I think it is very important that preachers of today need to be seminary trained .

[Delbert Vaughn]

i say that because there are no more dumb folk in the church and i feel that it is a sad day for the preacher if he has somebody in the congregation that knows more about the bible than the preacher. Also i feel that if the pulpit is dumb then the pews are dumb.

[Pastor Melvin King]

I see your point. All of you. I do not agree with all points made in the course of this discussion, but I do see your point. Still our words are mere babble if we cannot or will not open the eye of our understanding to each other. Our views are complex and our thoughts are contrary; the one against the other, but at least we have love one for another. I have heard many things spoken, and I do not judge. I admire your convictions, and while I do not agree with all, I do not regret having heard all. I'm trying very very hard not to be "COMEDIC" here Moreh. As sister Sherry has said, Knowledge is Power. I only say with knowledge we should get wisdom, Knowledge is dangerous without wisdom. It is wisdom that protects us from our "Knowledge". Peace friends.
Mel

[Pastor Melvin King]

I agree with you friend. The word is the standard, not our opinions or our views. Our different concepts of what the word is does not change what the word truly is. I say tomatoe; you say tamotoe. Regardless, the word is right. Not you, and not me. I shall take heed to your counsel and continue to hold up what is said to the word...
Be blessed.

[Odina Ben]

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[Minister LeeAndjae Wright]

Grace and Peace everyone,

I'm new to this site but I must say that being "learned" as the old people would say is good thing. I too did a few years of seminary, however it was through the teachings of my leader that I learned the most. We as leaders have to be careful who we allow to come in and feed the sheep. In Jesus' time he taught the disciples, and in the old testament as well as the new we find where people were discipled by the saints before them. Most of the people who I knew in seminary were "religious" but had no "relationship" and lived as the ungodly. Though they were educated in the Word of God they had no morale fiber and lived sloppy lifestyles and therefore they were able to "hoop" and give a good delivery yet were not effective enough to bring change. I said that to say this- yes schooling is essential but there were some things that I learned at home that the teachers couldn't teach me in the school and in these days when most leaders are teaching "what they believe" regardless to what the bible says then we as individual bible believers must have the holy spirit and the gift of discernment. The bible says in Provers 4:7 "The beginning of Wisdom is: get Wisdom (skillful and godly Wisdom)! [For skillful and godly Wisdom is the principal thing.] And with all you have gotten, get understanding (discernment, comprehension, and interpretation)."

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Min. Wright? How could you know how MOST all these people lived? These are some pretty serious allegations.... this really sounds like a sweeping generalization in the face of ample factual data. I enjoyed my tenure in Virginia Union's School of Theology, and I did not meet any preachers who I personally knew of who lived any more raggedy than the some of these so-called pastors, bishops, prophets, and apostles who are obviously anointed, but who also have a lil' game going on behind the scenes. Sin, pride and arrogance is irrespective of education level...so I am not so inclined to agree with your conculsion....and I cannot judge who or who does not have a relationship. Ungodliness is far more pervasive in the ministry at large than it is in the people! We can only endeavor to prophetically proclaim and teach the truth and plead for the grace to live nad BECOME all that we preach.

I agree with you in this regard --there are just some things that we must learn from our leaders that formal training may not afford us. However, I beg to differ.....Jesus taught his disciples, but he himself was educated and was an rabbii --a certified teacher. The prophets of old attended prophetic schools (it was REAL school), and were often mentored. OH that we had THAT kind of mentoring of character and training to use the gift with wisdom today.
Wisdom is indeed the principle thing...it is our training that gives us the skill, being submitted to those greater than us along with grace and experience gerts us godly wisdom. You have hit the nail on the head --SKILL and WISDOM. School is for the skill portion of wisdom, and teaching is for the our understanding of both spiritual and ecclessiastical thingsl We need it ALL and probably then some....lol

thanks for sharing.
Bishop H.

[Minister LeeAndjae Wright]

My point exactly. I'm not denoting anything as far as seminary or generalizing anyone. My comment was based on MY experience and yes Jesus was educated as were Paul and many others that wasn't my point there was a question asked and I shared and agree that we do need training. I am far from judgmental as a matter of fact my own Pastor once told me that I love the people of God too much and that I am too concerned. I do not despised wisdom nor am I unteachable I love being taught, no one wants an illeterate preacher...lol...the bind leading the blind...well we know we'll all fall into the ditch. However our walk an our worship must be one that was my point. In order for the world to see hope in the church we have to live what we preach and unfortunately I had the experience of being with people who did not live what the preached and the reason why I've spoken so passionately about is I almost became one of them.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Oh No, Dear Minister, I did not think of you as judgemental, unteachable, or aa one who despises wisdom....if you've learned more from your Leader than any body else, then it's unlikely you'd be that way anyway. In fact, those thoughts never crossed my mind about you, so you can rest easy on that regard. My point was that this raggedy life-style among the leaders is irrespective of education. I do not know how one can love the people of God too much--but I suspect it is a problem that many of us pastors would LOVE to have--lol...pray that He send me 15 people just like that Min. Wright---LOL!

I like the "our walk and our worship" piece....that'll PREACH... seems we are saying the same thing: become that word we preach, or let our walk and our worship become ONE.

[H Lee Clay]

“My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge” (Hosea 4:6 A)”
"And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?"
(Luke 6:39)

One of the most serious problems facing the Church in the 21st century is the problem of Biblical illiteracy. I am equally concerned about the issue of biblical illiteracy that has swept a large number of our local churches in this country. Especially in the inner cities and rural communities. Simply put, most professing Christians do not possess a sound and coherent understanding of the Bible, beginning with sound doctrine and general Biblical history. George Gallup of the "Gallop Poll" and Jim Castelli are quoted as saying in Christianity magazine, "Americans revere the Bible - but, by and large, they don't read it. And because they don't read it, they have become a nation of biblical illiterates". A recent survey of professing Christians revealed:

a. Fewer than half of all adults can name the the four gospels
b. Many professing Christians cannot identify more than two or three of the disciples
c. 60 percent of Americans can't name even five of the Ten Commandments
d. 82 percent of Americans believe "God helps those who help themselves" is a Bible verse
e. 12 percent of adults believe that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife
f. A survey of graduating high school seniors revealed that over 50 percent thought that Sodom and Gomorrah
were husband and wife .

Look again at what the Lord of Glory declares through the prophet Hosea,
"my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge."Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God,I also will ignore your children." (Hosea 4:6 NIV)

I believe that this survey speaks volumes to the issue of trained leadership.How many lives are being destroyed, how many people are stumbling through life, because they do not have the light of God's Word guiding them...?

In closing, I believe that "Biblical Illiteracy" is like a poison, wreaking havoc in the lives of individuals, in our churches, and in our communities.

Be enlightened; Be encouraged; Be empowered; Be blessed!

henry lee clay

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Jermin, I am very familiar with these studies. I keep up with the Barna groups' research quite often. But I wonder in this instance, WHO was it that defined this "biblical worldview"? As a scientist, I can just about imagine the reliability and validity of this "test". Who are those defiing what the core biblical beliefs are for ALL Christians? Certainly NOT "us"....In fact, the idea of a biblical worldview is by definition bogus as these 6 points are religious dogma of group of people. How one views these religious dogmas has little to do with a world view. A worldview is 1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world OR 2. A collection of beliefs about LIFE and the universe held by an individual or a group. For instance, whether one believes that salvation is by grace and works, by believing and confessing only, or by grace or works alone has little to do with how they view the world or the universe.

Also, could it be that those who have attended seminary know that there are obvious omissions and contradictions in the current canon we have, while SOME others may not be aware of this???? It would not surprise me if most of the black pastors surveyed (who are often under-represented in these studies) DO beleive in the omnipotence and omniscience of God, the sinless nature of Jesus, and the personal responsibility to evnagelize. Were scores broken down for groups' responses for each individual question? Since seminary is SUPPOSED to teach people how to properly exegete texts, think critically, and do research, it would stand to reason that those who have finished these programs would not just accept these dogmas as true because someone else said so.

I think we should be very cautious in interpreting results from some of these pseudo-scientific studies of the Barna group even though they seem to be THE premiere company doing research among Christians.

Interestingly, since Southern Baptist Baptist pastors' extreme scores skew the distribution of scores--topping off the scale, and only 35% of pastors of black churches scoring near the bottom; it seems this is less of a problem for US than the overall results portray. It is almost scientifically impossible to assess a biblical worldview from the entire Bible as it in itself is a compilation of various world views--and if we were able to do it, why would anyone think one could measure a world view among a completely heterogenous group of people from varied denominations and backgrounds?

I do believe however, that many pastors are fairly biblically illiterate, epsecially when it comes to interpreting scripture from its cultural, historical and socio-political context, and bridging that which WAS with that which now IS. I don't know that I myself am all that literate, but I am on a continual quest in my personal walk with God to know TRUTH--not Christian dogma necessarily--just HIM and HIS Truth, and I have disciplined and educated myself and continue to do so--that's the part I am responsible for. It is in being educated that I find out how much I do NOT know--this keeps me seeking! Honestly, some of this stuff I hear on the radio and tv is UNREAL -- it makes me VERY nervous--lol. Making the scriptures relevant takes understanding of the historical text, keen revelation from the Holy Spirit, and the humility and openness to confer with other scholars and prophets. Yes, you are right....we MUST pray.

[Ryan D. McDonald, Sr.]

Brother Moreh, it is interesting that you say that Christians do away with Old Testament, but in your question it APPEARS that you want do away with the New?

[James Pierce]

Moreh,

I am not understanding your question. What do you mean by," What is the worldview in light of scripture? Not Christianity Scripture?"

[Ryan D. McDonald, Sr.]

It APPEARS that you want the question answered only using the torah? I was confused by your use not Christianity scripture?