that I am divinely assigned to accomplish in this earth...anything else would be wasted knowledge. God puts that knowledge in other clean and willing vessles...we must connect to them in order to gather that knowledge. God designed it that way. That is the nature of universe (all things are inter-connected in order to maximize their function) and of the Body of Christ (many gifts and administrations, but one Spirit). God's mind is seen in the totality of nature (and the logos --thought of God--became flesh). All the pieces have to come together in order to "SEE" God more fully. I beleive most people have no revelation of God because they are not willing to hear and see God in those around them. I dont' think any one here thinks they know ALL the answers--but somebody does know SOME of them.

By the way, Deut. 28 gives you ALL the reasons Africans were brought here in chains. Just as history repeats itself, so does prophecy. These aint' white folks in Deut.--they are africans! Just a lil something-something to get you diggin' and thinkin'. There ARE answers to all of your questions...those answers lie in different people's bosoms. Let us all be careful how we entertain "strangers' for we may be entertaining the angels (messengers) of God unaware!

I'll bet you have been asking "why' ever since you wuz a Kidd! LOL! It's good though Doc, it's really all good. We appreciate you--you keeps it live up in HERE!

Again, have a wonderful Holiday my Dear Brother.

P.S.--You in any frats?
Bishop

[John]

My Brother Harris you know you can get fired up and I like it. Yeah you know here comes my but (smiling)! But, God don't call all those that say they are called and I know you know this. Man we got false ministers out here providing wrong doctrine, no doctrine, self doctrine and all the wrong stuff. The one thing they have is the gift of gab! I don't consider you one of those but I know you know they are in this world. I know some! I know brothers that were out there with me and said they needed to get them a church to get paid now because it was time to give those streets up. I can name some but won't and I can name one in LA but won't and you can assume you know who I'm talking about and if you name him I still won't say "that's him." There are those from Theologian Schools that aren't sincere as yourself and I went to school at Pepperdine (so called Christian University) with a few and called them out when I was there in the 70's but at that time I was trying to better myself and leave from whence I came. Now I don't think any of us here posting fesses to have or know the mind of GOD but we all won't to get our point across to one another. Man I think all our agreeing and at times agreeing to disagree is beautiful and strengthens each and every one of us. I know it does me for sure! I look for Bishop Hyman, Brother West and your replies, comments or new discussions all the time because I know I'm getting something real from you and from the heart and not some you know what. I hope you three keep it up and don't stop until I drop. Peace and love to you my Brother and thanks.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Nope Minister--Moses wasn't skilled in oration. In fact, He did not trust God to skill nor gift him in this area. He requested that Aaron do the speaking since it was he who was gifted. This was not God's design, but the flesh and insecurity of Moses. This was more likely do to his dialect being slightly different than the other African Hebraic peoples (as he was raised to speak the ancient African langauge of Egypt). The truth of the matter is Aaron mostly spoke to the people because of his oratorical skills. And God allowed this!

I do not agree that Jesus spoke on the same level to all. He spoke very differently to his students than he did to the crowd. His own disciples were befuttled at his teachings and the religious aristocracy was confounded by it. As a master teacher, it is doubtful that he spoke to everyone on the same level. This would preclude him from being a rabinical expert. Jesus himself, was adept in all the sciences. He did not just get revelation from God--revelation is the fulfillment and illumination of information. He was well studied in the law and the prophets, and recieved revelation as to God's intention --that is, the spirit of the law and prophets (that's why he often quoted the law and Isaiah). Moses too was educated in all the maths and sciences. If both Moses and Yeshua were educated, then their followers who teach and labor in the word and doctrine should also be educated.

If we seek to portray God, I agree, we must cast aside something (mainly our flesh)...but we cannot cast aside our total self, as God must possess the self in order to be portrayed through it. We are not robots or puppets that God uses, rather He uses us as we actively participate with Him. Our participation however, is submitted and submerged into his divine plans and purposes. This is why Gideon fights saying "the sword of the Lord (of Hosts) AND of Gideon!"

Thanks for inspiring us to think and for your ability to stick to your guns (lol). We appreciate you. Have a wonderful thanksgiving holiday--and don't hurt yourself giving God the praise this weekend Bro. (:

Bishop h.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

God Bless you, and you have A great Holiday, God bless and Keep you also my sister.
AND I DID LOL

MIN. West

[John]

Bishop Hyman I'm replying (don't know why on the last page it didn't have a Reply To) on your reply about your missions while you're hear on earth and Deu 28. First you are full of God's knowledge, wisdom and understanding and you bring such good to those of us who know and are getting to know you and that is a blessing to me and all of us. I thank God for you.

I created a Discussion called "Are We All Related" and never get any responses, why do you feel that is. Is it because it will have to wake up our own racisms or make us think about our own hatred toward those that don't look like us and have persecuted us for generations. Because it goes back further than Deu 28 to Gen 6 and Noah and after the flood. How many people were left on the whole earth, EIGHT and of those eight only one found God's grace, the rest were fortunate because of Noah (my take). What I'm getting at is all of us came from those three men, Shem, Ham and Japheth and I mean all of us. If we could follow all our genes back I believe each of us would go back to one of them. So since we know this my question is ... (see I have to get it from you since I get no response from my discussion) why are we as people so caught up in the COLOR or so called RACE thing? Help me with this but don't you think the change in colors of skin came from where people migrated to and the evolution of change to the physical took place in humans. I believe there is but one race and that is the human race but now maybe different spieces of this one race. I'm just asking as someone ignorant that is trying to understand Bishop Hyman. Trust me I grew up in the 50's as a child that all of a sudden because of Brown vs Topeka started going to school with others and grew up where I couldn't do this or that because of my color and resented it. I had complete hatred and us to act upon it until God came into my life and I finally accepted Him. I'm personally tired of all the divisions we put on one another and this Black this and White that and Brown, Yellow, Red what ever. I don't think God looks at it the way we do, do you? Help me with this please! Thank you as always Bishop Hyman and I can't wait for your reply because I know it's gonna be awesome.

[John]

I thnk Jesus was above everyone's level from His birth from Mary! He became flesh but was not as we were I feel. I feel He had to become flesh not only to save us all by His sacrifice but to understand why we were as we were so going through all the temptations from satan and of course refraining from every temptation He was tempted with and seeing then how weak we truly are. He was (even though forced as all Hebrews to go through the schooling and education in that time) above all the Mosiac Rabbis and teachers and had them puzzled with His better understanding of everything than them. That's because He was/is God the Son and they had no clue or understanding. They couldn't see him (even to this day) as the Son of God but only some poor carpenter's son. How could He be so educated and more knowledgable than us, He never even finished learning what is to be taught by us (they must have tought and felt). I speak with Jews that follow and believe in Jesus and those that still hold on to Moses Law (which wasn't Moses in the first place but God's) and they are one anothers throats. Some of those that hold on to Moses don't have anything to do with those that they feel have betrayed them.

Anyway I think education is great as everyone says but I still think it is overrated when it comes to God's education. Man's books on science and everything else can't compare to the bible. Just my thoughts and I know, I know what that means. lol