I think it is very important that preachers of today need to be seminary trained .

[Delbert Vaughn]

i say that because there are no more dumb folk in the church and i feel that it is a sad day for the preacher if he has somebody in the congregation that knows more about the bible than the preacher. Also i feel that if the pulpit is dumb then the pews are dumb.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Pastor:

Interestingly, I am seminary trained--and have not found my school at ALL to be a cemetary. In fact, I found it to be quite a refreshing alternative to my ignorance. It opened my thinking, challenged by faith so that I COULD receive revelation, made me a more efficient administrator, and taught me how to RIGHTLY divide the word. In addition, it taught me how to read scripture in its orignal languages making me more adept at properly interpreting scripture and challenging biblical tradition and error. What's more, I was exposed to the best teachers who greatly impacted my life and ministry.

I am not sure by what facts you categorically criticize ALL seminaries as "cemetary", but I believe this judgement, though perhaps made in jest, is unfair, inaccurate, and unkind. Hmmmm.... why don't those people gifted and anointed in healing call all the medical schools a "place for the dead"--and require that they need is a bible, a medical dictionary, and an encyclopedia. I do agree, we need a revelation from God--YES we DO! But revelation without education and proper information often leads to error.

I am about fed up with preachers---especially the so-called prophets, apostles and bishops who have NO real revelation. I cannot underscore the value to divine revelation---sadly we don't hear much PURE revelation. But I am also up to my neck with unsubject preachers perpetuating ignorance also. I also agree that commentaries can limit what God is trying to say to us--but education and anointing actually takes the limits off of us AND God concerning out ministries.

[Steven Perry]

Now Bishop this was a very strong argument and I can agree with you on this. You made some very powerful statements in this blog. But, I have a question to ask you though. Where did you go to seminary at.

[Angela]

PREACH!!!!!!

[Prophetess Teresa White]

Woooooooo Jesus glory to God speak speak speak.... God is setting his people straight and in order amen amen amen....

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Min. West:

The prophets of old WERE educated: they were taught and trained by other prophets, and often lived among them in prophetic schools. Jesus Himself was religiously educated.....Paul was well educated....Moses was EXTREMELY educated--haven grown up wealthy and the prince of a Pharoah....in fact, the writings in the Torah attributed to Moses are well laced with Ancient Egyptian/ African Traditional religions. Jesus himself, as prophet/apostle/and master teacher (raboni) trained and taught is disciples (STUDENTS) for 3 years.

You can be as anointed as a bottle of olive oil--one can only communicate any divine inspiration received from God within the confines of his or her own intellectual, religious, and cultural contexts. This is not to say one is more qualified to speak for God if he or she went to one seminary vs. the other--it simply means that one has taken responsibility to qualify him/herself for the calling that has been laid upon him or her. It also so says that those who CHOSE to be formally trained and educated have also chosen to sit UNDER authority, be trained, and disciplined and learn something--the SAME things pastors ask their members to do. Anointing does not make up for ignorance, just as education does not substitute for the anointing. There must be a balance--not a forced choice for EITHER OR.

I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I preached for 10 years all over the country without seminary degree. Mose folks didn't care--long as I gave them the word. During that time, however, I was WELL studied, and sat at the feet of my pastor and bishop for nearly 15 years (they WERE seminary trained, AND Holy Ghost filled and could just PREACH). But as God began to elevate me in the kingdom and in the church, more education, training, and discipline were required. I think the more rank one has, the more traning and education--along with personal servitude, devotion and anointing is required. Only in the house of God, can one occupy positions that that affect people's lives and welfare without ANY formal training.

Usually, it is those people who have elected, for whatever their reasons, NOT to sit down for 4-10 years to be formally trained who refuse to celebrate those who have. On the other hand, many who are highly educated, who may not have a great anointing, often call the uneducated ignorant and unlearned.

Interestingly, in most all other professional helping vocations, people must have degrees in order to recieve licenses to practice. But when it comes to the church--there should be no similar standards---just the anointing? This is froward and foolish thinking. There are many anointed to teach--but how many of us would send our children to private or religious schools to sit under teachers who had NO training, or no state license--but they were just anointed and called? The anointing alone isn't enough, else there would be no need for 5-fold leaders to equip and mature the saints to work the ministry.

It seems to me Bro West that many assume that Seminary teaches theology alone. This is untrue. It teaches pastoral counseling, finance, church administration, greek, hebrew, homiletics and the like. As long as I have been in ministry (27 years), it was not until my last year of seminary that I found out how ignorant I was in church adminstration and finance, and all of the legal matters concerning being a corporate organization. The anointing doesn't teach you that.

The Holy Spirit is indeed a teacher--but this is no substitute for God's order in the earth. The Holy Spirit does not need to teach me what others are already expert at--this is the beauty of the diversity of the Body of Christ. Just like every prophet of old, I must submit myself to those whose knowledge, expertise, or spiritual or secular rank is greater than mine, if I am to maximize God's call upon my life.

[Angela]

Bless you, can you mentor me. You said all I wanted to say, but lacked the educational insight to convey it.

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

CHIEF APOSTLE, AND BISHOP, And you have been trained and well suited. Confused if anything. In the order of God, I think not. The Holy Ghost, Guides and teaches in everything, according to the Word, Servant happens not to be a subject nor degree offered in your seminaries. It is most likely the fault of not reading and comprehending, that many do not know that the Apostles did not worry of the daily administration of the Church.. You most likely could have been taught some lies{God is truth, and every man a liar}. Too maximize GOD'sS call on your life submit yourself {mind,body,and spirit}. and see what they call you.lol they called the true Apostles un-learned men, after they witnessed the power{call} of God upon them. What does Seminary teach you that others in a book haven't all ready, the difference is truth and falsehood, lies. With God we learn too discern{as in know the difference} between what is God and not God...

[John]

Welcome back Brother West! Been a while since you, Brother Moreh and I have been here at the same time. Much love and peace.

[Bishop S. JaNine Hyman, Ph.D.]

Elder Scottt: you exlaimed,

"Why would I join a Church where the Pastor places to high a value on an education that I have not had the priviledge to get.and therefore limits how he preceives my calling or my effectiveness, be it in ministry or some other form of Church committment"....all I can say is WOW!

Why would you sit under a leader who FAILED to influence of his or her congregants to be all they could be? Since the heart of the black community and family has always been the black church, why would you pursue a leader who placed so little value on education (since this is one area that will lift our people)? I do not understand, and perhaps do not need to....but I would hope that people would not discriminate against me because I value education and migrate to another leader SIMPLY because he or she doesn't. Could you have generalized a few of your personal experiences and perceptions to all preachers who are educated, Elder? You make some good points, however. Not all who attend seminary are called to preach. By the same token, not all who CHOOSE NOT to go are called either. There are those with questionable callings irespective of education. However, this is not the issue that has been raised for this forum.

Since more preachers are NOT seminary trained than ARE, then this cannot be the reason that the church is not reaching out to people who need it the MOST (and we have NO way of knowing who they are except by the Spirit). To assume that those who need it most are those in the "poverty stricken inner cities" is stereotypical thinking at best. Conversely, I could make that same assumption: Maybe the reaosn why the church cannot reach out to the people who need it the most (the highly educated and successful) is because of our own unadeucated selves. Some of the most arrogant preachers I have seen have not been the most educated--that's for sure. Arrogance comes in ALL forms--lol--and when we see the educated being arrogant--it's just "educated arrogance"--the character flaw was there before schooling.

Most people in this country have had the opportunity or chance to educate themselves to some degree or another. It's just that they have either chosen other paths, chosen NOT to, or simply did not believe that they could do it. Not all of us who went to seminary were priviledged. At the time I went, I had been preaching 10 or better...and my decision to go was greatly influenced by my EDUCATED pastor and Bishop. It was no pic-nic Elder. I was BROKE....some days not knowing how I was going to eat. I had NO money to go to school--I borrowed it, and cleaned white folks' apartments after they moved out of them. Yup, the "national evangelist" cleaned toilets so she could go to school. That was not privilege--It was purpose! I did not agree with my leaders' pushing me to go to seminary but I was too afraid of God to disobey, and to presume I knew more than they.

Eccl. says that time and chance (opportunity) come to every man...many who did not further their education decieve themselves into believing they did not have the opportunity, chance, time or money (just as I did for 10 years). It all boils down to what people are willing to give up or pay to better themselves (whether that be seminary, college, bible school, on-line study, seminars, conferences or whatever).

What I find most disturbing about OUR people is that the church is the only place where their OWN people are criticized for chosing to educate themselves. What a pity. We used to celebrate our educated because we lived through them vicariously.

I suppose people will never agree on this issue....to each his or her own. The bottom line great Elder is this: If EVERY one would do EXACTLY what God tells them to do in preparation, sanctification, and dedication for ministry, what EVER that is, we would ALL be the better for it--wouldn't you agree? Thanks for sharing Elder.

[Angela]

When you are looking, where are you looking: When you are seeking, where are you seeking; If we are looking that means we are doing some preparation of our own. When Jesus was 12, I'm sure He knew all, but he still sat at the feet of Teachers, asking questions learning. The bible says people perish for a lack of knowledge. Knowledge consist of facts, ideas, truths, and education broadens your knowledge; Education gives you an abundance of knowledge. Education is bringing out of you that which is already in you. I'm not suggesting that its required to be effective, I'm just suggesting that the its good to get an abundance of knowledge. If you are preaching about the fig tree; or the Cedar of Lebanon, scripture doesn't expound on how figs grow; When you did deep, you find out more about the fig tree; Even the palm tree.

[Delbert Vaughn]

brother west i am praying for you...

[Pastor Melvin King]

Higher learning is the bomb! Im all for higher learning but is seminary really higher learning? I have ascertained to higher learning. I just didn't go to the cemetary. When I was a young preacher, about 24 years ago, I was very busy as an evangelist. I was quite popular and sought after. God had deposited in me a wisdom and understanding of His word that blew my mind. Before this, I had no understanding. I would go to bible studies, and church school functions trying to gleen as it were from others who I deemed to be great teachers. Yet my understanding was unfruitful. I was attending college at the time. I would be sitting on the side of my bed studying my psycology book, or business Law, or maybe anatomy and physiology. By the way I was named among the most consumate philosophers of my class. But my desire was for the Word of God. I would cry nightly. Like David, I desired His Word more than my necessary food. I considered going to seminary maybe I can learn there. But one night with my bible in my hand sitting on the side of my bed, I began to cry-out aloud for understanding of God's word. The tears were unstoppable. I was poured out like water. And when I was done pleading and crying, I said to my soul. I'm going to open this bible, and if I do not understand, I will not preach, as God had just called me to ministry. And when I opened the book, it was as scales had fallen from my eyes, and I recieved a revelation of God's Word. I was so excited. I wanted even more then to go to seminary, so that I could show them my "stuff" but God spoke to me and said, I shall teach you. What I have to show you cannot be mixed. So I didn't go. I was sought after by many churches to preach meetings, conventions, seminars and the like. But the men who I honored the most, began to blackball me because I was different. I would not conform. The young preachers in our area, upon being called to ministry were immediately recruited to seminary. I honestly did not have the time. between school and preaching, and having a LIFE, I just didn't see it possible. Besides, God told me not to. So while seminary is the right choice for some, it is not always the right choice for all. My potential has not been stifled for the lack of seminary. Seminary preachers come to me often for answers. Study and pray. That's all we really need to do. Seminary don't teach biology, physiology, child development, the way of a man with a woman, botany,ecthimology, medical science, anatomy and physiology, business, etc. These things also make a good preacher. Study and stay aware of current events, be focused and if you have any questions, Ask God. and keep asking him until you can hear Him. Some people use seminary as an excuse for not being able to hear and recognize the Voice of God. Love you Brother. Stay strong in the Lord. I do see a great man in you. I dare you to put down your outline, and let God open up the heavens and set a scroll before you when you preach, and watch His mysteries, even the deep things of God unravel before your eyes, and all that hear you will find the knowledge of God, and be blessed. Peace and be blesed.
Pastor Melvin.